The Price of Defeat

worthless fem said:

And us girls (in spite of our protests) LIKE being treated that way.

Think of the Sabine women for instance!

Click to expand...

In English "rape" has the archaic meaning of "kidnap." Which is why depictions of the Sabine women, or the Daughters of Leucippus, frequently show naked women, but I’ve never seen one that qualifies as hardcore pornography.

Much to my surprise, actually.

Apostate said:

In English "rape" has the archaic meaning of "kidnap." Which is why depictions of the Sabine women, or the Daughters of Leucippus, frequently show naked women, but I’ve never seen one that qualifies as hardcore pornography.

Much to my surprise, actually.

Click to expand...

Brings to mind the musical Seven Brides for Seven Brothers, and the song "Sobbin' Women" (a corruption of the phrase "Sabine women").

Sobbin' Women Lyrics

ADAM
Tell ya 'bout them sobbin' women
Who lived in the Roman days.
It seems that they all went swimmin'
While their men was off to graze.
Well, a Roman troop was ridin' by
And saw them in their "me oh my's",
So they took 'em all back home to dry.
Least that's what Plutarch says.
Oh yes!
And the women was sobbin', sobbin', sobbin'
Fit to be tied.
Ev'ry muscle was throbbin', throbbin'
From that riotous ride.
Seems they cried and kissed and kissed and cried
All over that Roman countryside
So don't forget that when you're takin' a bride.
Sobbin' fit to be tied
From that riotous ride!
They never did return their plunder
The victor gets all the loot.
They carried them home, by thunder,
To rotundas small but cute.
And you've never seen,
So they tell me,
Such downright go domesticity.
With a Roman baby on each knee
Named "Claudius" and "Brute"

SIX BROTHERS
Oh yes!
And the women was sobbin', sobbin', sobbin', passin' them nights.

ADAM
While the Romans was goin' out hobbin', nobbin'
Startin' up fights.
They kept occupied by sewin' lots of little old togas
For them tots and sayin' "someday women folk'll have rights."

GIDEON
Passin' all o' them nights.

ADAM
Just sewin'!

FRANK AND BENJAMIN
While the Romans had fights.

CALEB
"Hey listen to this"
Now when their men folk went to fetch 'em
Them women would not be fetched.

FRANK
It seems them Romans ketch 'em
That their lady friends stay ketched.

ADAM
Right, now let this be because it's true,
A lesson to the likes of you,
Rough 'em up like them there Romans do
Or else they'll think you're tetched.

SIX BROTHERS
Oh yes!
Them a women was sobbin', sobbin',
Sobbin' buckets of tears
ADAM
My pail

SIX BROTHERS
On account o' old dobbin',
Dobbin' really rattled their ears.

ADAM
Oh they acted angry and annoyed

GIDEON
But secretly they was overjoyed

ADAM
You must recall that when corralin' your steers

BROTHERS
Oh, oh, oh, oh them poor little dears.

SIX BROTHERS ADAM
Oh yes
Them a women was sobbin', sobbin', sobbin' Oh yes
Weepin' a ton Them sobbin' women.
Just remember what Robin, Robin, Robin Oh yes
Hood woulda done. Them sobbin women.
We'll be just like them but merry men Oh yes
Them sobbin' women And make 'em all merry once again.

ADAM
Them goin be a sobbin' for a while

ALL
Oh yes!
We're gonna make them sobbin' women smile!

source: https://www.lyricsondemand.com/soun...forsevenbrotherslyrics/sobbinwomenlyrics.html


from the 1954 MGM production

Here's the cut from the movie:

After burning Miletos and taking its women and children for their own, the Persians set out to punish the backwater Greek cities that had supported the revolt. After the Persian advance force got its nose bloodied at Marathon, the women of Athens were spared a change in bedmates for a decade.

In 480 BCE, however, the Persians came not just to punish, but to conquer. After the famous Battle of Thermopylae, where Xerxes most definitively did come to take the Spartans’ weapons, tens of thousands of angry Persian soldiers descended into the Boeotian plain. The small cities of Boeotia and Attica were mere appetizers for the Persians as they advanced on Athens, with little treasure and few women to sate the soldiers’ lust. Like his account of Miletos, Herodotus telling of this campaign was one of the first to mention what happened to the Greek women.

Some of the women were raped successively by so many Persian soldiers that they died

Click to expand...

The Persians seemed to have thoroughly enjoyed the relatively few Greek women they pulled from the flames and rubble of their homes.

Aedile said:

After burning Miletos and taking its women and children for their own, the Persians set out to punish the backwater Greek cities that had supported the revolt. After the Persian advance force got its nose bloodied at Marathon, the women of Athens were spared a change in bedmates for a decade.

In 480 BCE, however, the Persians came not just to punish, but to conquer. After the famous Battle of Thermopylae, where Xerxes most definitively did come to take the Spartans’ weapons, tens of thousands of angry Persian soldiers descended into the Boeotian plain. The small cities of Boeotia and Attica were mere appetizers for the Persians as they advanced on Athens, with little treasure and few women to sate the soldiers’ lust. Like his account of Miletos, Herodotus telling of this campaign was one of the first to mention what happened to the Greek women.



The Persians seemed to have thoroughly enjoyed the relatively few Greek women they pulled from the flames and rubble of their homes.



View attachment 772367View attachment 772368View attachment 772369View attachment 772370View attachment 772375View attachment 772378

Click to expand...

Yikes.

Nice thread, Aedile.
Sometimes I think we live in a little time bubble, and normal programming will be resumed again one day. War, and brutality, and rape do seem to be staples of human history.

Barb and I wrote a story a few years ago, based around the sack of Beziers during the Albigensian crusade. I think some of it is a good fit for this thread.

phlebas said:

Nice thread, Aedile.
Sometimes I think we live in a little time bubble, and normal programming will be resumed again one day. War, and brutality, and rape do seem to be staples of human history.

Barb and I wrote a story a few years ago, based around the sack of Beziers during the Albigensian crusade. I think some of it is a good fit for this thread.

The Knight And The Gnostic

Barb and I have been busy writing a story for you and we will be posting alternately, one episode each per day. So let's get started :) Episode 1 "Professor Phlebas, Professor Phlebas! Over here sir!" Phlebas hurried over to the source of the cry. This could be it, the culmination of decades...

www.cruxforums.com

http://www.cruxforums.com/xf/resources/the-knight-and-the-gnostic-by-barbaria-and-phlebas.495/

Click to expand...

Outstanding story! Thanks for contributing. The Albigensian Crusade was truly brutal, something western history has tried its best to forget.

Aedile said:

Outstanding story! Thanks for contributing. The Albigensian Crusade was truly brutal, something western history has tried its best to forget.

Click to expand...

Indeed. The siege, followed by the massacre at Béziers in 1209, for instance, where the besieging forces asked the papal legate leading them how to distinguish between the (good) Catholic inhabitants and the (bad) Cathars and were [reputedly] told by him "Kill them all. God will know his own". And the people taking part on the Catholic side believed they were earning a 'crusade indulgence' which absolved them of any sins committed during the campaign.

I am off to read The Knight and the Gnostic now.

It wasn’t just the Persians, of course. The Greeks could assert their sexual dominance in warfare just as enthusiastically. Even women were known to be the sexual aggressors in some circumstances.

During the reign of Darius the Great (Xerxes’ father), the local Greek population of Cyrenaica killed their pro-Persian puppet ruler. The murdered tyrant’s mother appealed to the Persian satrap of Egypt, who sent an army to conquer the province. The ringleaders of the assassination seem to have used the Libyan-Greek city of Barca as their headquarters.

The book “Ancient Siege Warfare” by P.B. Kern tells the fate of the conspirators:

When the Persians captured Barca to avenge the murder of their puppet tyrant, they turned the murderers over to the tyrant’s mother. She had them impaled on stakes and also seized their wives, cut off their breasts, and displayed the severed breasts of each wife on stakes alongside the impaled husband.

Click to expand...

Kern gets the story from Herodotus, of course, who writes:

Now the most guilty of the Barcaians, when they were delivered to Pheretime [the tyrant’s mother], she impaled them in a ring about the wall; and she cut off the breasts of their wives and set the wall round with these also in order.

Click to expand...

A vivid, sexually charged punishment, ordered by a woman no less! She arguably had less mercy for the Barcaians’ wives than the Persian commander would have. The rest of the citizens were deported to Bactria; Herodotus makes no mention of further rapes (and he was not shy about doing so).

Thankfully, I don’t have any good images to accompany this story, but one of my strongest sexual fantasies is to be executed by impalement or crucifixion while my SO is raped or also executed in front of me. When I read this story of how Pheretime made sure the impaled Barcaian men saw how they had failed to protect their wives, I was...quite aroused. The stake impaling the man and his woman’s severed tits posted on each side of him sends a two-pronged sexual message that no one could miss.

Well played, Pheretime.

I have just started reading The Knight and the Gnostic, and I discover that it is about precisely the thing I referenced above!

Aedile said:

Outstanding story! Thanks for contributing. The Albigensian Crusade was truly brutal, something western history has tried its best to forget.

Click to expand...

I was in the south of France recently, and they make quite a bit of fuss about the Cathars there, for tourist purposes.
Glad you like the story, we had a lot of fun writing it.

Migoz2 said:

Indeed. The siege, followed by the massacre at Béziers in 1209, for instance, where the besieging forces asked the papal legate leading them how to distinguish between the (good) Catholic inhabitants and the (bad) Cathars and were [reputedly] told by him "Kill them all. God will know his own". And the people taking part on the Catholic side believed they were earning a 'crusade indulgence' which absolved them of any sins committed during the campaign.

Click to expand...

I suspect a lot of those taking part were in it for the money and the pussy, to be honest. The Albigensian Crusade has been described as the conquest of southern France by the northern nobility. The Crusades in general were as much a safety valve for keeping restless warriors busy as they were a religious movement.

Migoz2 said:

I have just started reading The Knight and the Gnostic, and I discover that it is about precisely the thing I referenced above!

Click to expand...

Yep. Hope you like it We're dead historical, we are
Taken in Beziers a couple of months ago, a peaceful place now but you can see it's quite a defensible position.

Here’s break from some of the violence. A little vignette about how life could turn out okay for some captured women.

———————-

The horrors are long behind her. The sight, smells, and sounds of her home city of Miletos burning. The sweating, blood-covered soldier who took her on the floor of her own house. His grunting, his grimy hands gripping her hips, the pain inside as his engorged cock penetrated her womanhood. His lingering moan as he came. The slap on her bare ass as he got up and the next took his place between her legs.

The long march across Asia. Every night, soldiers came to the train of captives and picked women to take back to their tents for a night of pleasure. She was one of the prettier ones; she spent few nights alone during the weeks-long trek. She saw all varieties of men during her nights in the tents. Some men were violent, some were businesslike about the sex, and others seemed to want her to love them, to be a companion. These few men were her lifeline. They gave her extra food, better shoes, and clothes that could withstand the Anatolian sun. It made the nights when she was “selected” by one of the cruel soldiers bearable.

All that was behind her now. She was a favored woman in a noble Persian man’s harem. Once the stumbling captives had filed into Babylon, the pregnant women (most of them by this point) were sent off in groups to be relocated across the empire. The girl and few of the other pretty ones who had been spared pregnancy went to the market as potential harem women.

She was purchased as a gift by the young man’s father, an exotic slave girl from the Greek cities to start the son’s harem on the occasion of the boy’s transition to manhood. The father’s slaves cleaned her up, put some weight back on her after the long journey, and then she was placed in son’s chamber as a surprise for when the newly-minted man retired for the night after the celebration.

From that first night on, her man treated her gently in bed and basked in her beauty. She knew him more intimately than any of the free men who counted as his friends and subordinates. She saw him naked and at his most vulnerable. She touched his balls, the very essence of his manhood, and watched him freeze in pleasure. She knew that the minutes between when he came and when he fell asleep was when he would speak unfiltered and agree to any request she would make. She had learned the power of being a woman.

There was only one thing left to secure her position in the man’s life and his growing harem. The eunuchs prepared a bitter tea which they gave to every harem girl after the master left his seed inside her. Tonight, she told them not to bother.

As she straddled her man and moved her hips in just the way he liked, she whispered in his ear in his language.

“I want your baby.”

Apostate said:

In English "rape" has the archaic meaning of "kidnap." Which is why depictions of the Sabine women, or the Daughters of Leucippus, frequently show naked women, but I’ve never seen one that qualifies as hardcore pornography.

Much to my surprise, actually.

Click to expand...

That's right - indeed having sex with a young woman, or simply eloping with her,
without her father's consent was what constituted rape.
The poet Geoffrey Chaucer was accused of that crime,
though it seems he settled with the aggrieved dad out of court.

There's a 'Sabine' bedroom at Chatsworth House, the palatial home of the Dukes of Devonshire,
decorated with a (fun but softcore) painting of the Rape of the Sabine Women.
A nice one for unaccompanied lady guests to stay in overnight!

The Price of Defeet. . .

The won't allow me to copy the picture, but you can find it here.

phlebas said:

Yep. Hope you like it We're dead historical, we are
Taken in Beziers a couple of months ago, a peaceful place now but you can see it's quite a defensible position.

Click to expand...

I really enjoyed that. Excellent - well-written, good story and erotic as hell in places!

And nice photos of Béziers - I love those medieval castles perched on rocks above towns!

Gibbs505 said:

The won't allow me to copy the picture, but you can find it here.

Spoils to the victor

Louis John Steele - Spoils to the victor

www.aucklandartgallery.com

Click to expand...

Here she is ...

Eulalia said:

Here she is ...

View attachment 774182

Click to expand...

Thanks, those Maoris, they are a fearsome lot!

In 838 CE, the Abbasid Caliph al-Mu’tasim was angry. The previous year, the forces of the Eastern Roman (aka Byzantine) Empire smashed through Abbasid defenses in mountains of eastern Anatolia. The Romans took several key fortress cities and completely destroyed Zapetra, which some sources say was the birthplace of al-Mu’tasim himself. The young, ambitious Roman Emperor Theophilos certainly thought the campaign was worth celebrating. He threw a Triumph upon his return to Constantinople, where he was proclaimed the “Incomparable Champion.”

When 838 CE dawned, al-Mu’tasim knew exactly how he would exact his revenge. In the late spring, a massive army departed Tarsus in Cilicia with the Caliph himself at its head. The army made no secret of its target, for the Caliph had the name of the city flown on banners and inscribed on his men’s shields.

Amorium. The largest and most prosperous city in Anatolia, a provincial capital, and the birthplace of the Emperor Theophilos. Located in western Anatolia deep within Roman territory, there was no way to hold the city if they took it. This army was bent on plunder only. Every one of the 80,000 men marching to Amorium dreamed of the loot he would take and the beautiful Greek women he would fuck back in the army camp as their homes burned in the night.

The Abbasid army split into two columns for the march. When the Roman army tried to get the drop on one of the columns, the Abbasid forces brushed the Emperor aside. Amorium itself held out for nearly two months, until a Roman officer commanding a weakened section of the wall decided to negotiate on his own. As a gesture of goodwill, he ordered his men to stand down while he treated with the Caliph. The Abbasid soldiers took the opportunity to swarm the undefended sector, broke through, and the sack was on.

The Abbasid poet Abu Tammam went on to write “An Ode on the Conquest of Amorium.” He revels in the sexual conquest of the women of the city:

How many a [maiden like a] beaming moon
they took beneath war’s lightning beam!
How many a white-toothed maid beneath
war’s beam!

How many a maid, like a reed trembling on a
sand-dune,
Did the drawn and trembling swords
obtain!

Click to expand...

“Drawn and trembling swords” indeed...

Being something of an amateur historian I think in many ways this is a pretty easy situation to visualize (even though we sanitize it in the history books).

Human warfare has always been about control of resources. It is fairly conclusively proved the agrarian societies were the first to fortify their settlements. Precisely because the were settled and the ability to produce food on a regular basis made them very tempting targets to hunter\gather groups.

Men of military age are a threat. Has any culture ever truly stayed on the bottom of the stack unless constantly oppressed? So eliminating the males in that group reduces the threat.

Children are a labor asset in that they can be brought to a location under their own power and be put to work. Thus enslavement makes good economic sense. Wars have to pay for themselves or they very quickly bankrupt the government waging them.

Women are both a economic asset (those that can be sold into slavery at a high price [read pretty]) and as a reward to the soldiers for a successful battle in a time period when cash money wasn't readily moved around.

In societies where the sons of women with no power (concubines or slaves) can be legitimate successors (ex: The Ottoman Empire), women of child bearing age are also a valuable commodity.

And of course what man doesn't like sex? And now, during the sack of the city, you can have the woman of your choice (as many as you can handle and get access too), she can't say “no” and if she gets pregnant, well that isn't your problem is it?

In my victim fantasies (and stories) it is a pretty easy to both imagine, understand and find erotic.

kisses

willowfall

Genetic studies show that 8% of the male population of Asian - 0.5% of the entire human male population - are descendants of Genghis Khan. When the Mongols conquered an area, the Great Khan got first pick of the women to add to his massive harem. Of course, the woman had no say in the matter. They were the spoils of war.
The lineage could only be detected on the Y chromosome, so only males could be counted. The number of female descendants is probably comparable.