The Secret Fifth Wound

[Fox-on-Cross]

Two nails in the hands,
two in the feet
makes four wounds.
The 5e is on the shoulders and between.

By the crucifixion always the shoulders are pressed against the wood. Is it not to expect that the Romans used polished wood. By the dancing on the cross the shoulders scrub over the row surface, by every respiration and that for many hours. In this matter a large wound arises.

We never saw such wound! He is secret for reason that the victim ever is exposed at his naked front side: at the cross, by the cross decrease, over the legs by his mother and laying exposed as in a Spanish statue. Also never we watched for a view behind the cross except by pictures in this forum and a Salvador Dali.
The shroud of Turin reveals several blood particles.

The 5e wound
is the greatest of all
and at the same time
the most privy.

 

[Eulalia]

Yes, especially if my back (buttocks too) have been 'softened up' by scourging,
rubbing against the rough wood would soon be agonising, I'd be skinning myself alive
I'd be forced not only to keep hauling myself up and sink down,
but to keep trying to swing my body away from the upright,
only to fall back against it.
Also, if the nails in my wrists and feet are the only restraints,
the wounds would be constantly churned, adding to the pain of every movement.

 

[Thessela]

Oh! But what about the cornu?
The fifth wound?

 

[phlebas]

Interesting theory Fox. The bloody back and shoulders as the "fifth wound".
Traditionally, and reasonably enough, the wounds of Christ are seen as piercings, and the 5th wound is the spear thrust in the side.
The spear adds an interesting element to crucifixion. I find it adds something quite powerful, as a sign of utter powerlessness. To be nailed stretched out and exposed, to die slowly on a cross, is one thing. To die by spear thrust, hanging there helpless and knowing the killing blow is coming, knowing your body will be pierced painfully and fatally, that is quite something else.
In traditional Japanese crucifixion of course it is a double spear thrust that brings death, the cross is an instrument of display and humiliation, a frame to render the victim vulnerable to the spears.



The cornu as 5th wound? I have seen this suggested before with regard to The Crucifixion. It is an interesting idea, but I think the spear is more likely at least for that most famous of crucifixions! Crux being an infinitely variable and flexible thing, I can see the back and shoulders as a useful addition to the litany of torments!

 

[Loxuru]

Interesting topic. Some thoughts about it.

Was the spear in the gospels not used to check whether Christ was really dead, in stead of for killing Him (correct me if I am wrong).
Cornu as a fifth wound? I rather see it as a "fifth nail". It penetrates an already existing body cavity (and indeed, could likely rip it open to some extent and create an extra wound).
On the other hand, a cornu wouldn't it prevent a condemned from dancing and writhing against the cross and hence from creating wounds at the backside of the body?

 

[geolier]

Two nails in the hands,
two in the feet
makes four wounds.
The 5e is on the shoulders and between.

By the crucifixion always the shoulders are pressed against the wood. Is it not to expect that the Romans used polished wood. By the dancing on the cross the shoulders scrub over the row surface, by every respiration and that for many hours. In this matter a large wound arises.

We never saw such wound! He is secret for reason that the victim ever is exposed at his naked front side: at the cross, by the cross decrease, over the legs by his mother and laying exposed as in a Spanish statue. Also never we watched for a view behind the cross except by pictures in this forum and a Salvador Dali.
The shroud of Turin reveals several blood particles.

The 5e wound
is the greatest of all
and at the same time
the most privy.

hmmm, I always thought the fith wound ( at jesus at least ) came from the spear used by the soldier, to check whether he was really dead.....

 

[Eulalia]

Yes, the 'fifth wound' of Christ in Christian art and tradition is the posthumous spear-thrust mentioned (only) in John 19:

31 Therefore, because it was the Preparation Day, that the bodies should not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), the Jews asked Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away. 32 Then the soldiers came and broke the legs of the first and of the other who was crucified with Him. 33 But when they came to Jesus and saw that He was already dead, they did not break His legs. 34 But one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear, and immediately blood and water came out. 35 And he who has seen has testified, and his testimony is true; and he knows that he is telling the truth, so that you may believe. 36 For these things were done that the Scripture should be fulfilled, “Not one of His bones shall be broken.”[f] 37 And again another Scripture says, “They shall look on Him whom they pierced.”[g]

f Exodus 12:46 (the Passover lamb); Numbers 9:12 (ditto); Psalm 34:20 (the Lord rescues the righteous: 'He keeps all their bones; not one of them shall be broken')
g Zechariah 12:10 ('when they look on the one whom they have pierced, they shall mourn for him')

So it's presented as implicit evidence that Jesus actually was dead (probably a matter of controversy by the time of John's Gospel),
but also as fulfilling prophecies and presenting Christ as the Passover Lamb.

 

[Fox-on-Cross]

I regard this mentioned "cornu" as nonsense. Or perhaps an invention by queer men.
Sex has nothing to do with the cross.

My topic was written for the general crucifixion: hanging till suffocation. No spear necessary of course..

 

[admihoek]

Oh! But what about the cornu?
The fifth wound?

the cornu is a nice rest seat in between

 

[Naraku]

I regard this mentioned "cornu" as nonsense. Or perhaps an invention by queer men.
Sex has nothing to do with the cross.

My topic was written for the general crucifixion: hanging till suffocation. No spear necessary of course..

There are several contemporary sources that mention the cornu. It is not the product of sexual fantasy.

There is no doubt that the back of one being crucified would become badly scraped & even torn by the rough wood which would compound the damage already done by the scourging.

hmmm, I always thought the fith wound ( at jesus at least ) came from the spear used by the soldier, to check whether he was really dead.....

I've always had problem with this idea of stabbing someone through to chest to see if he's really dead. It would make more sense to poke him in a non-vital area to get a reaction. This would be common practice after a battle, to insure none of the enemy "dead' weren't only playing possum.
The writer of "John" may have meant that the Roman's stabbed Jesus in the heart to insure that he was dead. The intent of the passage may have been to counter opponents of the Christians who claimed that Jesus wasn't really dead when taken from the cross & that his resurrection was a ruse.

 

[Fox-on-Cross]

The back-/shoulderswound is more painful then those in hand and feet. These are relatively quit so strongly fixed at the wood; the back possesses an eternal movement from up to down. Also is the change that infection of the blood could progress victims dead.

I do not believe that crucifixions endure several days, because the Romans have more work to do than camping around. Mostly one person was crucified. After a day the Romans departed and let the victim alone. To release him (or euthanize as in a movie) was a capital crime so that many corpus hung for months.

 

[Hypatia2020]

It could be right, but it will depend in what position someone is nailed to the cross, and how much freedom of movement is allowed. With the upper arms tied to the patibulum, as some representations do show, there will be little freedom to move. Movement will also be restricted with a sedile or cornu.

Another painful 'fifth wound' could be sunburn.

 

[Loxuru]

I regard this mentioned "cornu" as nonsense. Or perhaps an invention by queer men.
Sex has nothing to do with the cross.

I think this remark about the cornu and queer men is a little bit 'cutting corners'.

To my opinion, a cornu is not an instrument of sexual arousal for the condemned, but a painful and humiliating addition to crucifixion.
Painful, because the cornu takes all the body weight, which is then concentrated on one point of the body; The cornu could rip apart muscles around the anus, and cause internal wounds. But the alternative is even more terrible and exhausting (crux dance).
Humiliating because of the sexual perception by the onlookers (the cross is 'taking' or 'raping' the condemned).

 

[Fox-on-Cross]

During lesson art history I remember the sentence of a fifth end of the cross to extend the time of suffering; that suggests not more than a little shelf to sin on.

 

[Skwipuk]

I agree that in a real crucifixion, there would be rubbing from the movement up-and-down. On a rough-surface pole (stipes)) this could scrape and cut the skin on the shoulders, or on their back, between the shoulder blades.

Wouldn't that movement and scraping also happen on the buttocks? Most examples with the feet fastened flat to the pole, also show the buttocks pressed against the pole. Even a movement of the hips out from the pole, and then up, would likely become a slide up-and-down on the surface, along the butt-crack.

(I'm not saying this would be pretty or erotic. Just that a wound there might be the result after many hours hanging on the cross.)

 

[Eulalia]

that suggests not more than a little shelf to sin on.

a lovely idea - though I think you might have meant 'sit on'

 

[Fox-on-Cross]

a lovely idea - though I think you might have meant 'sit on'

Indeed, dear Eulalia.

 

[admihoek]

a lovely idea - though I think you might have meant 'sit on'

but to sit on looks like a sin

 

[Fox-on-Cross]

How many did crucifixion abusively wrote as crucifiction?

 

[woodflesh]

The back and the shoulders shall be whipped by a bullwhip, afterwards the patibulum is laid on these wounds and the delinquent must carry it on the crossroad.