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Crucifixion: Antiquity, Medieval, Or Modern?

Which crucifixion scenario evokes more emotion?

  • Crucifixion of Roman antiquity: Innocent woman is crucified for a crime she did not commit.

  • Medieval crucifixion: Innocent Christian woman is crucified by Saracens for not converting.

  • Modern crucifixion: Innocent woman is abducted during her travels, sold, and crucified for money.

Results are only viewable after voting.
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Innocence is so relative. The poll questions get to my opinion more spicy, when there is a story behind it.

"Crucifixion of Roman antiquity: Innocent woman is crucified for a crime she did not commit."
After she got away with a heavier crime.

"Medieval crucifixion: Innocent Christian woman is crucified by Saracens for not converting."
She used to inform pirates about outbound merchant ships, for money. When the local authorities started to suspect her, she fled... by ship. Bad luck her ship had been betrayed by someone else.

"Modern crucifixion: Innocent woman is abducted during her travels, sold, and crucified for money."
Travels she could finance by her former illegal, nature devastating businesses for which she had never paid a penny of taxes on her profits...
 
Loxuru said:
"Modern crucifixion: Innocent woman is abducted during her travels, sold, and crucified for money."
Travels she could finance by her former illegal, nature devastating businesses for which she had never paid a penny of taxes on her profits...
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If she was that well off, the bad guys would just demand a ransom, wouldn't they?

Besides, the poll missed "Future crux" carried out entirely by robots,,,
 
Although my tastes are more to the Roman end, I have an idea for a modern-day story that I've thought about a lot although it will be a long time before I get round to writing it.

A beautiful undercover agent infiltrates an organised crime ring. Eventually she is caught and the crime boss decides the traitor must pay the worst price imaginable. Perhaps it turns out our traitor is Jewish, so the crime boss decides she must also pay a historical price for the death of Christ and decides to re-enact the Crucifixion in a remote warehouse he owns. He devises a scourge using lengths of cord weighted with nuts and bolts that he perhaps has sharpened, strips her and flogs her. He crowns her with barbed wire. He makes her carry a heavy plank around the warehouse as his men spit on her and abuse her. Then he has her nailed to a low cross and left to die while he and his men sit around drinking and playing cards, perhaps amusing themselves with her as she hangs there.
 
I voted Roman. I think all three COULD be done well, but to me, medieval, and especially modern stories, tend to lose some of their realism. In the modern world, women aren't actually crucified, except perhaps in the rarest of circumstances, and those modern "crucifixions" (thinking ISIS) are not what I picture when I think of crucifixion. So to do it well, you'd have to create a whole alternative modern world so that it all feels real. That's tough to do, and I think I've most often seen it done poorly. At the very least, it likely requires a lot of "laying the groundwork," and "setting the stage," which can get boring.

That said, as others have mentioned, Roman crucifixion scenes tend to be predictable. To me, it's ok if the action is predictable, as long as we create deep characters with deep thoughts, feelings, and emotions. Those are the things we're really here for, right? (At least I am.) ;) And those things need not be predictable, regardless of the action.

That's my take. :)
 
I'll also add this - to me, an innocent victim is great, but there's nothing wrong with a guilty woman. I probably wouldn't want her to be guilty of something HUGE so that you dislike her, but I could see the sense of shame from actually being guilty could be compelling...
 
Juan1234 said:
I voted Roman. I think all three COULD be done well, but to me, medieval, and especially modern stories, tend to lose some of their realism. In the modern world, women aren't actually crucified, except perhaps in the rarest of circumstances, and those modern "crucifixions" (thinking ISIS) are not what I picture when I think of crucifixion. So to do it well, you'd have to create a whole alternative modern world so that it all feels real. That's tough to do, and I think I've most often seen it done poorly. At the very least, it likely requires a lot of "laying the groundwork," and "setting the stage," which can get boring.

That said, as others have mentioned, Roman crucifixion scenes tend to be predictable. To me, it's ok if the action is predictable, as long as we create deep characters with deep thoughts, feelings, and emotions. Those are the things we're really here for, right? (At least I am.) ;) And those things need not be predictable, regardless of the action.

That's my take. :)
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I did a crucifixion set in Massachusetts in 1780. Not modern as in 2016, but post-Enlightenment definitely. I'd be interested in your opinion http://www.cruxforums.com/xf/threads/the-real-historical-female-jesus.5775/
 
Juan1234 said:
Uh oh, now I'm in trouble. :doh: Should have held my tongue. Windar, I'll take a look. In the meantime, I'll just say that I have great respect for your talent as a writer, and I'm sure you've done an amazing job. :)
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Thanks for the kind words, but I'll wait until you read it. Barb has written a chapter in it also.
 
windar said:
Thanks for the kind words, but I'll wait until you read it. Barb has written a chapter in it also.
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It's very well done, Windar (and Barb)! I will admit I had that familiar twinge of disappointment when they first sentenced her to crucifixion, because it felt a little forced and unhistorical. But the whole thing in general felt very real and sincere, so it was a mild twinge. :) And I got over it quickly and thoroughly enjoyed the description of the execution. No sex-for-sex's-sake, no inappropriate nudity, exquisite descriptive writing... All in all, it was excellent. And then (SPOILER ALERT) it ends up all being a dream, which makes it even more "ok" that they crucified her. Bravo!

(I especially loved her waiting while they decided whether to nail her or tie her with ropes. Wow.)
 
Juan1234 said:
It's very well done, Windar (and Barb)! I will admit I had that familiar twinge of disappointment when they first sentenced her to crucifixion, because it felt a little forced and unhistorical. But the whole thing in general felt very real and sincere, so it was a mild twinge. :) And I got over it quickly and thoroughly enjoyed the description of the execution. No sex-for-sex's-sake, no inappropriate nudity, exquisite descriptive writing... All in all, it was excellent. And then (SPOILER ALERT) it ends up all being a dream, which makes it even more "ok" that they crucified her. Bravo!

(I especially loved her waiting while they decided whether to nail her or tie her with ropes. Wow.)
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Thanks for your very kind review, Juan.

The poor bumpkins of Cheltenham didn't have the excellent guidance of the many folks here at CF who have researched crucifixion in great detail. They really only had the biblical accounts, which don't provide much practical help.

I considered having them go down to Cambridge to try to find a Harvard professor to advise them, but this was rather an extrajudicial thing anyway they wouldn't have wanted word getting out to the higher authorities. I don't think John Adams would have much liked a crucifixion happening in his home state! But at least they didn't need any help in doing a proper whipping.
 
Juan1234 said:
I voted Roman. I think all three COULD be done well, but to me, medieval, and especially modern stories, tend to lose some of their realism. In the modern world, women aren't actually crucified, except perhaps in the rarest of circumstances, and those modern "crucifixions" (thinking ISIS) are not what I picture when I think of crucifixion. So to do it well, you'd have to create a whole alternative modern world so that it all feels real. That's tough to do, and I think I've most often seen it done poorly. At the very least, it likely requires a lot of "laying the groundwork," and "setting the stage," which can get boring.

That said, as others have mentioned, Roman crucifixion scenes tend to be predictable. To me, it's ok if the action is predictable, as long as we create deep characters with deep thoughts, feelings, and emotions. Those are the things we're really here for, right? (At least I am.) ;) And those things need not be predictable, regardless of the action.
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For setting today's crucifixions, one needs indeed a parallel world. But one should not need to be too inventive, it is just a matter of putting real political or social conflicts into another context.
I agree to that a story needs more than just an execution, but also the creation of characters. Therefore, innocence as such is psychologically a too flat premise for a story (to my opinion). Ignorance is a better start (as ignorance is no exculpation). The characters don't need to be criminals but they should have made choises that could have made their execution evitable. A good mixture of free will and fate.
 
Loxuru said:
For setting today's crucifixions, one needs indeed a parallel world. But one should not need to be too inventive, it is just a matter of putting real political or social conflicts into another context.
I agree to that a story needs more than just an execution, but also the creation of characters. Therefore, innocence as such is psychologically a too flat premise for a story (to my opinion). Ignorance is a better start (as ignorance is no exculpation). The characters don't need to be criminals but they should have made choises that could have made their execution evitable. A good mixture of free will and fate.
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Yes, like visiting a place where such things are known to happen. They may not commit a crime, but they have made bad choices.
 
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