Crown Of Thorns? Discussion

[bellesouth]

As a relative newcomer to this forum I must apologise for being rather late to this thread. Just a few points though.
One should remember that the gospels, according to many scholars, were not written until well after the events they record. Some place the earliest one was Mark written about 40 years later.
To place the crucifixion of Jesus into its historical context one should try to track down a copy of a book "AD33" by Hugh Ross Williamson. This may well be out of print but it is well worth the effort. Williamson, if memory serves me correctly, attributes to choice of Jesus to be crucified over Barabas as a choice the people had to make between an activist opposed to Roman rule over one who was more pacifist by nature.

 

[messaline]

... to choice of Jesus to be crucified over Barabas as a choice the people had to make between an activist opposed to Roman rule over one who was more pacifist by nature.

But was Barabas not a brigand rather than an activist ?

 

[bellesouth]

But was Barabas not a brigand rather than an activist ?

According to Williamson, if I remember correctly, he was leader of a rebellion against Roman rule and not a robber or thief.

 

[Apostate]

But was Barabas not a brigand rather than an activist ?

Depends on what they told you in catechism or Sunday school. I was taught as a boy that he was a "robber," but later read that he was an "insurgent."A Wikipedia page that lacks "issues" summarizes the matter.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barabbas

 

[messaline]

OK ! It was certainly easier for the Romans to consider a rebell like a brigand to better decry him ...

 

[Apostate]

OK ! It was certainly easier for the Romans to consider a rebell like a brigand to better decry him ...

As in the debate today. Are they terrorists or freedom fighters?

 

[bellesouth]

As in the debate today. Are they terrorists or freedom fighters?

It depends on who writes the history. Usually it's the winners but can also rely on a little bit of forgetfulness on the part of historians.
Just as an example and most certainly not to upset Messaline who I have come to love, but take Joan d'Arc. Yes, the English did burn her at the stake. In fact they burnt her twice just to make sure. There is a cruel joke in France that she was the only thing we've ever cooked properly.

But it was the French who put her there. She was captured, tried and condemned by Frenchmen and handed to the English for the sentence to be carried out. She was charged with seventy crimes, the worst of which was that she wore her hair short, dressed in men's clothes, wore trousers and armour.. This was the most heinous crime that a woman could commit, placing those that did so beyond salvation. These days it might be said that it was the equivalent of a modern army being led by a transvestite wearing a dress. Though the Papal guards wear skirts don't they!

Joan had to wait nearly five hundred years before she became the patron saint of France. It was after the conclusion of WW1 that she was put forward for cannonisation which was finally granted in May 1920. This was upheld despite a claim that she couldn't really be a saint because men had ogled her breasts when she was held captive.**

So, it just shows what a little forgetfulness and and a lot of propaganda can do to alter one's perception of what is historical fact.

Sometimes Messaline the truth can hurt but I hope that you'll forgive me and that we can continue to be lovers.

** Contemporary reports suggest that she was well endowed.

 

[messaline]

Sometimes Messaline the truth can hurt but I hope that you'll forgive me and that we can continue to be lovers.

Yes, of course that we can, Belle, and I agree with you for the rest ... excepted perhaps that we can retionally think from so researchs of some historians that Joan of Arc was not at all the woman that the History was usually showing ...
It seems that she was rather a kind of "marionnette" manipulated by Yolande d'Aragon, Duchess of Anjou ( stepmother of the future king Charles VII) for the consecration of this same Charles VII at Reims'cathedral ...
In fact, Joan could be the daughter of Louis d'Orleans and Isabeau de Bavière ... so, not at all a simple shepherdess !
More, it could be appearing that it was not Joan of Arc who was burned at Rouen and that she could be yet living for a long time ago ...

 

[Fox-on-Cross]

Jeanne, betrayed by the Bourgeons, is "crucified" by pyre, burning. Duration of suffering about 20 minutes. When the ashes are blown highly then she got a certain crown of thorns...

Politically Jeanne is in the XX c. political symbole for left, right and Jews. (Michel Winock: Nat. a.s. et fasc. en France, 1982)

 

[Apostate]

Jeanne, betrayed by the Bourgeons, is "crucified" by pyre, burning. Duration of suffering about 20 minutes. When the ashes are blown highly then she got a certain crown of thorns...

Politically Jeanne is in the XX c. political symbole for left, right and Jews. (Michel Winock: Nat. a.s. et fasc. en France, 1982)

And the occasional humorist.

 

[john rambo]

Butterfly

 

[john rambo]

red girl

 

[john rambo]

Oberammergau

 

[Apostate]

Butterfly

A tad more on topic, John. Good one.

 

[john rambo]

the blood on the forehead is humiliating and sexy

 

[petraherz]

a gruesome eternal adornment for beautiful ladys.....