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Reconstruction Of A Woman's Crucifixion

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Does anybody know where these images came from or who created them? Seems like I've seen them on GettyImages or something like that, which I wouldn't normally associate with porn or with historical reenactment. Just wondering who went to the trouble to do it. (But maybe I just don't know anything about Getty.) :)
The documentary is called (surprise!) "Crucifixion", and is available on Amazon on DVD (in English). The dubbed Spanish version posted here seems complete and gives you the flavor--expert talking heads interspersed with dramatizations which may or may not be accurate. The female dramatizations are less than five minutes long in total. There is also a pretty exhaustive book called "Crucifixion in the Mediterranean World" by a guy named John Granger Cook, which has illustrations of some of the graffiti--including "Alkimilla" in the Puteoli graffito. In my fairly uninformed opinion (not being an expert in this area), there is very little detailed material to go on about procedures and methods, and it is probably that there wasn't a "manual" or "legal protocol" for "crucifixion". Maybe Dr. Who could lend us a time machine to do more research--especially on documented incidents such as those during the 70's revolt in Judea and the crucifixion of Ide under Tiberius. If anyone can persuade him to cooperate, let us all know.
 
The only one like that I can remember was a piece out of a graphic novel where there were a lot of women and maybe men too crucified along a road. Didn't impress me much which is why I don't remember a lot about it. I think that was the one with a cigar-smoking Roman centurion. Sorry I don't know where to find it, but maybe someone else does.

Maybe you are referring to this one:
30-01-05 - 002.jpg 30-01-05 - 042.jpg 30-01-05 - 043.jpg 30-01-05 - 044.jpg 30-01-05 - 045.jpg
 
I've this comic and I've already shown these crucifixions'pics in another thread ; I was reading somewhere that to be crucified face to the cross was to add to the crucifixion'shame ... Perhaps, I dont know ...;)
Not sure that anything could add to the shame and horror of being nailed to a piece of wood to die.
 
That's the one I was thinking of. I guess the cigar-smoking centurion was in another story.

Yes the cigar smoking centurion is in a story by Silvio Dante, Caesar's Palace
Caesar's_Palace_010.jpg

I hadn't seen so much of that comic story before, Messa, although it's been appearing on and off for years.

Here are some more facing the cross pics. On the one hand, the woman is a little bit more shielded from view, maybe a little more protected? On the other, wrapped around the cross like that she almost looks as if she is making love to it.
Kathy rear 080110 05.jpg Kathy rear 080110 04.jpg Kathy rear 080110 03a.jpg Kathy rear 080110 01.jpg Kathy rear 072910 x 2 alt.jpg

and a bonus pic
hugging_the_cross_by_buffalor5-d9m27bi.jpg
 
Not sure that anything could add to the shame and horror of being nailed to a piece of wood to die.

I agree! But I wonder if, given our modern context we can truly understand what a Roman crucifixion victim would feel. As horrible as it was, it was the status quo, and maybe a fairly common sight. By the time of Christ, no one could have remembered a time when criminals, slaves, etc. were not crucified. With rare exceptions, the crowds who watched crucifixions regarded this as a just punishment - one exception I can think of would have been the crowds at the mass crucifixions of the slaves of Pedanius Secundus, all 400 of them crucified because someone murdered their master.

So in the mind of a victim, being stripped and nailed to a cross would have been horrible, but it would have been expected. They would have known what was going to be done to them, for the most part, and they would have expected that people would be there to watch, and no one would do anything to help them. That was just the way it was.
 
I agree! But I wonder if, given our modern context we can truly understand what a Roman crucifixion victim would feel. As horrible as it was, it was the status quo, and maybe a fairly common sight. By the time of Christ, no one could have remembered a time when criminals, slaves, etc. were not crucified. With rare exceptions, the crowds who watched crucifixions regarded this as a just punishment - one exception I can think of would have been the crowds at the mass crucifixions of the slaves of Pedanius Secundus, all 400 of them crucified because someone murdered their master.

So in the mind of a victim, being stripped and nailed to a cross would have been horrible, but it would have been expected. They would have known what was going to be done to them, for the most part, and they would have expected that people would be there to watch, and no one would do anything to help them. That was just the way it was.
Seems pretty much what people do today as well!
 
Not sure that anything could add to the shame and horror of being nailed to a piece of wood to die.
Anyway, I wasn't saying that it adds to the shame, only wondering ...;)

But viewing what Jedakk is telling and the Phlebas'pics, I doubt that the roman soldiers could take much more time and have much more difficulties in nailing someone like that ...:D
 
Thanks for the feed-back. I also don't like the 'cigar-smoking' drawing because it's too kitsch (tobacco was imported in Europe at least 1400 years after Roman Empire) but I do like the comics Attila Mon Amour by Mitton, in fact I bought the paper copy in my language.

I was referring not only to graphic novels and comics but also to single drawing/photos and stories/novels to be read.

I think that Crux Dreams has a serie with a face-to-cross crucifiction very suggestive.
 
Thanks for the feed-back. I also don't like the 'cigar-smoking' drawing because it's too kitsch (tobacco was imported in Europe at least 1400 years after Roman Empire) but I do like the comics Attila Mon Amour by Mitton, in fact I bought the paper copy in my language.

I was referring not only to graphic novels and comics but also to single drawing/photos and stories/novels to be read.

I think that Crux Dreams has a serie with a face-to-cross crucifiction very suggestive.

Makar did a few cross facing pics, here are some of them

chr0009-09.jpg indoor16.jpg indoor17.jpg

I agree! But I wonder if, given our modern context we can truly understand what a Roman crucifixion victim would feel. As horrible as it was, it was the status quo, and maybe a fairly common sight. By the time of Christ, no one could have remembered a time when criminals, slaves, etc. were not crucified. With rare exceptions, the crowds who watched crucifixions regarded this as a just punishment - one exception I can think of would have been the crowds at the mass crucifixions of the slaves of Pedanius Secundus, all 400 of them crucified because someone murdered their master.

So in the mind of a victim, being stripped and nailed to a cross would have been horrible, but it would have been expected. They would have known what was going to be done to them, for the most part, and they would have expected that people would be there to watch, and no one would do anything to help them. That was just the way it was.

Still, not something that you would want done to you. Tortured and humiliated is still tortured and humiliated, whether it is a part of your culture or not!
 
Still, not something that you would want done to you. Tortured and humiliated is still tortured and humiliated, whether it is a part of your culture or not!

True, but so much of shame, and pain too, is related to a person's expectation. In Arizona in the 1880s, you knew that if they caught you and brought you back alive after you robbed the stagecoach and killed the driver, they were going to hang you publicly. You'd probably have seen people hanged before and you understood the risk. It would all be over in a few minutes.

In the first century AD, if you were not a Roman citizen and you robbed and killed people on the Appian Way, if they caught you they were going to crucify you, with all that entailed. You'd seen people crucified before, and you knew what that meant. You understood the risk, that if you were caught, it meant agonizing torture and humiliation that would go on for days, that they would dehumanize you and take away all dignity, modesty, self-control, everything, and somehow you balanced that with the rewards of your crime in your mind.

Today in the US, you'd probably do your time, get "rehabilitated" and stick to cooking meth when you got out.
 
True, but so much of shame, and pain too, is related to a person's expectation. In Arizona in the 1880s, you knew that if they caught you and brought you back alive after you robbed the stagecoach and killed the driver, they were going to hang you publicly. You'd probably have seen people hanged before and you understood the risk. It would all be over in a few minutes.

In the first century AD, if you were not a Roman citizen and you robbed and killed people on the Appian Way, if they caught you they were going to crucify you, with all that entailed. You'd seen people crucified before, and you knew what that meant. You understood the risk, that if you were caught, it meant agonizing torture and humiliation that would go on for days, that they would dehumanize you and take away all dignity, modesty, self-control, everything, and somehow you balanced that with the rewards of your crime in your mind.

Today in the US, you'd probably do your time, get "rehabilitated" and stick to cooking meth when you got out.
And make more contact's in prison!
 
True, but so much of shame, and pain too, is related to a person's expectation. In Arizona in the 1880s, you knew that if they caught you and brought you back alive after you robbed the stagecoach and killed the driver, they were going to hang you publicly. You'd probably have seen people hanged before and you understood the risk. It would all be over in a few minutes.

In the first century AD, if you were not a Roman citizen and you robbed and killed people on the Appian Way, if they caught you they were going to crucify you, with all that entailed. You'd seen people crucified before, and you knew what that meant. You understood the risk, that if you were caught, it meant agonizing torture and humiliation that would go on for days, that they would dehumanize you and take away all dignity, modesty, self-control, everything, and somehow you balanced that with the rewards of your crime in your mind.

Today in the US, you'd probably do your time, get "rehabilitated" and stick to cooking meth when you got out.

And another thought on this, in the gospel of Luke, one of the two thieves crucified along with Jesus made the statement "And we indeed are suffering justly, for we are receiving what we deserve for our deeds."

I doubt if he would have been able to get all of that out smoothly. He probably had to strain to push the words out one at a time because it was hard to exhale, and those came between gasps for breath or groans of agony. So maybe the writer omitted those and paraphrased it some. But it is an example of the balance that existed in people's minds of the time, where crimes that today might get you jail time would have naturally merited such a horrific punishment.
 
And another thought on this, in the gospel of Luke, one of the two thieves crucified along with Jesus made the statement "And we indeed are suffering justly, for we are receiving what we deserve for our deeds."

I doubt if he would have been able to get all of that out smoothly. He probably had to strain to push the words out one at a time because it was hard to exhale, and those came between gasps for breath or groans of agony. So maybe the writer omitted those and paraphrased it some. But it is an example of the balance that existed in people's minds of the time, where crimes that today might get you jail time would have naturally merited such a horrific punishment.
Well, Luke likes stories: he has Jesus sent to Herod (adding more time to what needed to be done to get him crucified by the "third hour") who becomes reconciled and good friends with Pilate; he has Jesus say "Father, forgive them for they know not what they do"; he has Jesus at 12 in the temple wowing the learned; he has John the Baptist be the cousin of Jesus, miraculously conceived by an aged, "barren" mother, in a conception announced by an angel to a priestly father; he has the manger and the shepherds story and heavens filled with angels (Matthew has Jesus born in a house). The other synoptics specifically say BOTH criminals reviled Jesus. So, I would guess that Luke just made this up to emphasize Jesus' specialness and wasn't concerned about how credible it was. In the later centuries, "apochryphal" gospels made up even weirder stuff, like a talking cross.
 
There are precedents for personifying the cross, speaking of it as a person, in patristic literature,
though I'm not sure if there are any actually in the apocryphal gospels, but I believe the 8th century
Ruthwell Cross inscription(the early version of the Old English 'Dream of the Rood') is the earliest text
in which the cross actually speaks - and a very fine poem it is too, arguably the oldest surviving poem in English
(competing with Caedmon's Hymn, but the OE version of that is probably rather later)
 
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