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Poll--Were you raised Catholic?

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twonines

Tribune
No, but I attended a Catholic Grammar School run by the Christian Brothers of Ireland, who had a fine reputation for beating learning into the most obdurate of scholars. Being one of only a few non catholics, it is where I honed my fist fighting skills at an early age.
 

jjjack

Magistrate
I do not agree very much with the definition of the Catholic religion as "a faith whose central image is a guy who is vaguely effeminate, mostly naked, hanging on a cross". I have never found anything effeminate in the figure of Christ. The crucifix represents the total dedication of Jesus to his mission of being a sacrificial lamb for the salvation of men. With the cross the condemned man even loses his dignity as a man who dies, unlike any other form of capital execution, to become one with the inanimate object to which he is affixed. In fact, the empty cross is enough to represent the sacrifice of Christ. The crucifix is not a simple person condemned to die, it is a "show", it is not the protagonist of the event but the object of the attention of the spectators. He is not expected to do or say anything, only to die slowly, without clothes and therefore defenseless and humiliated. The deprivation of clothes is the central element that makes it clear that the victim, the executioner and the spectator are not placed on the same level but the first is a step below the other two. I believe that to get to a dehumanization of the condemned just as strong one must arrive at the Nazi extermination camps, where man ceases to be such to simply become the working material of a factory that produces only death. In this case, however, dehumanization is such a serious source of guilt for the executioner that it must be hidden, erased, denied. The transformation of a subject into an object is the paradigm underlying which the "deviated" erotic vision of those who find their excitement is founded, not in meeting the other person and in sharing with them but in being alone protagonist or "subject" of the action, which as such requires an "object" on which to fall that action. This without wanting to give the term "deviated" a negative moral judgment (judgment that would also invest the undersigned) but only to make people think that the attraction towards this form of execution as a sexual fetish has nothing to do with religion, if anything, precisely because the cross is dehumanizing, it is also desecrating and therefore attracts the attention of those who do not feel particular religious sentiments.
I am catholic and practicing.
 

Loxuru

Graf von Kreuzigung
I do not agree very much with the definition of the Catholic religion as "a faith whose central image is a guy who is vaguely effeminate, mostly naked, hanging on a cross". I have never found anything effeminate in the figure of Christ. The crucifix represents the total dedication of Jesus to his mission of being a sacrificial lamb for the salvation of men. With the cross the condemned man even loses his dignity as a man who dies, unlike any other form of capital execution, to become one with the inanimate object to which he is affixed. In fact, the empty cross is enough to represent the sacrifice of Christ. The crucifix is not a simple person condemned to die, it is a "show", it is not the protagonist of the event but the object of the attention of the spectators. He is not expected to do or say anything, only to die slowly, without clothes and therefore defenseless and humiliated. The deprivation of clothes is the central element that makes it clear that the victim, the executioner and the spectator are not placed on the same level but the first is a step below the other two. I believe that to get to a dehumanization of the condemned just as strong one must arrive at the Nazi extermination camps, where man ceases to be such to simply become the working material of a factory that produces only death. In this case, however, dehumanization is such a serious source of guilt for the executioner that it must be hidden, erased, denied. The transformation of a subject into an object is the paradigm underlying which the "deviated" erotic vision of those who find their excitement is founded, not in meeting the other person and in sharing with them but in being alone protagonist or "subject" of the action, which as such requires an "object" on which to fall that action. This without wanting to give the term "deviated" a negative moral judgment (judgment that would also invest the undersigned) but only to make people think that the attraction towards this form of execution as a sexual fetish has nothing to do with religion, if anything, precisely because the cross is dehumanizing, it is also desecrating and therefore attracts the attention of those who do not feel particular religious sentiments.
I am catholic and practicing.
Interesting viewpoint, jjjack.
 

kursdata

Condemned
When I was a baby, my mother secretly took me to a Catholic church to be baptized because she was raised in a religious family, but my father's family was communist, and they never knew of my Catholic membership. While I was under 10, maybe I believed my mother's stories about Jesus and such (why should I doubt what my mother tells me about the world?), but I always thought about these as some kind of poorly researched historical and scientific facts instead of something to be worshipped, so I never prayed or had any religious experiences. The near-naked crucified Jesus images and statues was erotically interesting for me even as a preteen child - not in a homosexual way, as I'm straight, but rather in a masochistic-emphatic way. As I developed an analytical mind, I became more and more sceptical towards any supernatural, and turned to a definitely atheist adult.
 

fallenmystic

Governor
Probably it's not a thread for me, but I was raised as a Buddhist but I've grown to be an agnostic instead. As I'm not even a Christian, I've felt it rather interesting when I can notice particular fascination that some of the members seem to have of the image of crucifixion, when it appears not to be wholly erotic in its nature.

I can imagine how religious experiences from childhood can leave lasting impact on one's sentiments, like how I'm still trying to avoid killing even mosquitos or how I don't like fantasies dealing with extreme pain or death when I've long ceased to be a Buddhist. So, I can see how those who have raised as Christian tend to have a peculiar outlook on such a theme like crucifixion. As a non-Christian though, I can only guess and I'll never be able to feel it.

On a side note, I've also turned away from a religion for a similar reason as kursdata mentioned, but in my case, my scepticism didn't even allow me to become an atheist (it requires a proof to positively deny the existence of something) so I ended up being an agnostic.
 

poem21045

Governor
. . . in my case, my scepticism didn't even allow me to become an atheist (it requires a proof to positively deny the existence of something) so I ended up being an agnostic.
Thank you, fallenmystic. My thoughts exacty! (Except that I'm a recovering Catholic.)

I have been an agnostic for about the last 40 years of my life. I always say, atheists and the religiously devout have one thing in common: they're both fervent in their beliefs. Agnostics, on the other hand, realize that certainty is an illusion, and that, in the end, it doesn't matter so much what you believe as what you do in life.

Having said that, I still have respect for atheists and religious people, as long as they are contemplative and don't just blindly follow some set of beliefs. (And I'm not talking about just the conservative religious. I know atheists who are as stupidly strident in their rejection of religion/god as conservative religious are in their condemnation of anyone not in lockstep with them.)
 

ranger1

Magistrate
Two weeks, 55 views, and not a single response.

Let historians note that apostate630's first poll on Crux Forums went over like a depleted uranium balloon.

No matter. My ego's not on the line.
Somewhat belatedly I admit ( I have only now discovered your polling request), I fully appreciate your poll question and (perhaps) the reasoning behind it. I first went into a Catholic Orphanage at age 4 (St. Michaels at Baulkham Hills, Sydney NSW). I subsequently went to other Catholic Child Care institutions and was fortunate not to have suffered abuse by staff in any of them. Other inmates were another matter...

In relation to your interest in the subject, I was always fascinated by various portrayals of His crucifixion and felt a confusion of thoughts resulting from their depiction. I am still observant of Good Friday commemorative traditions and admit that this presents something of a paradox.

Hope this rekindles your interest in trying to identify a correlation between member's religious situational upbringing and interest in this crux themed forum. I hope the wait for my response is acceptable at your end.

Sincerely, Ranger1.

P.S. I chuckled over your use of "depleted uranium" ballon rather than the more familiar "lead ballon", given that uranium 238 decays to form lead 206 in only 4.46 billion years, supposedly. Lead is the last stable element in the Table, explaining perhaps its continued use in the metaphor.
 

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Loxuru

Graf von Kreuzigung
Probably it's not a thread for me, but I was raised as a Buddhist but I've grown to be an agnostic instead. As I'm not even a Christian, I've felt it rather interesting when I can notice particular fascination that some of the members seem to have of the image of crucifixion, when it appears not to be wholly erotic in its nature.

I can imagine how religious experiences from childhood can leave lasting impact on one's sentiments, like how I'm still trying to avoid killing even mosquitos or how I don't like fantasies dealing with extreme pain or death when I've long ceased to be a Buddhist. So, I can see how those who have raised as Christian tend to have a peculiar outlook on such a theme like crucifixion. As a non-Christian though, I can only guess and I'll never be able to feel it.

On a side note, I've also turned away from a religion for a similar reason as kursdata mentioned, but in my case, my scepticism didn't even allow me to become an atheist (it requires a proof to positively deny the existence of something) so I ended up being an agnostic.
I understand your cultural approach is different than here. There are however here in Europe other cultural and historical sources about crucifxion than solely Christ's crucifixion. On the other hand, here is of course a strong imprint of centuries of Christianity on the cultural environment, that even an atheist like me cannot evade or ignore. It has to do with the fact that Christianity is strongly entangled with the political history and cultural heritage in this part of the world.

I consider myself an atheist, but I do not feel the urge to prove fanatically that God does not exist, I just think, the world and the universe are even much more fascinating without assuming the intervention of any kind of deity, than with one.
 

Eva Inanna

Magistrate
P.S. I chuckled over your use of "depleted uranium" ballon rather than the more familiar "lead ballon", given that uranium 238 decays to form lead 206 in only 4.46 billion years, supposedly. Lead is the last stable element in the Table, explaining perhaps its continued use in the metaphor.

However, at 19.1 g/cm3, Uranium is far denser than lead (11.3 g/cm3), although both balloons will fall at the same speed
:wave:
 

ranger1

Magistrate
However, at 19.1 g/cm3, Uranium is far denser than lead (11.3 g/cm3), although both balloons will fall at the same speed
:wave:
Is the transition of Uranium atom (19.1 g/cm) to the lower density atom of Lead (11.3 g/cm) the result of the original Uranium atom shedding neutrons, please?
Is a vacuum environment necessary for both elements to fall at the same velocity?
 

fallenmystic

Governor
We started with a religion and ended up with science. It feels rather symbolic, doesn't it? :)

Symbolic of what, however, may depend on our respective stance about religion - some would see it as resembling how our civilisation has progressed, while others may feel reassured that religion and science can happily co-exist after all, at least in such a place as CF, where people show remarkable tolerance toward each other.
 
Yes, However attended Anglo-Catholic schools through college and Jesuit University for post-grad.
Crux interest ...dom't know where it came from, but always been transgender and submissive,,,go figure.80e5b8888a6016172cb297499b71f772.jpg
 
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ranger1

Magistrate
We started with a religion and ended up with science. It feels rather symbolic, doesn't it? :)

Symbolic of what, however, may depend on our respective stance about religion - some would see it as resembling how our civilisation has progressed, while others may feel reassured that religion and science can happily co-exist after all, at least in such a place as CF, where people show remarkable tolerance toward each other.
Yes, it is rather symbolic, to my mind. I still believe in the tenets taught by RC institutions from early childhood: I no longer in the institutions that taught them. To my mind, the Christian orthodoxy needs only to stretch their "start date" of "creation" further back than the currently held "Young Earth creationism" view of < 10,000 BC. If only tolerance of the compatibility of both "points of view" was evident among the followers of seemingly extreme Christianity.
 
Yes.
Notably, among the thousands of books we had at home there was a very old copy of a Holy Bible illustrated by Gustave Doré's engravings, packed with naked bodies in lascivious poses (or at least they looked lascivious to me, LOL). That, together with a copy of Krafft-Ebing's "Psychopathia Sexualis" (and many other minor entertainments) formed the base of my - alas, quite theoretical - sexual education.
Including my distorted view on so-called "sexual perversions", in particular the ones that - I believed - were affecting me.
The morale here is: leave your kids free to read everything, but please sometimes talk with them.
 
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