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Yeah, but did they shave their pubes? :p
OMG. Is that what you meant? :oops::oops::oops:

You have to forgive me. I had a very sheltered upbringing. I didn't know women had pubes until I was 22, let alone hair on them!:confused:
 
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A question. Going back several days to “Poledancer” which is really fine. It has long been my thinking, with apologies to tradition and Apostate’s distaste for crux simplex, that the large majority of Roman crucifixions were likely done with a single pole. It would have so much simpler: no construction; fewer scarce materials; no hole to dig just find a tree. Easier and quicker particularly during a military campaign.
Any thoughts?
 
A question. Going back several days to “Poledancer” which is really fine. It has long been my thinking, with apologies to tradition and Apostate’s distaste for crux simplex, that the large majority of Roman crucifixions were likely done with a single pole. It would have so much simpler: no construction; fewer scarce materials; no hole to dig just find a tree. Easier and quicker particularly during a military campaign.
Any thoughts?

There are several threads in this section discussing time to die and technique, if you search backwards. My understanding is that crux simplex, with arms vertical, kills quicker. So for a good sadistic arena-type show, you need a cross where the arms are angled, but if the aim is a gruesome death to impress the survivors but time/supplies are limited, nothing at all wrong with nailing to a tree. If death alone is the object, what's wrong with a simple sword thrust?

Some good pics of crux simplex here:
http://www.cruxforums.com/xf/threads/crux-simplex.2571/
Crux Simplex
 
There are several threads in this section discussing time to die and technique, if you search backwards. My understanding is that crux simplex, with arms vertical, kills quicker. So for a good sadistic arena-type show, you need a cross where the arms are angled, but if the aim is a gruesome death to impress the survivors but time/supplies are limited, nothing at all wrong with nailing to a tree. If death alone is the object, what's wrong with a simple sword thrust?

And the Romans had all kinds of options for arena entertainment. :eek:
 

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There are several threads in this section discussing time to die and technique, if you search backwards. My understanding is that crux simplex, with arms vertical, kills quicker. So for a good sadistic arena-type show, you need a cross where the arms are angled, but if the aim is a gruesome death to impress the survivors but time/supplies are limited, nothing at all wrong with nailing to a tree. If death alone is the object, what's wrong with a simple sword thrust?

Some good pics of crux simplex here:
http://www.cruxforums.com/xf/threads/crux-simplex.2571/
Crux Simplex

As I understand it, execution of 'noxi' - people the authorities and the mob wanted rid of - typically took place during the two hours or so in the middle of the day while the gladiators took a siesta and the audience found shady spots to eat and drink and relax while enjoying the scenes of cruelty going on in the arena. So if crucifixion was on the programme, it wouldn't have been the long-drawn-out death of wretches dying along the highways - more likely the 'noxi' were nailed up and tortured to death in hideous, but relatively quick, ways, and cruces simplices might well have been adequate for this. Exposure to wild animals, grotesquely unequal contests with professional gladiators, tearing apart by oxen and many more ingenious spectacles were of course alternatives.
 
I understand some arenas could be flooded to stage simulated sea battles----- a few noxi gently drowning will keep the crowd entertained while the water rises.

Lots of artist's conceptions around, but I can’t think of any feature films that have tried to recreate a nautica, though.
 

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I understand some arenas could be flooded to stage simulated sea battles----- a few noxi gently drowning will keep the crowd entertained while the water rises.
Indeed, the arena of the Colosseum could be turned into a lake for such displays -
I think the Greek term 'naumachia', 'ship-battle' was used -
and I rather think Marital mentions condemned noxi (or female noxae)
being made to row leaky boats around the arena until they sank
and the crews (who probably couldn't swim, especially in chains) drowned.
 
The Colosseum was flooded for mock naval battles during the opening games in 80 CE. The arena was built in a low lying area that had been an artificial lake within Nero's Domus Aurea. The lake had been fed by water from the nearby Aqua Claudia aqueduct which likely could have been used to flood the Colosseum. Archeologists believe they have found a drain beneath the arena that connects to the Cloaca Maxima, the city's main sewer. Both flooding and draining would have taken time, perhaps all day, so it doesn't seem likely that it was a regular event.
The Emperor Domitian, who was assassinated in 96 CE, ordered the building of a complex of tunnels, cages, elevators and trapdoors beneath the Colosseum which made flooding impossible, so the window in which nauachia could be stage was only about 16 years.

I read a story many years ago - I don't recall where and it may have been fictional - about an event held in the flooded Colosseum. Boats with naked slave girls playing lyres and singing were rowed around the arena. At a signal, the rowers, who were below decks, opened trapdoors and swam out; causing the boats to begin sinking. At the same time crocodiles and hippos were released into the arena. Hippos may seem docile but they are extremely dangerous. One slave girl bumped into a hippo while trying to swim to safety. The hippo chomped down on her with its massive teeth and cut her in two.

Domitian is traditional considered to have instituted the first Empire wide persecution of Christians (Nero's was confined to Rome itself). Historians are uncertain if this is true. There are no contemporary accounts and the martyrdom stories set in his reign were writen over a century later. But, if it is true, then the first execution of Christians in the Colosseum took place during his reign.
 
The Colosseum was flooded for mock naval battles during the opening games in 80 CE. The arena was built in a low lying area that had been an artificial lake within Nero's Domus Aurea. The lake had been fed by water from the nearby Aqua Claudia aqueduct which likely could have been used to flood the Colosseum. Archeologists believe they have found a drain beneath the arena that connects to the Cloaca Maxima, the city's main sewer. Both flooding and draining would have taken time, perhaps all day, so it doesn't seem likely that it was a regular event.
The Emperor Domitian, who was assassinated in 96 CE, ordered the building of a complex of tunnels, cages, elevators and trapdoors beneath the Colosseum which made flooding impossible, so the window in which nauachia could be stage was only about 16 years.

I read a story many years ago - I don't recall where and it may have been fictional - about an event held in the flooded Colosseum. Boats with naked slave girls playing lyres and singing were rowed around the arena. At a signal, the rowers, who were below decks, opened trapdoors and swam out; causing the boats to begin sinking. At the same time crocodiles and hippos were released into the arena. Hippos may seem docile but they are extremely dangerous. One slave girl bumped into a hippo while trying to swim to safety. The hippo chomped down on her with its massive teeth and cut her in two.

Domitian is traditional considered to have instituted the first Empire wide persecution of Christians (Nero's was confined to Rome itself). Historians are uncertain if this is true. There are no contemporary accounts and the martyrdom stories set in his reign were writen over a century later. But, if it is true, then the first execution of Christians in the Colosseum took place during his reign.

Daniel Mannix's "Those About to Die" (aka "The Way of the Gladiator") has this story about the girls in the arena. I can't remember whether it is his invention or historical. The book is well worth reading, and was a major influence on the film "Gladiator".

Other works of interest include "The Hellfire Club" and "The History of Torture". One of his books was filmed by Disney! Sadly it was "The Fox and the Hound" and not the above works.
 
Daniel Mannix's "Those About to Die" (aka "The Way of the Gladiator") has this story about the girls in the arena. I can't remember whether it is his invention or historical. The book is well worth reading, and was a major influence on the film "Gladiator".

Other works of interest include "The Hellfire Club" and "The History of Torture". One of his books was filmed by Disney! Sadly it was "The Fox and the Hound" and not the above works.
That title rings a bell. It must have been a library copy as I don't think I ever owned it and, if my aging memory is correct, I was maybe 12 or 13 at the time. I'll have to check online.
 
Daniel Mannix's "Those About to Die"

My first proper stay away from home and parental/relative supervision----a school residential at Jesus College, Oxford. I found that book in Blackwells, and read it in my room at night, free to read as long as I liked!

I don't remember much about the academic week (something like "Illusion and Reality") but I learnt an awful lot about ancient Rome and about myself. It wasn't hard to visualise my college bedroom as a prison cell either, ground floor, outside wall, therefore only a high barred window.
 
If you’re an American boomer who read comic books, then you remember this ad. I do, and it cemented in my mind amazingly erroneous concepts of Roman arms, armor and tactics that I didn’t shake until the Carter administration.

And I haven’t wholly shaken them. To this day first image that springs to mind when I think "legionnaires" may be seen below.
 

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If you’re an American boomer who read comic books, then you remember this ad. I do, and it cemented in my mind amazingly erroneous concepts of Roman arms, armor and tactics that I didn’t shake until the Carter administration.

And I haven’t wholly shaken them. To this day first image that springs to mind when I think "legionnaires" may be seen below.
I remember those ads. The reality wasn't quite up to the artwork:
soldiers1.JPGsoldiers2.JPGsoldiers3.JPGsoldiers4.JPG
The little catapult things might have been fun. But, the green army men were probably a better bargain.
 
It's certainly true that sculptures and other monuments and architectural features were brightly coloured in Classical times -
and in medieval churches too, which would probably look as alarmingly gaudy to modern western, especially Protestant, eyes
as Hindu temples often do. I think the charge in the article that the assumption of whiteness was due to white racism is a bit facile,
it's trotted out so readily at every excuse to signal political correctness. In any case, not all the statues were white marble,
although that was favoured, other colours of marble, as well as bronze, were popular at different times.
I think it may be more to the point that museums and art schools (often closely linked in the 18th - 19th centuries)
were stocked with replicas made from plaster casts, and these were left uncoloured, so that's what students and the general public got to see.

Eulalia, I grew up with that, in the 19th and 20th century up to the 60s at least Catholic churches were no strangers to the gaudy or the polychrome. Part of a long tradition, possibly going back through medieval to classical times?
images (1).jpgshutterstock_95274544-660x350.jpgSweetest_Heart_of_Mary_Catholic_Church_(Detroit,_MI)_-_statue_of_Saint_Anne_educating_the_Bles...jpgcache_952281654.jpgcatholic-statues-image.jpgmany-lovely-statues.jpg

As with so much, our perception of ancient art is skewed by the actions of our 18th and 19th century forebears.
Places like the V&A's plaster cast rooms were as close as ordinary people would get to those foreign treasures.
victoria-and-albert-museum-london.jpgcast-3.jpgcast-courts_610.jpg

I remember those ads. The reality wasn't quite up to the artwork:
View attachment 640632View attachment 640633View attachment 640634View attachment 640635
The little catapult things might have been fun. But, the green army men were probably a better bargain.

Wow. Part of that great tradition of military flats, but they do lack detail! Amazing.
I remember seeing those ads, but I grew up with Airfix, and their figures were better, and shaped my own image of Romans as a child.
http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/review.aspx?id=610
AIR01730d.jpg
 
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