Worried about ethics? Don't derail the thread, post here instead!

[AlexArts]

Dude, I don't want to talk to you.

Good. This is totally mutual.

stop

Stop to consider my every fucking word as attack to someone! That's what i want to say to you. Is it a forum? The place for discussions? Or the place for the narcissism?

Yes, but you attacked him before he did.

I've asked the question. Nothing more... I've asked about rape fantasies. Like i said this is a forum. The place of discussions.

It was and you know it.

I know that this picture should be a portal to the next boss.
But you saw what you wanted to see.
Made with hate, yes... But not to you. What is my reason to hate you? For your main story? For your thoughts perhaps? No, it's your prerogative to hate someone for his thoughts. I know pretty well why you are making this story.
I hate the characters of your story. You made them for the hate and i hate them. Guards. Damn, i hate them so much. Harkan... Bearded bastard. I couldn't find an armor that you used. And male models. I found Quiram's model only.

 

[messaline]

Yes, stop there , it's not your thread and I find it so interesting that I should be desolated if the mods were obliged to close it ...
So please ........ calmer !!!

 

[windar]

I must say, you artists are such a temperamental bunch. Not at all like we writers. We just drink too much and fall asleep over our keyboards

 

[Barbaria1]

This is a place for discussion of issues and ideas. It’s NOT for personal attacks. Let’s get back on track!

 

[Loxuru]

I must say, you artists are such a temperamental bunch. Not at all like we writers. We just drink too much and fall asleep over our keyboards

Or watch reruns of Seinfeld?

 

[Praefectus Praetorio]

I must say, you artists are such a temperamental bunch. Not at all like we writers. We just drink too much and fall asleep over our keyboards

Writers:

 

[Barbaria1]

Or watch reruns of Seinfeld?

Giggle snort

 

[Wragg]

Alright guys. ENOUGH OF THIS. Let’s be civil, please.

Funnily enough, I didn't start this thread to provide a forum for members to bitch at each other.

Like Barb says, cool it. If you haven't got something civil to say, go play somewhere else.

 

[messaline]

This is a place for discussion of issues and ideas. It’s NOT for personal attacks. Let’s get back on track!

 

[mp5stab]

Honestly, the fuck is Alex even still doing here? If he can’t bear the thought of wholly fictional women being tortured, then why does he continue to go to the one place specifically centered around fantasies like that? If he’s soured to the theme of erotic crucifixion, he should just go away. But he’s still here, still commenting and observing the art and pictures that ostensibly offend his moral sensibilities. He’s still seeking out this sort of erotica while belligerently threatening the people who make it. Hypocrite!

If he cut ties and still did his art, whatever. If he browsed here and didn’t post inflammatory stuff, whatever. But continuing to act like some twisted paragon of virtue while still looking at naked tortured women on here, and still rendering naked women on his computer is just ridiculous. Frankly, and I didn’t want to say this, the misogynistic and self-pitying attitude he carries about while playing with his digital doll collection sets off more serial killer red flags than the execution fetishes we share.

I really do not get the SkatingJesus envy. I don’t get why you find Andaroos in particular to be so terrible. You constantly complain that it’s just a seies of bad men torturing helpless women. Yeah. No shit. That’s the appeal. You bought a bunch of them and read them the same as I did. It’s a comic where women are whipped and nailed to crosses all the fucking time. It’s a fantasy! I enjoy it! I don’t have to think about the black plague or gangrene or stis or the smell. I can just embrace the fantasy!

I really wanted to be on your side, Alex. You made great art, you had your own style, you still do. You improved over time as you got the hang of the various programs you used. You even did a series involving me, which I was and still am very grateful for. But this weak-ass trolling has got to stop. You’re the only one causing trouble in here. There is certainly a discussion on the ethics of this sort of art to be had; just not the way your are having it.

 

[SkatingJesus]

Honestly, the fuck is Alex even still doing here? If he can’t bear the thought of wholly fictional women being tortured, then why does he continue to go to the one place specifically centered around fantasies like that? If he’s soured to the theme of erotic crucifixion, he should just go away. But he’s still here, still commenting and observing the art and pictures that ostensibly offend his moral sensibilities. He’s still seeking out this sort of erotica while belligerently threatening the people who make it. Hypocrite!

If he cut ties and still did his art, whatever. If he browsed here and didn’t post inflammatory stuff, whatever. But continuing to act like some twisted paragon of virtue while still looking at naked tortured women on here, and still rendering naked women on his computer is just ridiculous. Frankly, and I didn’t want to say this, the misogynistic and self-pitying attitude he carries about while playing with his digital doll collection sets off more serial killer red flags than the execution fetishes we share.

I really do not get the SkatingJesus envy. I don’t get why you find Andaroos in particular to be so terrible. You constantly complain that it’s just a seies of bad men torturing helpless women. Yeah. No shit. That’s the appeal. You bought a bunch of them and read them the same as I did. It’s a comic where women are whipped and nailed to crosses all the fucking time. It’s a fantasy! I enjoy it! I don’t have to think about the black plague or gangrene or stis or the smell. I can just embrace the fantasy!

I really wanted to be on your side, Alex. You made great art, you had your own style, you still do. You improved over time as you got the hang of the various programs you used. You even did a series involving me, which I was and still am very grateful for. But this weak-ass trolling has got to stop. You’re the only one causing trouble in here. There is certainly a discussion on the ethics of this sort of art to be had; just not the way your are having it.

You said it way better than I could ever do.

 

[AlexArts]

Oh, come on...
Let's all hug. And watching this funny video...

Чуть-чуть - a little bit

 

[poem21045]

I must say, you artists are such a temperamental bunch. Not at all like we writers. We just drink too much and fall asleep over our keyboards

Or we just never get around to writing...

 

[poem21045]

A different tack, if I may...

It seems that folks who engage in our particular (perhaps peculiar?) fetish (fantasy?) --i.e., crucifixion of women-- fall into two groups vis-a-vie their attitudes toward females. One group seems to relish the suffering of the women on the crosses from a sometimes ill-disguised misogyny. I base this on their diction ("slut" "whore" etc.). Now, I may be misreading their role-playing of such an attitude. In other words, they may be only acting like they hate females. That may be a macho thing. (Only their therapists know for sure!)

The other group seems to appreciate the female form and even the suffering from an aesthetic perspective, albeit mixed with a hefty serving of lust. A good example of this view would be Tarquinius Rex's "Beauty of Crucifixion" essay on the home page of Crux Dreams (http://cruxdreams.com/main.html).

Since this thread is about ethics, I would propose the following: from an objective viewpoint (not anything any of us can really claim, can we?), one would judge the former group (we'll call them The Misogynists) to be more guilty of a social pathology. The latter group (The Aesthetes), while probably not admired by the general population, would likely also not be labeled so deviant from the norm (whatever that is!). Indeed, an argument might be made that The Misogynists border on being dangerously anti-social.

One last word: in no way am I judging the morality of either group. I am only trying to make some conclusions about the behavior I've observed over the last decade-plus in the Crux Forums, the Crux Foundation, and the precursor Yahoo group, and how that behavior might be seen by the general population. Indeed, if I were to judge, the verdict would fall upon myself as hard as on others.

(I'll throw in a beautiful Makar-model pic just to make sure people read the above!)

 

[Praefectus Praetorio]

 

[mp5stab]

To be honest, the slut-shaming as a tool for humiliation is something that I personally enjoy as part of a crux narrative. Being called a slut and enjoying the humiliation doesn’t automatically make me sexist. I mean, I do think that it can be uncomfortable to confront those attitudes that make us worried, especially in a more fantasy-driven space like this. I don’t think it has to be misogynistic inherently as much as it is acted out to be. Besides, this whole “pretty gurls” vs “dirty sluts” thing seems more like a half-baked madonna whore complex than a working model of who the sexists are. I mean, crux has got those two to the extreme, from a naked slut who is paying for her loose ways in the most brutal and disproportionate way possible, to a literal goddess, who is put on the pedestal of the cross, and worshiped for her young, sexy body.

I think both are ultimately the wrong attitude to have about, like, actual women. And to me, the whole worshipping thing is much more insidious, because it’s not respect either.

Anyways, 4 nails, I want to be naked, make me fucking scream, humiliated and broken. And please, have someone sexy next to me. I mean, I do want to orgasm.

 

[messaline]

... It seems that folks who engage in our particular (perhaps peculiar?) fetish (fantasy?) --i.e., crucifixion of women-- fall into two groups vis-a-vie their attitudes toward females. One group seems to relish the suffering of the women on the crosses from a sometimes ill-disguised misogyny. I base this on their diction ("slut" "whore" etc.). Now, I may be misreading their role-playing of such an attitude. In other words, they may be only acting like they hate females. That may be a macho thing. (Only their therapists know for sure!)

The other group seems to appreciate the female form and even the suffering from an aesthetic perspective, albeit mixed with a hefty serving of lust. A good example of this view would be Tarquinius Rex's "Beauty of Crucifixion" essay on the home page of Crux Dreams (http://cruxdreams.com/main.html)...

I'm often wondering what are people feeling in viewing me fixed to a cross ...
I agree that if the woman is called a slut/whore , it's generally to show that she deserves her fate , but I'm not into this way ...
In fact, I've two ways :
in first , in all my Anjou'calvaries for example, I make these manips with a real person, tied to her cross into different background which are real calvaries ; by this way, I'm searching that I could be admired with this ulterior motive that I could, a day, get up to this cross and show me in reality to all people passing ... Effectively it's there a kind of self admiration for my body , hoping that people could tell me that I'm so nice in crucifixion ... and generally, it runs , for my great satisfaction !
in a second hand, I could say that I've some fantasies to be a lost warrior woman who is cruelly nailed to a cross, for the satisfaction of who, in fact ? The Misogynists ? The Aesthetes ? ... or both of them ?

Well, in fact, I think that the two categories are necessary in such a forum ; we've not to judge what is good or what is wrong , only what it can please to all different tastes ... I try to do ... I only deplore that I've not, in my opinion, suffisciently of comments to see where people are liking to view me ...
Perhaps that this comment could incite you , dear members ...

 

[old slave]

Perhaps that this comment could incite you , dear members ...

When I view a real naked woman on a cross, I first admire her beauty (and all women have some beauty) then try to imagine the agony she feels.

So maybe I have a foot in both the Misogynist and Aesthete camps?

But rarely does any story or picture where the outcome is mutilation or death provoke the idea "She deserved that!"

So when I know it is a real person, I hope and presume that it is for the purpose of pleasure even if it involves some pain.
If the purpose is to cause pain and/or death, I prefer any illustrations to be drawings, to ensure completely the divide between reality and fantasy.

 

[ShadowWolf]

I'm often wondering what are people feeling in viewing me fixed to a cross ...
I agree that if the woman is called a slut/whore , it's generally to show that she deserves her fate , but I'm not into this way ...
In fact, I've two ways :
in first , in all my Anjou'calvaries for example, I make these manips with a real person, tied to her cross into different background which are real calvaries ; by this way, I'm searching that I could be admired with this ulterior motive that I could, a day, get up to this cross and show me in reality to all people passing ... Effectively it's there a kind of self admiration for my body , hoping that people could tell me that I'm so nice in crucifixion ... and generally, it runs , for my great satisfaction !
in a second hand, I could say that I've some fantasies to be a lost warrior woman who is cruelly nailed to a cross, for the satisfaction of who, in fact ? The Misogynists ? The Aesthetes ? ... or both of them ?

Well, in fact, I think that the two categories are necessary in such a forum ; we've not to judge what is good or what is wrong , only what it can please to all different tastes ... I try to do ... I only deplore that I've not, in my opinion, suffisciently of comments to see where people are liking to view me ...
Perhaps that this comment could incite you , dear members ...

The view for me having a woman on a cross has two aspects to it. The first view comes from a psychological perspective. I always find fascinating the psychological aspect of the woman attached to cross to be the most important because it is the aspect of which I think controls the experience they go through with the cross. If their mind finds a way to endure being on the cross (which can occur in several different forms) it makes it very interesting to follow and see how it plays out. Also the mind of the people who are responsible for putting the woman through the process of the cross is another contributing factor. Their ethics and morality in regards to how they treat the woman I think can affect their own feelings of ethics and morality to the situation of a woman being put on the cross. This leads to the second part which is the physical status of the body. I see the physical body reacting to the status of their mind and the mind of the people responsible for putting her on the cross. If the people who put her on the cross have a state of mind that has loose morals and ethics that result in abuse of the body beyond which a person can endure and maintain with their mind it can be hard to keep an interest in the current situation. However there could be some people who have a set of morals and ethics this could cause them to second guess what they are doing. This could result in the interest being maintained because their morals and ethics can cause them to think about what is going on not only in the story but also in their own life. Factors that can contribute to this are the descriptive words providing a picture of what the woman is going through and actual pictures to accompany the story. I always find the words used to describe the woman going through the process of being put on the cross to have a greater impact because they have a more emotional impact which can affect our morals and ethics.

 

[messaline]

When I view a real naked woman on a cross, I first admire her beauty (and all women have some beauty) then try to imagine the agony she feels.

So maybe I have a foot in both the Misogynist and Aesthete camps?.

Oh, perhaps that each of us are like that , I think ...

So when I know it is a real person, I hope and presume that it is for the purpose of pleasure even if it involves some pain.
If the purpose is to cause pain and/or death, I prefer any illustrations to be drawings, to ensure completely the divide between reality and fantasy.

Yes, it could be understood ... But I warrant you that when I'm crucified (roped) in my reality , I am submitted to some pain but quickly the pleasure is coming ! Otherwise, it would have non sense ...