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Odds And Ends And Anything You Fancy
- Thread starter Eulalia
- Start date
Hmmm... I think you'd decorate a cross nicely.
My thoughts exactly!
If that is indeed you dear Debbie then I would certainly like to see you decorate a cross, even manip you onto one if you are up for it
D
Debbie30
Guest
ThanksMy thoughts exactly!
If that is indeed you dear Debbie then I would certainly like to see you decorate a cross, even manip you onto one if you are up for it
CCM51
Spectator
Beats Tom and Jerry any day.
Hondoboot2
QUAESTOR PULCHRITUDINIS
This lovely young lady sure knows how to make a tie & vest look sexy
You just have to love painted on outfits.
You just have to love painted on outfits.
Fox-on-Cross
Great-Cruxinquisitor
Here's an interesting picture I've come across -
It's from a manuscript from about 1480-5 of a Middle French text called 'le secret de l'histoire naturelle',
actually a kind of geography of the world as imagined on the basis of classical and biblical sources and commentaries
in the later middle ages - indeed, at the very time Columbus was opening up a wider (and even weirder
) world -
this picture is of Kedar, the land named after the son of Ishmael somewhere to the east of Canaan,
('Woe is me that I am constrained to dwell in Mesech,
and to have my habitation among the tents of Kedar' Psalm 120:5)
envisaged as a wild and savage semidesert inhabited by apes and swarthy men dressed in animal skins,
with Afro haircuts, who belabour one another with clubs, barbecue wild beasts,
and help themselves to lassies in rather fetching little split-side mini-dresses!
It's from a manuscript from about 1480-5 of a Middle French text called 'le secret de l'histoire naturelle',
actually a kind of geography of the world as imagined on the basis of classical and biblical sources and commentaries
in the later middle ages - indeed, at the very time Columbus was opening up a wider (and even weirder
) world -this picture is of Kedar, the land named after the son of Ishmael somewhere to the east of Canaan,
('Woe is me that I am constrained to dwell in Mesech,
and to have my habitation among the tents of Kedar' Psalm 120:5)
envisaged as a wild and savage semidesert inhabited by apes and swarthy men dressed in animal skins,
with Afro haircuts, who belabour one another with clubs, barbecue wild beasts,
and help themselves to lassies in rather fetching little split-side mini-dresses!
old slave
FELIS RESPICIENS
Here's an interesting picture I've come across -
View attachment 547302
It's from a manuscript from about 1480-5 of a Middle French text called 'le secret de l'histoire naturelle',
actually a kind of geography of the world as imagined on the basis of classical and biblical sources and commentaries
in the later middle ages - indeed, at the very time Columbus was opening up a wider (and even weirder
this picture is of Kedar, the land named after the son of Ishmael somewhere to the east of Canaan,
('Woe is me that I am constrained to dwell in Mesech,
and to have my habitation among the tents of Kedar' Psalm 120:5)
envisaged as a wild and savage semidesert inhabited by apes and swarthy men dressed in animal skins,
with Afro haircuts, who belabour one another with clubs, barbecue wild beasts,
and help themselves to lassies in rather fetching little split-side mini-dresses!
What are the pair of grey animal feet hanging from the shoulders of the central man? He's wearing a complete skin? In which case, why do the girls get the pretty manufactured (woven?) dresses?
It just proves that knowing very little about a subject does not prevent artists and writers depicting it. A bit like this forum, actually.
Yes, I think the men are supposed to be wearing wild animal skins, that one with claws - and tail - still attached.
Maybe the women's tabard dresses are skins too (note the red 'lining'), but the one the 'captured' girl's wearing is off a very ornamental creature,
and does look like it might be hand-woven - perhaps she's been seized from some slightly more civilised neighbours.
Naraku
Draconarius
It's actually a pretty accurate depiction of sub-Saharan Africans as interpreted by someone who is only relying on second hand descriptions. Even the animal skins are correct for warriors. The clubs are wrong - Africans had metal weapons almost as long as Europeans - but, that may have been intended to make the people seem more primitive.Here's an interesting picture I've come across -
View attachment 547302
It's from a manuscript from about 1480-5 of a Middle French text called 'le secret de l'histoire naturelle',
actually a kind of geography of the world as imagined on the basis of classical and biblical sources and commentaries
in the later middle ages - indeed, at the very time Columbus was opening up a wider (and even weirder
this picture is of Kedar, the land named after the son of Ishmael somewhere to the east of Canaan,
('Woe is me that I am constrained to dwell in Mesech,
and to have my habitation among the tents of Kedar' Psalm 120:5)
envisaged as a wild and savage semidesert inhabited by apes and swarthy men dressed in animal skins,
with Afro haircuts, who belabour one another with clubs, barbecue wild beasts,
and help themselves to lassies in rather fetching little split-side mini-dresses!
In the following century, artist weren't any more accurate depicting American Indians; making them look like semi-naked Europeans.
Well, as I said, Kedar was to the east of Canaan, and its inhabitants were considered to be descendants of Kedar, son of Ishmael. The darkness of their skin reflects the (I believe correct) interpretation of the name Kedar as 'darkness', and dark skin was often taken to be a mark of being cursed by God - whether in the case of Cain, Ham (son of Noah, ancestor of the 'Hamitic' tribes of Africa) or Ishmael (son of Abraham's slave-woman Hagar, ancestor of the Arabs and other non-Hebrew 'Semitic' - descended from Shem - tribes) The 15th century artist was unlikely to have muddled them with black Africans (and would probably not have believed anyone could live south of the Sahara, it was assumed to be too hot) but the figures, like those ones of Native Americans, reflect the late mediaeval concept of the (generalised) 'savage'. The inhabitants of biblical Kedar are nowadays thought to have been nomads, ancestors of the Bedouin.
Loxuru
Graf von Kreuzigung
Actually, from the 13th century on, one of the possible locations of the legendary empire of Priest-King John was thought to be in Ethiopia, extending deep southward of the Sahara into Africa (yellow on the map).
Oh yes (though that's actually a Dutch map of 1603) - I think Prester John's kingdom was more usually located in central Asia,
but Nubia and Ethiopia were likewise on the edge of the known (to Europeans) world, and there was awareness
that there were Christians in those parts, so his kingdom might have been imagined in that region.
Arab and Indian traders of course knew the east coast of Africa, and their knowledge filtered through to Europe,
and the Portuguese were getting to know coastal west Africa. But 'le secret' seems to keep pretty much
to the traditional view of geography reflected in earlier mappae mundi like the one in Hereford Cathedral.
Here's a map from the 15th century giving a good idea of 'advanced' understanding of the world just before Columbus. It's allowing that there are inhabited lands south of the Equator, though 'Terra Incognita' begins in the tropics, and 'AEthiopia Interior' is a vast desert.
However, again, the 'savages' in the picture I posted are inhabitants of a country much nearer the very well-known and intensively studied lands of the Bible, somewhere in what would now be southern Syria or northern Jordan.
but Nubia and Ethiopia were likewise on the edge of the known (to Europeans) world, and there was awareness
that there were Christians in those parts, so his kingdom might have been imagined in that region.
Arab and Indian traders of course knew the east coast of Africa, and their knowledge filtered through to Europe,
and the Portuguese were getting to know coastal west Africa. But 'le secret' seems to keep pretty much
to the traditional view of geography reflected in earlier mappae mundi like the one in Hereford Cathedral.
Here's a map from the 15th century giving a good idea of 'advanced' understanding of the world just before Columbus. It's allowing that there are inhabited lands south of the Equator, though 'Terra Incognita' begins in the tropics, and 'AEthiopia Interior' is a vast desert.
However, again, the 'savages' in the picture I posted are inhabitants of a country much nearer the very well-known and intensively studied lands of the Bible, somewhere in what would now be southern Syria or northern Jordan.
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Loxuru
Graf von Kreuzigung
That is right. But either central Asia of Central Africa, both locations were whishful, from a European viewpoint, to have a mighty Christian empire in the back of the muslim world.
windar
Teller of Tales
Barbecue and lassies in split mini dresses? I'm not convinced that "woe is me" is the correct attitude. The Psalmist always was prone to negative outlooks and whining. ("How long o Lord shall I be beset by these lassies and their little dresses; all day and all night they tempt me...")('Woe is me that I am constrained to dwell in Mesech,
and to have my habitation among the tents of Kedar' Psalm 120:5)
envisaged as a wild and savage semidesert inhabited by apes and swarthy men dressed in animal skins,
with Afro haircuts, who belabour one another with clubs, barbecue wild beasts,
and help themselves to lassies in rather fetching little split-side mini-dresses!
Naraku
Draconarius
Arab merchants had set up a trading post on Zanzibar (off the coast of modern Tanzania) as early as the XI century. By the 1480's the Portuguese had traveled down the west coast as far as Cameroon. Information would have filtered back in terms like: "they have dark skin and very curly hair". An artist wanting to depict the inhabitants of a wild, unknown region - due east of Canaan would be Persia and India, which were better known civilized regions - he might draw on these descriptions.
I known that slit dressed looked familiar. I found the picture:Barbecue and lassies in split mini dresses? I'm not convinced that "woe is me" is the correct attitude. The Psalmist always was prone to negative outlooks and whining. ("How long o Lord shall I be beset by these lassies and their little dresses; all day and all night they tempt me...")
A little bit overdressed for the following event.