Milestones

[Eulalia]

Hamish Henderson

11 November 1919 - 8 March 2002

poet, songwriter and political activist
and father of Scotland's Folk Revival.

Hamish Henderson | Poet | Scottish Poetry Library

Hamish Henderson was the founding father of Scotland’s 20th-century folk renaissance. He himself collected, translated, composed and created in a wide variety of poetic and lyric forms, making it hard to classify him narrowly as a poet.

www.scottishpoetrylibrary.org.uk

 

[Frank Petrexa]

For Archimede, it was a bathtub, for Newton, an apple. For René Descartes it was a bad sleep.

Four hundred years ago, on a cold November 10th 1619, Descartes (1596 – 1650), then an officer in the army service of King Maximilian of Bavaria, took a sleep in a warm room, in the town of Neurenberg on Donau.

He must have slept badly, since he recalled he had three ‘visions’ that told him the way his life had to go on further.

In the wake of this experience, he was staring to the ceiling. The rectangular ceiling, with a cracked plaster pattern, made him think about a system of describing each point on a surface by two numbers, an ordered pair, referring to the position of the point relative to a horizontal and a vertical axis.

Four hundred years ago to this day, Cartesian geometry was born.

Yes, it was an important advance and is still an extremely useful tool today. But applied to the earth, it is only an approximation, and its existence is something of a boon to "flat earthers". Riemannian geometry actually uses it. Just as calculus splits problems up so that every little piece is a straight line, then fervently hopes that the solutions can be sewn back together, Rieman splits sufaces up into Cartesian spaces, and sews them together afterwards. Riemann, like Maxwell, died way too young.

 

[Migoz2]

Hamish Henderson

11 November 1919 - 8 March 2002

poet, songwriter and political activist
and father of Scotland's Folk Revival.

Hamish Henderson | Poet | Scottish Poetry Library

Hamish Henderson was the founding father of Scotland’s 20th-century folk renaissance. He himself collected, translated, composed and created in a wide variety of poetic and lyric forms, making it hard to classify him narrowly as a poet.

www.scottishpoetrylibrary.org.uk

I like that song, but I am somewhat perplexed by the 'translation'!

 

[thehangingtree]

There is a new book out (on which I have only seen a review) called "Appeasement" (by a guy named Boverie) which argues that Chamberlin was far from alone in his views--the entire British establishment (including his predecessor Stanley Baldwin) wanted to avoid war at almost any cost. (Franklin Roosevelt also thought he could "work with" Stalin, by the way, although at the time there wasn't much of a choice.) So one might say that if anyone came out a winner from the disaster of World War I, it was Hitler.

I'd have rather lost

 

[Frank Petrexa]

And they were from Frostbite Falls, Minnesota

Well, actually, Bullwinkle the Moose was from an island in Lake Superior called Moosylvania. One of the episodes showed Canadians in a rowboat pushing the floating border sign so Moosylvania was in the United States. Then people from the American side came out in a rowboat and pushed the sign back so the island was Canadian.
There is an interesting story. The people behind Rocky and Bullwinkle wanted to promote it, so they circulated a petition calling for "statehood for Moosylvania", gathered signatures, and drove it to the White House to present it to President Kennedy. They were stopped at the gate by a guard. They told him what they wanted. He drew his sidearm and said "get out of here". They had been on the road. They hadn't heard about the on-going Cuban Missile Crisis.

 

[Eulalia]

I like that song, but I am somewhat perplexed by the 'translation'!

Yes, it's a pretty poor one, I think it's meant to match the tune
in case anyone wants to sing it in Standard English - or as a warning not to try ...
But I choose that video as I think Luke Kelly's singing is the finest version of the many on YouTube
(though he of course was a Dubliner )

 

[Migoz2]

Yes, it's a pretty poor one, I think it's meant to match the tune
in case anyone wants to sing it in Standard English - or as a warning not to try ...
But I choose that video as I think Luke Kelly's singing is the finest version of the many on YouTube
(though he of course was a Dubliner )

I see Hamish Henderson also wrote the words to 'D Day Dodgers'.

 

[Frank Petrexa]

Yes, it's a pretty poor one, I think it's meant to match the tune
in case anyone wants to sing it in Standard English - or as a warning not to try ...
But I choose that video as I think Luke Kelly's singing is the finest version of the many on YouTube
(though he of course was a Dubliner )

Well, who's to say?

 

[Eulalia]

I like that song, but I am somewhat perplexed by the 'translation'!

Here's a straight translation by eul, with a few notes to explain ...

Rough the wind in the clear day’s dawning
Blows the clouds helter-skelter over the bay,
But there’s more than a rough wind blowing
Through the Great Glen* of the world today.
It’s a thought that will make our rats
– All those rogues that go arrogant, fresh and gay –
Take the road, and seek other bits of land
For their dirty tricks, to sport and play

No more will the fine young men
March to war when our boasters cruelly crow,
Nor little babes from pit-heads and hamlets
Mourn the ships sailing down the Broomielaw*.
Broken families in lands we’ve wasted,
Will curse Scotland the Brave* no more, no more;
Black and white, one to another married,
Make the vile barracks of their masters bare.

So come all you at home with Freedom,
Never heed what the hooded crows* croak for doom.
In your house all the children of Adam
Can find bread, whisky and a painted room.
When MacLean* meets with his friends in Springburn
All the roses and wild cherries will turn to bloom,
And a black boy from beyond Nyanga*
Throws* the fell gallows of the burghers* down.

The tune is 'The Bloody Fields of Flanders',
a march based on a traditional Perthshire tune,
by Pipe Major John McLellan, re-adapted by Hamish Henderson
for his lyrics.
*The Great Glen is the fault that cuts across the Scottish Highlands
from Inverness to Fort William, contains Loch Ness, but here a metaphor.
* Broomielaw: the embankment, now a roadway, on the north side of the Clyde,
passed by ships sailing from the docks.
* Scotland the Brave: best-known of all pipe marches,
but here a symbol for the country.
*hoodies: hooded crows, birds of ill omen
* John Maclean 1879-1923: schoolteacher and revolutionary socialist
of the Red Clydeside era.
* Springburn: working-class area of Glasgow,
one-time hotbed of left-wing activity.
* Nyanga: Black township in Cape Town
* Dings ... doon: echoes the marching song
of James V's force attacking the Douglas stronghold in 1528,
'Ding doon Tantalloun!'

 

[Migoz2]

Here's a straight translation by eul, with a few notes to explain ...

Rough the wind in the clear day’s dawning
Blows the clouds helter-skelter over the bay,
But there’s more than a rough wind blowing
Through the Great Glen* of the world today.
It’s a thought that will make our rats
– All those rogues that go arrogant, fresh and gay –
Take the road, and seek other bits of land
For their dirty tricks, to sport and play

No more will the fine young men
March to war when our boasters cruelly crow,
Nor little babes from pit-heads and hamlets
Mourn the ships sailing down the Broomielaw*.
Broken families in lands we’ve wasted,
Will curse Scotland the Brave* no more, no more;
Black and white, one to another married,
Make the vile barracks of their masters bare.

So come all you at home with Freedom,
Never heed what the hooded crows* croak for doom.
In your house all the children of Adam
Can find bread, whisky and a painted room.
When MacLean* meets with his friends in Springburn
All the roses and wild cherries will turn to bloom,
And a black boy from beyond Nyanga*
Throws* the fell gallows of the burghers* down.

The tune is 'The Bloody Fields of Flanders',
a march based on a traditional Perthshire tune,
by Pipe Major John McLellan, re-adapted by Hamish Henderson
for his lyrics.
*The Great Glen is the fault that cuts across the Scottish Highlands
from Inverness to Fort William, contains Loch Ness, but here a metaphor.
* Broomielaw: the embankment, now a roadway, on the north side of the Clyde,
passed by ships sailing from the docks.
* Scotland the Brave: best-known of all pipe marches,
but here a symbol for the country.
*hoodies: hooded crows, birds of ill omen
* John Maclean 1879-1923: schoolteacher and revolutionary socialist
of the Red Clydeside era.
* Springburn: working-class area of Glasgow,
one-time hotbed of left-wing activity.
* Nyanga: Black township in Cape Town
* Dings ... doon: echoes the marching song
of James V's force attacking the Douglas stronghold in 1528,
'Ding doon Tantalloun!'

Thanks! I was actually surprised by how much of the original verse I was able to understand, but that makes it much clearer, particularly with your gloss.

 

[Frank Petrexa]

Here's a straight translation by eul, with a few notes to explain ...

Rough the wind in the clear day’s dawning
Blows the clouds helter-skelter over the bay,
But there’s more than a rough wind blowing
Through the Great Glen* of the world today.
It’s a thought that will make our rats
– All those rogues that go arrogant, fresh and gay –
Take the road, and seek other bits of land
For their dirty tricks, to sport and play

No more will the fine young men
March to war when our boasters cruelly crow,
Nor little babes from pit-heads and hamlets
Mourn the ships sailing down the Broomielaw*.
Broken families in lands we’ve wasted,
Will curse Scotland the Brave* no more, no more;
Black and white, one to another married,
Make the vile barracks of their masters bare.

So come all you at home with Freedom,
Never heed what the hooded crows* croak for doom.
In your house all the children of Adam
Can find bread, whisky and a painted room.
When MacLean* meets with his friends in Springburn
All the roses and wild cherries will turn to bloom,
And a black boy from beyond Nyanga*
Throws* the fell gallows of the burghers* down.

The tune is 'The Bloody Fields of Flanders',
a march based on a traditional Perthshire tune,
by Pipe Major John McLellan, re-adapted by Hamish Henderson
for his lyrics.
*The Great Glen is the fault that cuts across the Scottish Highlands
from Inverness to Fort William, contains Loch Ness, but here a metaphor.
* Broomielaw: the embankment, now a roadway, on the north side of the Clyde,
passed by ships sailing from the docks.
* Scotland the Brave: best-known of all pipe marches,
but here a symbol for the country.
*hoodies: hooded crows, birds of ill omen
* John Maclean 1879-1923: schoolteacher and revolutionary socialist
of the Red Clydeside era.
* Springburn: working-class area of Glasgow,
one-time hotbed of left-wing activity.
* Nyanga: Black township in Cape Town
* Dings ... doon: echoes the marching song
of James V's force attacking the Douglas stronghold in 1528,
'Ding doon Tantalloun!'

The Rourke's Drift infantry company from the Michael Caine movie "Zulu" were Welsh if I recall, right? Same issue though. Of course, Shaka Zulu was an imperialist too.

 

[Loxuru]

Yes, it was an important advance and is still an extremely useful tool today. But applied to the earth, it is only an approximation, and its existence is something of a boon to "flat earthers". Riemannian geometry actually uses it. Just as calculus splits problems up so that every little piece is a straight line, then fervently hopes that the solutions can be sewn back together, Rieman splits sufaces up into Cartesian spaces, and sews them together afterwards. Riemann, like Maxwell, died way too young.

Our human brain is far from adapted to really understand nature. Mathematics is probably the best approximation we can achieve, but, as you say, we cannot go further than splitting up things in infinitely small lines and squares.

We reach our limits by trying to grab such numbers as ‘pi’, ‘e’ and ‘i’, which are likely proxies of what happens in the real natural world, while all we got was ten fingers. We started counting, found out that the counts could be used as ‘numbers’. We found out that we could make calculations with these numbers, and curiously, that we could describe the world around us with those calculations, and even use them to design such things as machines, airplanes, bridges,… and that these designs even work!

But when it comes to reality, we still are working with that simple tool called mathematics. The real nature and meaning of 'pi', 'e' and 'i' still eludes me.

 

[RacingRodent]

The Rourke's Drift infantry company from the Michael Caine movie "Zulu" were Welsh if I recall, right? Same issue though. Of course, Shaka Zulu was an imperialist too.

From the wikipedia article but substantiated elsewhere

Of the 122 soldiers of the 24th Regiment present at the Battle of Rorke's Drift, 49 are known to have been of English nationality, 32 were Welsh, 16 were Irish, one was a Scot, and three were born overseas. The nationalities of the remaining 21 are unknown.

Likely best to say British

 

[Eulalia]

The Rourke's Drift infantry company from the Michael Caine movie "Zulu" were Welsh if I recall, right? Same issue though. Of course, Shaka Zulu was an imperialist too.

From the wikipedia article but substantiated elsewhere

Of the 122 soldiers of the 24th Regiment present at the Battle of Rorke's Drift, 49 are known to have been of English nationality, 32 were Welsh, 16 were Irish, one was a Scot, and three were born overseas. The nationalities of the remaining 21 are unknown.

Likely best to say British

They were the 24th Regiment of Foot, based at Brecon,
which a couple of years later became the South Wales Borderers,
so a Welsh regiment, but not necessarily all Welsh soldiers.

 

[Eulalia]

Thanks! I was actually surprised by how much of the original verse I was able to understand, but that makes it much clearer, particularly with your gloss.

At the risk of over-exposing this fine song, I found this clip today,
as well as a good performance, it's worth watching to see the Italian Chapel -
built by Italian PoWs on Orkney when they were working on the Churchill Barriers,
dropping huge loads of rubble, concrete etc. into the sea between small islands,
to stop U-boats getting into Scapa Flow - a beautiful and very atmospheric place ...

 

[Rias]

At the risk of over-exposing this fine song, I found this clip today,
as well as a good performance, it's worth watching to see the Italian Chapel -
built by Italian PoWs on Orkney when they were working on the Churchill Barriers,
dropping huge loads of rubble, concrete etc. into the sea between small islands,
to stop U-boats getting into Scapa Flow - a beautiful and very atmospheric place ...

singa singa

 

[Frank Petrexa]

They were the 24th Regiment of Foot, based at Brecon,
which a couple of years later became the South Wales Borderers,
so a Welsh regiment, but not necessarily all Welsh soldiers.

Yes, that's what I remember reading--company B, second battalion,, 24th Foot--later the Queen's Own Welsh Borderers.

 

[Frank Petrexa]

Our human brain is far from adapted to really understand nature. Mathematics is probably the best approximation we can achieve, but, as you say, we cannot go further than splitting up things in infinitely small lines and squares.

We reach our limits by trying to grab such numbers as ‘pi’, ‘e’ and ‘i’, which are likely proxies of what happens in the real natural world, while all we got was ten fingers. We started counting, found out that the counts could be used as ‘numbers’. We found out that we could make calculations with these numbers, and curiously, that we could describe the world around us with those calculations, and even use them to design such things as machines, airplanes, bridges,… and that these designs even work!

But when it comes to reality, we still are working with that simple tool called mathematics. The real nature and meaning of 'pi', 'e' and 'i' still eludes me.

Don't forget "complex numbers". As I've said before, pi isn't "real" in the sense that nothing in nature is perfectly spherical, Plato be damned.
Here is Wigner's "The Unreasonable Effectiveness of Mathematics in the Natural Sciences".

The Unreasonable Effectiveness of Mathematics in the Natural Sciences

I guess this thread kind of went off in "tangents" (pardon the pun).

 

[RacingRodent]

Yes, that's what I remember reading--company B, second battalion,, 24th Foot--later the Queen's Own Welsh Borderers.

Part of the problem here is that at the time of Rorke's Drift the British Army was in transition. In 1870 the Army Enlistment (Short Service) Act was passed. This changed recruit enlistments from a stint of 12 years (with the option of another 12 years) to a stint of 7 and 5 in the reserves. Also recruitment prior to that was more general to the Army and across the 1870s was progressively changed to recruitment to local regiments, hence the title change of the 24th Foot. So in 1879 it is likely that 7 year men recruited locally would have been heavily diluted by remaining 12 (and indeed 24 year) men who had been recruited prior to the change in the rules.

 

[Frank Petrexa]

At the risk of over-exposing this fine song, I found this clip today,
as well as a good performance, it's worth watching to see the Italian Chapel -
built by Italian PoWs on Orkney when they were working on the Churchill Barriers,
dropping huge loads of rubble, concrete etc. into the sea between small islands,
to stop U-boats getting into Scapa Flow - a beautiful and very atmospheric place ...

The facade reminds me of San Xavier del Bac, the Spanish mission built near Tucson, Arizona, by Padre Eusebio Francisco Kino--like the many missions in California. All the "San"'s basically started as mission churches. (American frontiersmen tended more toward bars.)
Every state gets two memorial statues in the US Capitol. One of Arizona's is (or used to be) of Padre Kino.