• Sign up or login, and you'll have full access to opportunities of forum.
Go to CruxDreams.com

Josedimas

Guard
Crucifixion scene displaying Christ and the two thieves, Dismas and Gestas, crucified at Calvary. At least for me, it was the first time that the scene was performed with the crucified in complete nudity. All of three were trembling and our voices sounded weak and hesitant. Gestas (right) turns his face rebuking Christ, while Dismas (left) suffers the torture peacefully and full of hope.
 

Attachments

  • CruxForums.jpg
    CruxForums.jpg
    127.7 KB · Views: 1,026
Crucifixion scene displaying Christ and the two thieves, Dismas and Gestas, crucified at Calvary. At least for me, it was the first time that the scene was performed with the crucified in complete nudity. All of three were trembling and our voices sounded weak and hesitant. Gestas (right) turns his face rebuking Christ, while Dismas (left) suffers the torture peacefully and full of hope.
good start
 
When I was young, I remember visiting some kind of art exhibition that seemed to be focussed almost exclusively on the crucifixion scene. What I found interesting is that in several of the paintings being exhibited, while Jesus himself was show nailed (through the hands rather than the wrists), while the other two guys were merely roped onto their crosses.

Not being a catholic (or even remotely religious), I'm wondering if this is a traditional way of painting this scene or is there some other message being conveyed here...
 
I think it was the artists way of making the viewer focus on the suffering on Christ by making it appear more painful that those of the others, also in many painting it is depicted a Christ in a more or less symmetric position, while the others are positioned in an unharmonic way, I think that reflects the acceptance versus resistance of the subjects.
We have people here who really do know about art so maybe they'll correct me.
 
Crucifixion scene displaying Christ and the two thieves, Dismas and Gestas, crucified at Calvary. At least for me, it was the first time that the scene was performed with the crucified in complete nudity. All of three were trembling and our voices sounded weak and hesitant. Gestas (right) turns his face rebuking Christ, while Dismas (left) suffers the torture peacefully and full of hope.
Jesus is male ? Really ? :p

Good start! :)
 
When I was young, I remember visiting some kind of art exhibition that seemed to be focussed almost exclusively on the crucifixion scene. What I found interesting is that in several of the paintings being exhibited, while Jesus himself was show nailed (through the hands rather than the wrists), while the other two guys were merely roped onto their crosses.

Not being a catholic (or even remotely religious), I'm wondering if this is a traditional way of painting this scene or is there some other message being conveyed here...
I think it was the artists way of making the viewer focus on the suffering on Christ by making it appear more painful that those of the others, also in many painting it is depicted a Christ in a more or less symmetric position, while the others are positioned in an unharmonic way, I think that reflects the acceptance versus resistance of the subjects.
We have people here who really do know about art so maybe they'll correct me.
I don't know about art either, I agree the wish to make the thieves looks "different" from Christ may have been sufficient reason.
Distinguishing them in that way seems have only become a common practice in the renaissance,
when there was greater emphasis on 'mimetic' realism, yet still the need to maintain a 'hierarchic' composition -
here's an example (Veronese):
Veronese_Crucifixion_1580.jpg

Incidentally (a bit more on eul's home ground) the name Dysmas
comes from the apocryphal Gospel of Nicodemus, probably of the 4th century,
bringing together traditions that had developed around the crucifixion accounts
in the canonical Gospels. In some versions, the bad thief is called Gestas.
 
I don't know about art either, I agree the wish to make the thieves looks "different" from Christ may have been sufficient reason.
Distinguishing them in that way seems have only become a common practice in the renaissance,
when there was greater emphasis on 'mimetic' realism, yet still the need to maintain a 'hierarchic' composition -
here's an example (Veronese):
View attachment 197542

Incidentally (a bit more on eul's home ground) the name Dysmas
comes from the apocryphal Gospel of Nicodemus, probably of the 4th century,
bringing together traditions that had developed around the crucifixion accounts
in the canonical Gospels. In some versions, the bad thief is called Gestas.
There is some fascinating academic writing on this subject of the treatment of the thieves in art compared to the depiction of the Christ figure (as well as the use of imagery of punishment and torture in early modern art).

Look at: http://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/T/bo3621816.html

Here are a couple of brief, informative reviews from the Amazon site:
From Library Journal
Pain and suffering are popular motifs in Western art. Indeed, the predominant Christian theme in medieval art is the Crucifixion of Christ. To understand better this ritualization of pain and death, Merback (art history, DePauw Univ.) attempts a serious study of the Crucifixion, the execution of the two thieves, torture, and the spectacle and ritual of punishment in medieval art. While the subject matter is gruesome and distasteful, this highly specialized study does bring to light symbolic meanings of the medieval depiction of pain and punishment, and Merback does a good job of explaining pain in the context of medieval life and philosophy. In the end, however, he's trying to do too much. Despite his efforts to tie together all the historical, theological, and social elements, the text ultimately meanders. Only for specialized academic collections.AKaren Ellis, Baldwin Boettcher Lib., Humble, TX
Copyright 1999 Reed Business Information, Inc.

'This is a rich and learned book - whose lively contemplations make well-known images of the past pulsate vibrantly, as they must have done for some who viewed them half a millennium ago.' - TLS 'This powerful and well-illustrated work probes the relationship between images of the Crucifixion and the understanding of pain, suffering and justice - fascinating.' - History Today 'Merback's analysis is intelligent, stylishly written, and - theoretically informed - this imaginative study contain chunks of extremely insightful analysis, which in combination with its sheer readability, makes it the best account of medieval penalty to come out in a very long time.' - Art History 'a well produced volume with excellent use of images, both black and white and colour, to embellish the text, but a reader will need a strong stomach to attempt to digest the material it contains. This is a horrific book, as it is intended to be.' - Art Newspaper 'This is a shocking and absorbing book, strikingly illustrated - Not for the squeamish.' - Good Book Guide 'Merback's scholarship ranges widely, and with ease.' - Church Times --This text refers to an out of print or unavailable edition of this title.

Another fascinating read, studying the depiction of, in particular, female punishment and torture scenes (usually of saints) and the meaning of these images in Medieval art is:

http://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/distributed/S/bo3621696.html

Both are books that should be on the "required reading list" of most of the regular visitors to this site! (and I have no idea what is causing the line through the text I have typed!!!)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Thanks for those pk - those reviews put the question in the wider context of attitudes to pain and suffering -
a sensuously strong identification with the sufferings of Christ and Mary (and indeed of 'my' virgin martyrs too)
was very much part of the 'affective' devotion encouraged among laypeople and contemplatives in the later middle ages/ renaissance,
it's powerfully expressed in paintings and poetry.
It raised problematic issues - the suffering victim/ conquering hero paradox (especially if the victim happened to be a conquering heroine!)
And while the 'good thief' could be held up as a model of acquiescent acceptance of deserved punishment,
the defiant 'bad thief' tenaciously clinging to his own provocative take on the situation was bound to elicit some sneaking sympathy!
 
I have no idea what is causing the line through the text I have typed!!!)
I'm not sure why it happens accidentally sometimes -
but you can remove it by clicking on the 'insert' icon on the top of the reply box
(third from the right, to the left of the 'undo/ redo' arrows),
and selecting 'strike through'. I've done it for you here.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pia
The 2 thieves are unnamed in the canonical Gospels. The name Dismas may have first appeared in the IV century Gospel of Nicodemus. Other versions use the name are: Demas, Dysmas, Titus, Zoatham, Zoathan, Joathas or Rakh.
The unrepentant thief on Jesus' left is called Gestas in Nicodemus. He is also known as Chammata, Chamma, Maggatras, Dumachus.
In art in which all three appear, Jesus' head is almost always tilted to his right - toward Dismas.
crucif1.jpg crucif2 Jan_van_Eyck_.jpg crucif3.jpg crucif4.jpg crucif5.jpg crucif6.jpg
Another thing is that the thieves are often hanging in a very different - and impractical - manner that Jesus.

And, Tree, check out the flimsy loin cloth in number 2. It's as if the artist, Jan van Eyck, wanted to have him naked, but knew he couldn't get away with it.
 
It was in 2002 when I participated in my first Passion Play as Dismas. Of that time I have found these nice pics. I remember that along the week of the event I was feeling myself more and more nervous, and in the previous night I couln't sleep. To get some peace, that night I had to masturbate me twice. In the first picture I look very scared, as truly I felt. I was trembling, since I was much younger then. In the second picture, I'm the crucified guy on the left. But already on the croos, I felt myself more relaxed. That was my so long time desired first public crucifixion!! I had to face with the opposition of my family that started thinking that I was a gay. Some friends and workmates mocked me. But more crucifixions followed to this one, some of them in total nudity.
 

Attachments

  • dismas (2002).jpg
    dismas (2002).jpg
    160.3 KB · Views: 652
  • Passion 2002.jpg
    Passion 2002.jpg
    161.8 KB · Views: 702
The first time in public, who might to wish this!

The religion component is the key to realize this in your R.K. country.
For others (as here) there are only in strict seclusion no opportunities.
 
We often forget the sufferings of the two thieves (Dismas and Gestas). Certainly, the Gospels doesn't explain too much about it. But I'm quite sure that they passed by the same sufferings than Christ. For instance, I think that, before being crucified, they were also flagellated. The picture shows the thief Dismas being whipped. Dismas it is me. It was taken from a Passion Play performed with several fixed images related with the Passion of Christ, including scenes previous to the crucifixion. Without dialogues, without movements, only background music. A variant of the classical passion plays performed along Good Friday.
 

Attachments

  • whipping dismas.JPG
    whipping dismas.JPG
    136.2 KB · Views: 897
Sometimes only a proper whipping will do!

View attachment 426884 View attachment 426885
Hello
Beautiful girl : a pleasure to whip her !
Personaly I prefer women, whipped or not :bdsm-heart:

About Dismas, the Penitent/Good thief (in French 'le bon larron', old word, cf Spanish 'ladron')
Interesting : I didn't know the details
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penitent_thief
He is sometimes considered by Catholics as the first Saint (of History)
Evangelicals deny the words 'good' or 'bad'
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Back
Top Bottom