Loxuru
Graf von Kreuzigung
Doubtful!Serves him right for using female slaves to row his ships!
Cleopatra : "Mark Antony! If you ever dare fooling around with one of these slaves, I scratch out your eyes and I run to Octavian!"
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Roman Resources
- Thread starter RacingRodent
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Cleopatra : "Mark Antony! If you ever dare fooling around with one of these slaves, I scratch out your eyes and I run to Octavian!"
Doubtful!
Cleopatra : "Mark Antony! If you ever dare fooling around with one of these slaves, I scratch out your eyes and I run to Octavian!"
Frankly, Cleo, I don’t give a damn!
(oops, wrong movie?)
Loxuru
Graf von Kreuzigung
Absolutely not!
Finally, a sound historical explanation why Cleopatra has gone with the wind during the battle of Actium!
What is less commonly known is that the deployment of galleys rowed by female slaves at Actium revolutionized naval warfare for about twenty minutes.
Attachments
Praefectus Praetorio
R.I.P. Brother of the Quill
#3 is totally unacceptable treatment of the women. They are NOT totally naked!
Such "IFS" are very big. By this time, Antony had showed himself to be very unstable. With Cleo, he had also moved toward the Eastern God-King concept. Rome and the Western regions would never have been comfortable with him or that concept. Within a hundred years, we would have seen a fragmented Mediterraean world. This would probably result in these outcome:
Much earlier fall to the Germanic/Barbarian tribes.
Spread of Christianity would be restricted due to multiple regions. (No guess as the the difference for Jesus under a Egyptian/Antonine Empire)
Parthian Empire would have conquered and held the Levant, changing the cultural direction there. Fate of the Jews there is impossible to know.
We would not have many words that came from the Empire (Empire, Emperor, Caesar, Kaisar, Czar, Palace, Prince, Count, etc.)
We out of the Northern Isles, would be speaking a more unalloyed Germanic language without the Latin.
2000 years down the road, probably not. At that point the Roman Republic already ruled a fairly vast chunk of what came to be known as the Empire.
It's doubtful Anthony and Cleopatra could have conquered and Egyptified Rome. I think at most direct Roman rule of the Mediterranean, Western Europe and the near east would have been delayed by a generation or two.
RacingRodent
Consul
If Anthony and his Eastern Queen somehow been able to remain a power for longer I think you can be sure the modern world would be unrecognisable but the rise of Rome was by this stage, I would contend, close to unstoppable. Eventually an oligarch or populist leader would have achieved and held supreme power and the drive east would have resumed. Even without a strong central leadership the nature of Roman politics is such that there would have been repeated military expeditions to the east.
Loxuru
Graf von Kreuzigung
One extreme outcome : the Papal seat in Alexandria.
Another one : an early breaking up of the 'empire' in an eastern and a western part, with Parthian control over the Levant. No spreading of Christianity, No Nero, no Christians to persecute. No juicy shows in the circus.
Crucifixion would have been a forgotten way of execution. This forum would not exist!
Another one : an early breaking up of the 'empire' in an eastern and a western part, with Parthian control over the Levant. No spreading of Christianity, No Nero, no Christians to persecute. No juicy shows in the circus.
Crucifixion would have been a forgotten way of execution. This forum would not exist!
RacingRodent
Consul
Crucifixion would have been a forgotten way of execution. This forum would not exist!
Just a little more niche is all, I am sure crux would remain a thing
Crucifixion would have been a forgotten way of execution. This forum would not exist!
For Jupiter's sake man, get a hold of yourself!
Loxuru
Graf von Kreuzigung
Frank Petrexa
Tribune
Cleopatra was of course Greek. Judea was also Greek territory before Rome, the result of splitting Alexander's empire. Much of the old Testament (notably Daniel, but also Ruth and Macchabes) are reactions to Greek rule. I'm not sure how "oriental" things would have turned out. It would certainly have been different, however.
I think it's important to remember that by that time, the Eastern Mediterranean, Asia Minor, Levant and Egypt
was, and remained ever more so the most populous and prosperous part of the 'Roman' world.
In the end, Britannia, and even Gaul and Hispania, were 'dispensable'.
Something that's come up recently on another thread and reappears from time to time -
we need to remember that Respublica and Imperium did not mean to the Romans
the same as Republic and Empire mean to us - the Res Publica, 'public affair'
corresponded rather to our 'civil society, even 'state'. Our modern distinction
is really a product of the American and French revolutions and 19th century 'empires'.
Edward Gibbon, in his 'History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
regularly, and quite correctly, referred to the Roman state as 'the Republic',
even though it was a Republic ruled by an Emperor.
was, and remained ever more so the most populous and prosperous part of the 'Roman' world.
In the end, Britannia, and even Gaul and Hispania, were 'dispensable'.
Something that's come up recently on another thread and reappears from time to time -
we need to remember that Respublica and Imperium did not mean to the Romans
the same as Republic and Empire mean to us - the Res Publica, 'public affair'
corresponded rather to our 'civil society, even 'state'. Our modern distinction
is really a product of the American and French revolutions and 19th century 'empires'.
Edward Gibbon, in his 'History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
regularly, and quite correctly, referred to the Roman state as 'the Republic',
even though it was a Republic ruled by an Emperor.
My own nodding acquaintance with Ancient Roman history includes the periods of the Principate starting with Augustus, with emperors ruling with the forms of the Republic, and the Dominate, when Diocletian dispensed with them.
My mom made great spaghetti... Her parents were from Sicily and Rome...
Interesting - certainly by the 4th century a lot of the pre-imperial institutions, notably the Senate,
had become ornamental relics. But I happened to be reading Gibbon's chapters on your hero's rule,
and his Christian successors, and he's still using 'republic'.