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My point was that black men would have been unusual, but welcome, customers in a rural English pub in the 1940s,
women of any description might well have been refused admission, or at best allowed in if escorted by a man in a separate (not the 'public') bar.

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Before 1982 women trying to spend their money in English pubs could legally be refused service, a reflection of the older societal norms that had established pubs as a ‘male-only’ social place. A traditional Fleet Street bar, El Vino, banned women to a back room in the name of chivalry. The origin of the ban was thought to date to the Second World War to prevent unescorted women of ill repute picking up customers [I think it went back further than that - eul]. Protests against the rules had made themselves heard over a decade earlier, when in 1970 a group of female journalists demanded to be served because ‘our money is equal so our rights must be equal’. In the 1970s women could legally be refused the right to go [? buy a] drink unaccompanied.
 
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My point was that black men would have been unusual, and welcome, customers in a rural English pub in the 1940s,
women of any description might well have been refused admission, or at best allowed in if escorted by a man in a separate (not the 'public') bar.

Quote:
Before 1982 women trying to spend their money in English pubs could legally be refused service, a reflection of the older societal norms that had established pubs as a ‘male-only’ social place. A traditional Fleet Street bar, El Vino, banned women to a back room in the name of chivalry. The origin of the ban was thought to date to the Second World War to prevent unescorted women of ill repute picking up customers [I think it went back further than that - eul]. Protests against the rules had made themselves heard over a decade earlier, when in 1970 a group of female journalists demanded to be served because ‘our money is equal so our rights must be equal’. In the 1970s women could legally be refused the right to go [? buy a] drink unaccompanied.
In Quebec, tavernes (the equivalent of the working man's pub in Britain) were male only up until around 1980. There were brasseries, which served both genders (as distinct from brassieres which were generally for women). For those who read French, here is une petite histoire https://www.affairesdegars.com/page/article/1816214226/les-hommes-de-taverne.html
 
My point was that black men would have been unusual, and welcome, customers in a rural English pub in the 1940s,
women of any description might well have been refused admission, or at best allowed in if escorted by a man in a separate (not the 'public') bar.

Quote:
Before 1982 women trying to spend their money in English pubs could legally be refused service, a reflection of the older societal norms that had established pubs as a ‘male-only’ social place. A traditional Fleet Street bar, El Vino, banned women to a back room in the name of chivalry. The origin of the ban was thought to date to the Second World War to prevent unescorted women of ill repute picking up customers [I think it went back further than that - eul]. Protests against the rules had made themselves heard over a decade earlier, when in 1970 a group of female journalists demanded to be served because ‘our money is equal so our rights must be equal’. In the 1970s women could legally be refused the right to go [? buy a] drink unaccompanied.
In the early 70s (the time I started gaining experience) it was a bit complex in Germany. In normal pubs and bars women could enter alone and they would get service, but they would often be seen as trollops (and quite a few were:)). That this assessment was right was proven by the fact that these women often smoked on the street where everyone could see them! Shocking!
On the other hand there were Dancing Halls/Diskotheks (the first for people 30+, the latter for 30-). There it was absolutely normal that girls and women came alone and would be treated with respect (at least compared to today).
 
Yes, but sometimes stubborn dedication to the cause overrode the bigotry. Captain Nancy Wake ("the White Mouse" to the Gestapo) of the SOE was undercover in occupied France. Noor Inayat Khan of the SOE was a radio operator in France as a liaison with the Resistance. She was eventually betrayed to the Gestapo and shot at Dachau in 1944. "Liberte'".
Two other women I know of, Violette Szabo and Odette Churchill. Odette survived but Violette was killed in Ravensbruck.
 
Before 1982 women trying to spend their money in English pubs could legally be refused service,
Even though I 'lived above the shop' in the '50s, I was unaware of this, but thinking back, I can't remember women coming into our pub without a man. For us, trade was more important than societal norms, so I'm sure they would have been served.

Even when at Uni in the '60s, the main union bar was dominated by blokes; the odd girl was 'one of the lads' who drank pints of beer.

Thank goodness the female members of CF are more
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than

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Yesterday
International Day of Zero Tolerance for Female
Genital Mutilation, 6 February


Globally, it is estimated that at least 200 million girls and women alive today have undergone some form of FGM.
Countries with the highest prevalence among girls and women aged 15 to 49 are Somalia at 98 per cent, Guinea at 97 per cent, Djibouti 93 per cent and Egypt at 87 per cent.
 
Yesterday marked the 455 birthday celebration of the man, I believe, was the greatest scientist to ever live. He has been called "father of observational astronomy", the "father of modern physics", the "father of the scientific method", and the "father of modern science."

Although he declined to suffer a martyr's death for his beliefs, he courageously championed science over the bigoted and backward superstitions of his time.

He invented a science which truly reflected its etymology from the latin scientia, meaning "knowledge" and ultimately sciere, “to know.”

To him, science did not mean to have faith, to believe, to want, to think, but to KNOW!

Happy Birthday, Galileo Galilei, son of Vincenzo Galilei of Pisa in the Duchy of Florence, February 15, 1564.
 
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Today is "Presidents' Day in the US. A rather mongrel idea of a Monday Holiday to meld the previously separate celebrations for Lincoln and Washington birthdays and throw in all the other Presidents (several of whom deserve very minor celebration in deed). The reputations of the two greats have sunk and risen with fads, but most serious historians continue to judge them the two greatest to hold the office. Washington has suffered the most insults (especially in the 60's and 70's when he was portrayed as a pompous idiot with wooden teeth (teeth part is provably false)). When I have been asked why I think he was our greatest President, I reply with 5 names: Alexander Hamilton, John Adams, James Madison, Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin. These men collectively were some of the greatest men of their age moving in circle with greats in America and Europe. Every one of them at one time or another, expressed the opinion that Washington was the greatest man they ever knew. Quod erat demonstrandum.
 
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He invented a science which truly reflected its etymology from the latin scientia, meaning "knowledge" and ultimately sciere, “to know.”
But I think he would have called it Natural Philosophy (Philosophia Naturalis, Filosofia Naturale),
the use of 'Science' for a discipline characterised by systematic empirical investigation and experimental method
really only emerges in English in the early 18th century, and I think in scholarly Latin and other European languages
no earlier than the late 17th.

teeth part is provably false)
you mean they weren't false, or they were?
 
But I think he would have called it Natural Philosophy (Philosophia Naturalis, Filosofia Naturale),
the use of 'Science' for a discipline characterised by systematic empirical investigation and experimental method
really only emerges in English in the early 18th century, and I think in scholarly Latin and other European languages
no earlier than the late 17th.

Oh my God! I can correct Eulalia for once. I think I've died and gone to heaven!

The Discourses and Mathematical Demonstrations Relating to Two New Sciences (Italian: Discorsi e Dimostrazioni Matematiche Intorno a Due Nuove Scienze, published in 1638 was Galileo's final book and a scientific testament covering much of his work in physics over the preceding thirty years.
you mean they weren't false, or they were?
The teeth were false, but not wood.
 
Oh my God! I can correct Eulalia for once. I think I've died and gone to heaven!

The Discourses and Mathematical Demonstrations Relating to Two New Sciences (Italian: Discorsi e Dimostrazioni Matematiche Intorno a Due Nuove Scienze, published in 1638 was Galileo's final book and a scientific testament covering much of his work in physics over the preceding thirty years.

Thanks, that's very interesting. I've been fascinated by the history of the way knowledge was carved up into disciplines ever since I first saw the inscriptions over the doors in the Schools Quad in Oxford (built in the early 1600s)- Schola Naturalis Philosophiae being one What exactly were the 'two new sciences'?
 
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