The Accidental Witness

[Deleted member jedakk]

Good job! Sometimes you witness things that you really didn't want to see, that stay with you all of your life. Sometimes they contribute to make up who you are.

I was lucky enough not to ever be forced to watch an execution. I knew others who went, just to see, maybe to find out what they would feel watching someone's life pass out of their body, maybe thinking they'll feel more alive themselves for the experience. People have always done that whether it was under the guise of a public execution or a show in the Roman Colloseum.

One of the places I worked seemed to be a major site for executions, often having five beheadings at a time. I never went, but others did. One of my friends attended one and upon his return tried to describe what he'd seen. Apparently the shock of what he'd seen was too much, and he collapsed. It turned out that he had some pre-existing heart problems that were apparently aggravated by the stress. He died two days later.

I remember one of my Saudi friends describing one of those executions at that place. He said that when the executioner swung his sword, the man's head rolled and bounced a little distance like a soccer ball. He cringed at the memory when he told me that. The executioner had his young son there with him, perhaps eight years old; he told him "Go fetch that." The boy hurriedly walked over and picked up the head and brought it back to his father.

One of the two English language newspapers in Saudi Arabia is The Arab News. It's gotten a lot better over the past few years as there were less restrictions on what they could print. Some years ago, they began doing some investigative reporting, with some very interesting articles on things like the Jeddah public library - they had trouble finding it, gravediggers, and one amazing article on a public executioner. You can read that here:

http://www.arabnews.com/node/228410

 

[Wragg]

Good job! Sometimes you witness things that you really didn't want to see, that stay with you all of your life. Sometimes they contribute to make up who you are.

I was lucky enough not to ever be forced to watch an execution. I knew others who went, just to see, maybe to find out what they would feel watching someone's life pass out of their body, maybe thinking they'll feel more alive themselves for the experience. People have always done that whether it was under the guise of a public execution or a show in the Roman Colloseum.

One of the places I worked seemed to be a major site for executions, often having five beheadings at a time. I never went, but others did. One of my friends attended one and upon his return tried to describe what he'd seen. Apparently the shock of what he'd seen was too much, and he collapsed. It turned out that he had some pre-existing heart problems that were apparently aggravated by the stress. He died two days later.

I remember one of my Saudi friends describing one of those executions at that place. He said that when the executioner swung his sword, the man's head rolled and bounced a little distance like a soccer ball. He cringed at the memory when he told me that. The executioner had his young son there with him, perhaps eight years old; he told him "Go fetch that." The boy hurriedly walked over and picked up the head and brought it back to his father.

One of the two English language newspapers in Saudi Arabia is The Arab News. It's gotten a lot better over the past few years as there were less restrictions on what they could print. Some years ago, they began doing some investigative reporting, with some very interesting articles on things like the Jeddah public library - they had trouble finding it, gravediggers, and one amazing article on a public executioner. You can read that here:

http://www.arabnews.com/node/228410

Interesting comment about the women being tougher than the men....that poor woman, forgiven, unforgiven, then forgiven again,

I'd have been a babbling lunatic!

 

[Primus pilus]

Good job! Sometimes you witness things that you really didn't want to see, that stay with you all of your life. Sometimes they contribute to make up who you are.

I was lucky enough not to ever be forced to watch an execution. I knew others who went, just to see, maybe to find out what they would feel watching someone's life pass out of their body, maybe thinking they'll feel more alive themselves for the experience. People have always done that whether it was under the guise of a public execution or a show in the Roman Colloseum.

One of the places I worked seemed to be a major site for executions, often having five beheadings at a time. I never went, but others did. One of my friends attended one and upon his return tried to describe what he'd seen. Apparently the shock of what he'd seen was too much, and he collapsed. It turned out that he had some pre-existing heart problems that were apparently aggravated by the stress. He died two days later.

I remember one of my Saudi friends describing one of those executions at that place. He said that when the executioner swung his sword, the man's head rolled and bounced a little distance like a soccer ball. He cringed at the memory when he told me that. The executioner had his young son there with him, perhaps eight years old; he told him "Go fetch that." The boy hurriedly walked over and picked up the head and brought it back to his father.

One of the two English language newspapers in Saudi Arabia is The Arab News. It's gotten a lot better over the past few years as there were less restrictions on what they could print. Some years ago, they began doing some investigative reporting, with some very interesting articles on things like the Jeddah public library - they had trouble finding it, gravediggers, and one amazing article on a public executioner. You can read that here:

http://www.arabnews.com/node/228410

Interesting observations on those who go to watch and on the executioner Jedakk. The young man in this story certainly didn't feel more alive for the experience though Pp will try to describe this in a final part. That Arab News article adds another perspective.

Dira Square was always known as Chop Chop Square because of the number of executions carried out there though Pp never visited Riyadh. Nothing was ever reported in the Khaleej Times or the Times of Oman, the two English-language papers Pp would read and it is surprising that Saudi press is now more openly investigating and reporting.

 

[Deleted member jedakk]

Interesting observations on those who go to watch and on the executioner Jedakk. The young man in this story certainly didn't feel more alive for the experience though Pp will try to describe this in a final part. That Arab News article adds another perspective.

Dira Square was always known as Chop Chop Square because of the number of executions carried out there though Pp never visited Riyadh. Nothing was ever reported in the Khaleej Times or the Times of Oman, the two English-language papers Pp would read and it is surprising that Saudi press is now more openly investigating and reporting.

Things were different under King Abdullah, who recently died and was succeeded by Salman. Abdullah carried out a lot of reforms and was very popular with the people. I still have a lot of concerns about what Salman might do, whether he will continue to institute reforms that will bring the country into the 21st century or go the other way. But regarding the media there, it's much more free than it used to be, although you see them writing apologies and retractions from time to time because they've offended some prince with something they wrote.

 

[Wragg]

This is one of those threads that I keep on thinking about.

It is a story of something that is happening today. Following the conversation between Pp and Jedakk, they are both speaking with experience, experience which ( and I do thank God for this) I haven't had. But I could have had it. I well remember thinking about whether to work in Saudi Arabia, there was a call for people in my profession out there, and I was told that I could make a lot of money. So the 'young man' could have been me, but for a different life choice.

Thank you for posting it, Pp.

 

[Primus pilus]

This is one of those threads that I keep on thinking about.

It is a story of something that is happening today. Following the conversation between Pp and Jedakk, they are both speaking with experience, experience which ( and I do thank God for this) I haven't had. But I could have had it. I well remember thinking about whether to work inn Saudi Arabia, there was a call for people in my profession out there, and I was told that I could make a lot of money. So the 'young man' could have been me, but for a different life choice.

Thank you for posting it, Pp.

Thanks Wragg. It has been so pleasing to see this discussed and your thoughts and those of Jedakk are appreciated. Others should join in if they have anything to add.

It is happening today in Saudi and elsewhere. The difference, now, is that much more is documented than it was in 1982. It still happens in some of the world's great nations and, though less publicly, at least there is reporting and debate even if the impact on those who witness is little discussed.

Pp has one more post to come, a postscript of sorts, to bring this back to the present day.

 

[Primus pilus]

Part 4 - Epilogue

He did not sleep that afternoon and was in the foyer waiting when his driver came. He did not sleep that night either, back in his apartment in a city a few hours’ flight to the south-east, not even after a half bottle of single malt.

​

In a few days he is back in the desert in his nondescript short wheel-base Landcruiser, living rough for a few weeks at a time with just one other, his guide, for company.

​

Meeting local shawawi, the semi-nomadic goatherds in the north, and the Bedu with their camels and goats, the Wahiba of the eastern sands, the Jenaba to the west, spending time understanding them and their nomadic lives, talking through his guide over traditional coffee, beans roasted in an acacia and dung fire.

​

And, all the while, mapping, collecting information for his project with the Ministry and watching, always watching and taking notes.

​

It is peaceful out there in the desert, the people friendly but with stoicism forged by the harsh environment and so many hundreds of years of strictly enforced tenets. A mix of Islam and older ways, even justice through bisha’a, the ancient ordeal by fire, to detect lies.

Three months pass, August now, and it is so hot during the day. The nights are much cooler in the desert but, despite long and tiring days and the cool nights, he still struggles to sleep.

A couple of years and, his contract completed, he returns home but sleep, too often, remains fitful.

To this day he remembers that scene, the sounds and the smells, and a second, equally disturbing, in another Gulf state less than 6 months later.

His eyes are drawn to the shelf above his desk. A Nikon digital, state-of-the-art just 12 months ago sits beside the old 35 mm Canon film camera and some rolls of film, functional, but out-dated against any modern standard.

He looks at the image on the laptop screen. Some things move on as the world changes, others remain mired in fundamentalism that passes itself as tradition, immutable.

He still has that diary, the ink a little faded, but still clear. To this day he has never spoken about that scene nor the second he witnessed and, sometimes, when insomnia strikes, he still sees that black shape lying in the dusty square and remembers how it felt to be a part of that crowd.

As captive as the woman in the dust. Unable to intervene, unable to leave, unable to even turn away. Compelled to watch, to witness.

Still disturbing.

Primus pilus
August 2015​

 

[Deleted member jedakk]

The years do get away from us - so many experiences, some, like this, indelibly burned into our minds. Good wrap-up, connecting things with present day.

 

[Jollyrei]

I spent several years in Somalia when I was younger, before the country disintegrated. I remember hearing about stonings (no beheadings). Mostly the government at the time just shot people if they were accused. The system was "guilty until proven innocent" so there were a number of people who disappeared after perfunctory trials.

At the time, I recall we would hear about floggings and beheadings in Saudi Arabia, but Somalia (styling itself a "socialist" secular republic at the time) had mostly stopped officially or publicly killing people for religious reasons. I don't think I would feel so smug now. Anyway, all that to say that the story felt a bit "real" to me. Very worth reading and very well written, Pp, but too "close to home" to work as fantasy for me. Cheers.

 

[Primus pilus]

I spent several years in Somalia when I was younger, before the country disintegrated. I remember hearing about stonings (no beheadings). Mostly the government at the time just shot people if they were accused. The system was "guilty until proven innocent" so there were a number of people who disappeared after perfunctory trials.

One of Pp's colleagues from that time was killed in Somalia while working on a UN project not 2 years after the events described here.

Anyway, all that to say that the story felt a bit "real" to me. Very worth reading and very well written, Pp, but too "close to home" to work as fantasy for me. Cheers.

Thanks Jollyrei. Appreciate the comments and discussion.

And therein lies the rub as they say. So much written here is just that: pure fantasy so divorced from any reality.

Some writers try hard to explore the emotions felt by the characters (as Pp and Barb have done and we will never forget Barbara Moore vomiting on the Cardinal's red slippers) though, even those, don't quite approach reality.

But whether the stories are fantasy or deeper, they are almost always only ever about the "perpetrator" and the "victim", for want of a better word terms.

Only rarely are the bystanders and witnesses included though Jedakk's Masterpiece does portray the onlookers in so much detail that their emotions are studied.

Here Pp has tried to explore the reality but to do that through the eyes of an unwilling witness.

 

[thehangingtree]

It is amazing that some of the most watched videos on the web are of people being beheaded or, recently in the US, a man shot and killed a female TV reporter and her cameraman, recording it on a Go Pro camera and posted it on the web.

I have watched none of these as I live for the fantasy but if they saw our site those same folks who do watch the videos would think we are the sick ones...

 

[Wragg]

Wisely or unwisely, I did look at the video that was posted on this thread before it was very properly removed. Wisely, because it did I think add to the descriptions that Pp has posted; unwisely, because watching the death of another human being, even on a video, feels as though it is taking part of your own humanity.

So, why do we fantasise about the torture and death of human beings? I don't know.... I'm not a psychologist, but for me and I suspect many others I think it was no more or less than being exposed in my formative years to images of torture and death which were OK because three days later the 'victim' popped up out of the grave and I was taught to say thank you to him every night on my knees.... And when my young brain switched a nearly naked man for a naked woman I was done for. I'm not saying that Christianity is a fantasy, am I? Perish the thought. I still indulge in it....

But confronting the reality of a beheaded woman who is not going to rise again in three days is hard. Because we are all human.

Time for some thank yous. Thank you to Pp for being prepared to share this with us. And thank you to you lot out there for showing me that you can have these fantasies and still be decent, humane, law-abiding people who wouldn't hurt a fly.

Lunatic, knee jerk reaction censors - please take note.

 

[Eulalia]

Yes, a very thought-provoking account and discussion.
I think - and I'm not asking anyone to reveal anything unless they really feel it would help -
quite a lot of us who've found our way here have had traumatic experiences of one kind or another,
shocking encounters with death, suffering or sex -
such things arouse demons that don't go away,
I've found CF - entirely unexpectedly - a place where I can deal with them
in a supportive environment of people who aren't just decent and humane,
but very special.​

 

[thehangingtree]

Yes, a very thought-provoking account and discussion.
I think - and I'm not asking anyone to reveal anything unless they really feel it would help -
quite a lot of us who've found our way here have had traumatic experiences of one kind or another,
shocking encounters with death, suffering or sex -
such things arouse demons that don't go away,
I've found CF - entirely unexpectedly - a place where I can deal with them
in a supportive environment of people who aren't just decent and humane,
but very special.​

I don't even hunt except the meat department at the local grocery store because I don't like even touching dead animals to dispose of the carcass. I cannot say I was ever traumatized but all I write is purely fantasy with no desire to ever see any for real!

Tree

 

[kneel_down_ella]

incredible thread Pp well done!

 

[malins]

, but too "close to home" to work as fantasy for me.

So much written here is just that: pure fantasy so divorced from any reality. Here Pp has tried to explore the reality but to do that through the eyes of an unwilling witness.

I didn't read this as fantasy, in the sense of: would I be excited by, or attracted to, the imagination of filling in a role in the story. Any role; not the victim, the witness, or other. I didn't feel any intent in the story either, to pressure readers to identify with a role - as some fantasy stories try. So it's certainly not an attractive story, maybe a little corrective, in the way Pp has said - to remind us a bit of the reality, and the huge effect it can have, even on the bystander.

 

[phlebas]

Great story, PP, reminding us that brutality exists in our own time, can cross the path of any of us unexpectedly. Nicely told, the sense of unintended involvement, of a lingering memory and profound impact.

I have never been to the Middle East, though I almost accepted a job in Kuwait in 1989. I dodged a bullet there, watching Saddam's invasion on TV the following year from the comfort of London.

I've always been interested in the witness, the watcher, in our stories and fantasies. Maybe that's how I see myself? These events, whether fantasy or real experience, are the kind that must have a profound effect on those who see them. The watcher may like to think they are detached, but the best stories draw them in, provoke a response, a glimpse of our inner workings. Life and death and humanity are not small things!

 

[pontiopilato]

Primus,

Disturbing stuff, this(I mean that in a positive way). I wonder in this case if a guillotine might have been a better idea. I don't know if the sword that was used here could ever have been made sharp enough for a clean cut on the first try.