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Messaline is wondering ...

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But basically unless Germany is a complete outlier from other countries of similar levels of development the number of reported rapes is an under estimate of rape occurrences and the number of rapes successfully prosecuted is only about 5-10%.
In France, this is the same but it's due to that many raped women are too much ashamed and dont want file a claim !
That is to be changed !!!:mad:


PS: it might be the time for a mod to create a new thread for posts on this particular subject rather than clog up Messaline's thread.
I'm not OK because it could be the best manner to close this discussion : I'm sure that people will not go to an other thread ...
 
To be clear : like I said before ( I'm not sure that you read it ... ) I participate from time to time in an association which help the violated women to do their demarches for to file a claim ...
But, I think that the real problem is more into the women'heads rather than in "statistics" ...
Women, due certainly to so much centuries of submmission, are yet not inclined to start a justice'act , knowing well that they certainly will be besmeared during the debates ; the defense will say that if they were raped, it's because they were wearing tempting clothes or having an attracting behavior !
Women are too much ashamed when they are assaulted ! It does change !!!
... and all what it's actually happening into the cinema'world can be good for that , if the things are avered , of course ...
What I can reproach to you, men is that you are too much taking ( and speaking of ) the viol in a intellectual manner ...
Of course, you cant speak otherwise viewing that you're not often violated ...
But, I pray you, let the women to speak and mainly,
ear them and dont reduce all that by statistics'studies !

Messa
 
A little true story.
A couple of years ago,one of my best friends,of the opposite sex, invited me to accompany her to a Rock n Roll night....it went fine ,but she'd received some bad news about a fella she'd formerly dated,and still had feelings for,(he'd gotten married....)
So subsequently she got quite drunk and behaved rather more outrageously than usual.....I was driving,so stuck to Coke all night. When I dropped her off back at her shared bedsit she was in no fit state to be responsible for her actions.....so guess what I did ??
I opened her door to let her in,listened to her alcohol fuelled ramblings,nodded in sympathy, kissed her goodnight on the cheek and.....walked away.
I was brought up to respect Women,and I knew that I COULD have taken advantage of the situation, but being the old fashioned Gentlemen that I am... I made sure my friend was safe and despite my feelings for her decided that discretion was the better part of valour. At least my conscience is 100% clear !! I did however text her the next day (once I'd got home) to check she was ok....Yeah apart from a sore head she was fine and thanked me for getting her home safely. (since then,she eventually moved up North,(unfortunately),but we still keep regular contact).
It just goes to show that even though I'd naturally had desires I exercised a lot of self control....it all depend on how one's brought up really.
 
Messa, I agree with you, the problem that I have with all this is descending from the general, to specific complaints. I agree, every complaint should and must be heard and investigated.
But false complaints should also be dealt with.
Also, I have a big problem with women who go straight to the media and take everything public before there is a chance for a investigation. That smells to me. I am not against the time line, as you say many women are ashamed and it takes a long time to deal with such effects.
I too have my story to tell.
 
But, I pray you, let the women to speak and mainly, ear them and dont reduce all that by statistics'studies !

Messa

I think in a venue like this actually enabling rape and abuse survivors a platform to share their experiences where they wish to is probably more useful.

The study of statistics on the matter is simply due to the false accusation that those recollections are somehow likely to be made up.

Nine per cent of reported cases were designated false, with a high proportion 16-24 year olds. However, closer analysis of this category using Home Office counting rules reduces this to three per cent. Even the higher figure is considerably lower than the extent of false reporting estimated by police officers interviewed in this study.

From Home Office Research Study 293 published in January 2005.

Essentially a strongly prevalent myth remains that accusations of rape are likely to made up despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. One of the reasons is the conflations of two different concepts in media reporting

False report A false report is a reported crime to a law enforcement agency that an investigation factually proves never occurred.

Baseless report A baseless report is one in which it is determined that the incident does not meet the elements of the crime, but is presumed truthful

Source NSVRC False Reporting Overview

Overall there just is no evidence to support dismissing any rape allegation without in depth investigation but it seems some folks would have us do just that. No wonder it is hard for victims to come forwards. Yet women, girls, men and boys have all been victims and it behoves us not to victimise them further.
 
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Reading all those comments I think we are not really that far apart as it seems.
Fighting about numbers doesn´t help.
Does it really matter if 80% or 98% of all rape reports are true? In any case there are too much to not investigate each case seriously. Both to punish the guilty and to protect the innocent.
I don´t know about procedures in other countrys but at least in Germany that is essentially ensured and is not the main reason for non-reporting a rape.
I think there are a lot of other reasons why rapes are so often not reported. First, for most victims the situation is very traumatic. They act not necessarily logical. They don´t have any experience with the police and the juridical system. They don´t know what to expect. Than there is the mental image of going through the whole situation again at the police and later in court. A lot of them have self-doubts and give themself a share of the blame. Often the abuser is the husband or partner or family or a good friend or workmate. When Messalina points out a patriachic culture in many regions, in which the woman is blamed, than that is another important reason.
I believe that there are not enough consulting services for victims of violence and those that are there are not well-known.
That said, I think that times are changing for the better in this aspect. Although there is still a long way to go.
For people interested in numbers:
In Nordrhein-Westfalen (german state with a population of 17.865.000) in 2016 there have been 2320 reports of rape or sexual assort. 1689 thereof (thats 72,8%) are declared solved by the police. 1732 suspects were male, 25 female. I don´t have numbers about convictions.
 
Does it really matter if 80% or 98% of all rape reports are true? In any case there are too much to not investigate each case seriously. Both to punish the guilty and to protect the innocent.
Does it not make a difference that 1 in 50 men accused is innocent versus 1 in 5? I know that my career and life and marriage could have been ruined by a untrue allegation. Is there no damage there?
 
Does it not make a difference that 1 in 50 men accused is innocent versus 1 in 5? I know that my career and life and marriage could have been ruined by a untrue allegation. Is there no damage there?

Does it really matter if 80% or 98% of all rape reports are true? In any case there are too much to not investigate each case seriously. Both to punish the guilty and to protect the innocent.

My underline, as you can see all Conoisseurs is asking for is proper investigation. It slightly comes across as you are arguing against proper investigation Praefectus Praetorio which I hope you are not. I would gently remind you that the entire judicial system of most first world countries is set up to provide protection against false accusations with systems in place to detect and correct miscarriages of justice even after an apparent conviction.
 
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First I would relieve you of that loincloth. Slaves should always go naked.
Oh i don't know....I'm quite partial to a cute little loincloth, detracts from the complete nakedness. (but that's just me... ;) )
You're right ! Perhaps it's time to coming back to the thread ...

So, you wouldn't like such a pretty slave , allowing to guess her forms under a little linen tunic ?
 

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