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Privacy, Death, Shame, Punishment

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For instance, the story could depict extreme fundamentalist religious society where a girl can never even dream of showing her bare face to other men who's not from her family. Or you can make it so that girls recieve such education that they take it as a grave sin just to imagine being aroused sexually by any other methods than a lawful bonding with her husband.
I did write a story about a religious fundamentalist sect (one that actually existed) that went so far as to practice total lifetime celibacy. They and their persecutors were all white Americans, but they were as fanatic in their way as the Taliban are today, though 100% pacifists so no roadside bombs for them.

 
Thanks for the story! I'm glad that you wrote a story with such an interesting (at least to me) premise and I can't wait to read it :)
 
Well this is going to get a little politically incorrect ... and somewhat speculative.
On a side note, I wonder why such extreme misogynistic aspects of some of the more fundamentalistic Islamic society aren't as often used as background settings for such stories as the Roman ones. When an Arab or Islamic society is used as such a setting in D/s fantasies, it's more often than not used to contrast the innocence of a civilized white girl against more 'barbaric' and probably more sensual and 'less civilized' non-white people, which may or may not be due to the author's own personal prejudices.

It's absolutely true that the hugely overwhelming majority of stories featuring Islamic society has that view of 'Orientalism' (in the 19th century painting sense, not the shove-Edward-Said-down-everyone's-throat sense).

Now some aspects of that may apply to reality, as the West or 'white people' do not have a monopoly on developing stereotypes ...

... there certainly are stereotypes about 'western/white' women that are perpetuated within Islamic culture, just as we have our own prejudices and tropes.

('Whiteness' is not really a helpful concept here though, as the line between Dar-al-Islam and Dar-al-Harb can't be drawn by skin color, a Turk isn't necessarily more 'colored' than a Greek, not to mention European nations that are historically of religiously mixed population, like Bosnia, Albania, Serbia, Bulgaria etc etc etc ... and of course the same is true of religious conflict within other populations ... racist ideologies of supremacy, and religious ideologies of supremacy, both function independent of each other though of course they can be stacked on top of each other when the outgroup someone wants to attack happens to be of both different belief and different heritage. The idea that putting on a hijab makes someone a 'person of color' is a recent innovation of Western progressivism)

But when you look at the representations of the 'Other' in the shape of 'barbarians' even the Romans romanticized them to some degree ... you'll find examples of them being characterized, while inferior in cultivation, strategy, insight etc. ... as nevertheless more virile, and a counter-example to the decadence that the Romans long criticized among their own.

Romanticizing the 'Muslim barbarian' took off in the Occident pretty much when Islam became a threat that, while still credible, was contained and not imminent.

Fantasizing about 'white slavery', abduction and Ghazi raids wasn't a thing while they were really happening all over, but ... after the Ottoman defeat in 1683 turned into a multi-generational phase of Islamic decline, it became all the rage as the 18th century progressed.
(e.g. Entführung aus dem Serail by Mozart)

The point here is that a potential but not imminent & daily present threat, is the one that will be fantasized about.

Once the threat is real and imminent, the fantasies stop and are replaced by "fight or flight".

People of a fishermens' village who nervously scanned the horizons for Barbary raiders will not have romantically fantasized about them such as people do, for whom that is just an 'unbelieeeeeevable story, can you imagine!?!?!'

Yazidi women I guess will not fantasize very much about getting abducted by Muslim slave raiders ...

... nor would I expect that West African women who had to watch their siblings, parents, friends taken into slavery, and bought and transported away by Europeans, will have fantasized about that ...

... it is to a certain degree a luxury phenomenon.

And one cliché about 'whiteness' that certainly has a kernel of truth,
... is that women buying "50 Shades of Grey" in droves, is a very 'white' thing.

And I will openly admit, that some events that have happened in Germany since 2015, have definitely stifled, silenced and put an end to my ability to fantasize about certain scenarios, because they became lived experience. That this actually makes me angry tells you how perverted I am.

I believe such strict social codes of conduct enforced on women in those extreme religious nations could serve as a perfect fantasy background for such stories.
...
Personally, I would very much love to read such stories someday on CF.

Who's going to write them?

Women in Iran, for instance, are plenty oppressed ... but also many of them are well educated. (They're supposed to contribute to the economy)
I just don't think they fantasize about degradation .. because it is day to day reality.
The song of fantasy is of course always 'I want what I can't have'.

Most Iranian men, as far as I have experienced, honestly despise the aspect of their culture that's degrading to women.
They won't be writing those stories either.

Those men of such cultures, however, who do exalt in the degradation of women, still won't write those stories ... because they are living it; why fantasize about degrading women, when you can join your local branch of the Basij and go and just do it, with government support.
Sadly it is those who currently dominate that culture despite being a minority.

All in all, oppressed women will not dream of oppression because it's their waking nightmare, and oppressing men will not dream of oppression because they already live and do it, it's the practice of their 'day game'.

Most people will write from the perspective of their own culture .... but those who are perceptive enough to write convincingly from the perspective of a different culture, will probably also be perceptive enough to realize, that the subjects of fantasy are also culturally developed... and that our subjects of fantasy, in an environment of largely realized sexual autonomy, don't apply to a different culture, that negates sexual autonomy.

(also in the climate today, at least in the West anyone attempting to write from a different perspective gets cancelled for cultural appropriation anyway)

So these stories will remain very rare, for reason of human experience.
 
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The point here is that a potential but not imminent & daily present threat, is the one that will be fantasized about...
I largely agree with your assessment. Even we can put aside more dramatic events like a war, simple prescence of such evils like racism or sexism in contemporary society can still be a deterrant factor when it comes to writing fantasies revolving around such themes.

Probably it could be a part of the reason why white people tend to feel more comfortable with such 'white girl vs non-white slaver' type stories than the opposite kinds. As most instances of racism both in the past and present involves descriminating of non-white people by white people, I can see how it may make them uncomfortable to fantasize about such a serious and real problem.

That being said, I also believe that it's part of the coping process we have, not unlike how we deal with such horrifying experiences we had during WWII. At first, we don't really talk about the matter because it's too painful even to think about it.

Then, we start to write stories or make films that depicts the horrors from that period. And when we no longer feel such intense stress when we think about the matter, we begin to write comedies about the event, or make jokes about it. When we can freely joke about Hitler, for instance, without triggering serious distress on many people, it means that now we all know what were so wrong about his ideas and that we have moved over. I think it's not much different about fantasizing about slavery based on racism.

Aside from that, I find it difficult to believe that enslaving and sexually abusing an African woman by an European colonizer is so much morally unforgivable than, say, crushing arms and legs of a white girl with a hammer and raping and torturing her until she dies. We can fantasize about the latter form of an atrocity because we all know that something like that should never happens in real life. And if we can draw such a line between the reality and our fantasy, I see no reason why we can't do the same for the former kind of fantasies.

Who's going to write them?
You know I'm an Asian who's writing a story in which white people call Asian girls a 'chink' or even 'monkeys'? :p

I have to admit that it sometimes makes me feel uneasy to be reminded that there are still such ignorant people who would use such slurs in real life. But I feel pretty confident that most, if not all, of our members here can perfectly discern what is permitted in real life and what should be only possible in a fantasy. I bet most of us here who enjoy reading or write such stories about torturing innocent girls to death have spent some time contemplating on the morality of such a hobby, and probably have ended up learning where to draw the lines.

If we can do that, I believe some of the people who are living in such society can one day do the same. Also, if we don't have much trouble fantasizing ourselves being an executioner or his victim in an empire that existed almost 2,000 years ago, I believe our imagination is also capable of creating such a fantasy in which we can be an ultra-conservative girl from a fanatical religious sect, for example.

Still, these are mostly minor points on which our opinions seem to diverge, and I really enjoyed reading your insights into this matter. Thanks much for sharing your thoughts! :)
 
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On a side note, I wonder why such extreme misogynistic aspects of some of the more fundamentalistic Islamic society aren't as often used as background settings for such stories as the Roman ones. When an Arab or Islamic society is used as such a setting in D/s fantasies, it's more often than not used to contrast the innocence of a civilized white girl against more 'barbaric' and probably more sensual and 'less civilized' non-white people, which may or may not be due to the author's own personal prejudices.
Maybe, because (although outside observers may perceive it so), misogyny is not a mainstream issue on this forum?
 
Maybe, because (although outside observers may perceive it so), misogyny is not a mainstream issue on this forum?
I find it quite interesting to hear that. Having such a fantasy myself, I haven't thought about the differences between abusing women and dispising them so far.

Even though we don't see many stories here which focus on misogyny as a main theme, many depict such scenes in which women are degraded in such ways that are specific to the gender - being called a 'slut' or 'cunt', or getting whipped on their breasts and so on.

Of course, sexually abusing this or that particular girl wouldn't mean that the man is a misogyny. But wouldn't we think of a white man to be a racist, if he owns a black slave and calls him or her using racial slurs? If using the 'N-word', for example, makes one a racist, why wouldn't calling someone a 'cunt' or 'slut' make one a misogyny?

If we can get away from being called a misogyny by thinking that we don't dispise all women but this particular slave whom we call a 'cunt', then shouldn't the same logic apply to a case where we call a particular person of African descent with the 'N-word', not every other person of the same ethnicity?

Of course, I'm not judging or calling anyone a hypocrite or anything. But I think it to be interesting, because I suspect it might be one of the cases we discussed earlier, regarding how we seem to see such problems as a taboo, even in a fantasy, which still have relevance in our society.

I mean, we don't crucify girls anymore, but we still have real racists and misogynistic people around us. So probably it made it diffcult for many of us to enjoy such fantasies using racism or misogyny as a theme, despite calling someone a 'cunt' or with the 'N-word' would be a much less of a crime than torturing a girl to death.
 
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I find it quite interesting to hear that. Having such a fantasy myself, I haven't thought about the differences between abusing women and dispising them so far.

Even though we don't see many stories here which focus on misogyny as a main theme, many depict such scenes in which women are degraded in such ways that are specific to the gender - being called a 'slut' or 'cunt', or getting whipped on their breasts and so on.

Of course, sexually abusing this or that particular girl wouldn't mean that the man is a misogyny. But wouldn't we think of a white man to be a racist, if he owns a black slave and calls him or her using racial slurs? If using the 'N-word', for example, makes one a racist, why wouldn't calling someone a 'cunt' or 'slut' make one a misogyny?

If we can get away from being called a misogyny by thinking that we don't dispise all women but this particular slave whom we call a 'cunt', then shouldn't the same logic apply to a case where we call a particular person of African descent with the 'N-word', not every other person of the same ethnicity?

Of course, I'm not judging or calling anyone a hypocrite or anything. But I think it to be interesting, because I suspect it might be one of the cases we discussed earlier, regarding how we seem to see such problems as a taboo, even in a fantasy, which still have relevance in our society.

I mean, we don't crucify girls anymore, but we still have real racists and misogynistic people around us. So probably it made it diffcult for many of us to enjoy such fantasies using racism or misogyny as a theme, despite calling someone a 'cunt' or with the 'N-word' would be a much less of a crime than torturing a girl to death.
Maybe this point. Here on the forum, it is about fantasy, some strange, unexplicable 'track' in people's mind. Such has nothing to do with RL misogyny or racism. What members post here as stories or pics, is not nessecarily a reflection of their real attitudes towards women or other races. They are just exploiting strange desires, which act at another level of their mind. So, this distinction should be made.
Conversely, people with real racist or misogynist thoughts, would also strongly disapprove what is going on here, because of their rather narrow mindset about what is right or wrong.
 
What members post here as stories or pics, is not nessecarily a reflection of their real attitudes towards women or other races. They are just exploiting strange desires, which act at another level of their mind. So, this distinction should be made.
Of course, it isn't! If what I post on CF had reflected my beliefs and attitudes in real life, I would just do the world a favour by commiting a suicide ;)
 
Some fascinating insights here. I'm personally more on the side of slavery and degradation, with death as a rare spice - perhaps because it' easier for me to imagine victims accepting the former then the latter. Less of a female focus than most too, as far as i can tell, although I do prefer them all else equal.

And I do love public punishments like the pillory or floggings, which tap into the similar feelings without death. On the other hand, death is good for a sense of doom - or at least the expectation is. Always room for an unexpected repreive or rescue - although on this forum, no-one should count on it.
 
Some fascinating insights here. I'm personally more on the side of slavery and degradation, with death as a rare spice - perhaps because it' easier for me to imagine victims accepting the former then the latter. Less of a female focus than most too, as far as i can tell, although I do prefer them all else equal.

And I do love public punishments like the pillory or floggings, which tap into the similar feelings without death. On the other hand, death is good for a sense of doom - or at least the expectation is. Always room for an unexpected repreive or rescue - although on this forum, no-one should count on it.
Right with you on the public punishments there!
 
So fo what it is worth, how is see things as a petite woman in her 50s.

1. The unfairness of the sentence, let’s face it the murderer or hardened solder going to the cross is a part of the deal, the little guy having the full weight of the state/government brought down on them. Especially a small woman like myself.

2. In my 20s and early 30s my body was lean and I happily wore a bikini (the high hip ones of the 80s). Now two children, four total pregnancies and both kids C sections, and frankly I wear a one piece these days. I have a bought 20 extra pounds on a 5 foot frame and some cellulite to be honest. Being forced to strip or being striped in front of a crowd or otherwise publicly would simply crush me. Further, other than my father possibly changing a diaper, only two men have ever seen me naked, and the first was a huge mistake from college. So to be exposed to strange men...

3. Then to have the memory of my existence be my agony, sprawled out and pinned naked for the entertainment of the leering crowds. The sheer pain of the ordeal as an object lesson, just much for me.
 
So fo what it is worth, how is see things as a petite woman in her 50s.

1. The unfairness of the sentence, let’s face it the murderer or hardened solder going to the cross is a part of the deal, the little guy having the full weight of the state/government brought down on them. Especially a small woman like myself.

2. In my 20s and early 30s my body was lean and I happily wore a bikini (the high hip ones of the 80s). Now two children, four total pregnancies and both kids C sections, and frankly I wear a one piece these days. I have a bought 20 extra pounds on a 5 foot frame and some cellulite to be honest. Being forced to strip or being striped in front of a crowd or otherwise publicly would simply crush me. Further, other than my father possibly changing a diaper, only two men have ever seen me naked, and the first was a huge mistake from college. So to be exposed to strange men...

3. Then to have the memory of my existence be my agony, sprawled out and pinned naked for the entertainment of the leering crowds. The sheer pain of the ordeal as an object lesson, just much for me.
I can't tell if uou like the idea or not...

Still good you posted though - looking at pics here, one might start to think that the cross was only for beautiful young women (and perhaps the occasional young man). But in truth, it knows no such limits - anu life, long or short, can end there if authority decides so.
 
So fo what it is worth, how is see things as a petite woman in her 50s.

1. The unfairness of the sentence, let’s face it the murderer or hardened solder going to the cross is a part of the deal, the little guy having the full weight of the state/government brought down on them. Especially a small woman like myself.

2. In my 20s and early 30s my body was lean and I happily wore a bikini (the high hip ones of the 80s). Now two children, four total pregnancies and both kids C sections, and frankly I wear a one piece these days. I have a bought 20 extra pounds on a 5 foot frame and some cellulite to be honest. Being forced to strip or being striped in front of a crowd or otherwise publicly would simply crush me. Further, other than my father possibly changing a diaper, only two men have ever seen me naked, and the first was a huge mistake from college. So to be exposed to strange men...

3. Then to have the memory of my existence be my agony, sprawled out and pinned naked for the entertainment of the leering crowds. The sheer pain of the ordeal as an object lesson, just much for me.
Good writing. Thanks for sharing your perspectives.
 
So fo what it is worth, how is see things as a petite woman in her 50s.

1. The unfairness of the sentence, let’s face it the murderer or hardened solder going to the cross is a part of the deal, the little guy having the full weight of the state/government brought down on them. Especially a small woman like myself.

2. In my 20s and early 30s my body was lean and I happily wore a bikini (the high hip ones of the 80s). Now two children, four total pregnancies and both kids C sections, and frankly I wear a one piece these days. I have a bought 20 extra pounds on a 5 foot frame and some cellulite to be honest. Being forced to strip or being striped in front of a crowd or otherwise publicly would simply crush me. Further, other than my father possibly changing a diaper, only two men have ever seen me naked, and the first was a huge mistake from college. So to be exposed to strange men...

3. Then to have the memory of my existence be my agony, sprawled out and pinned naked for the entertainment of the leering crowds. The sheer pain of the ordeal as an object lesson, just much for me.
For me, the more ashamed the victim, the more arousing for executioners and onlookers.

I prefer a imperfect embarrassed prudish woman, than an almost perfect but indiferent young slut.
 
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