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mp5stab said:
But the Christian God is three persons in one? So You would be so much more appropriate?
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Quiet! He is thinking!

"If there is one God who is our father and the Son is the son of the Father,
than the Son is my brother and my father is my grandfather and my brother is my father.
So if my father is my grandfather than I am the son of the grandfather and I am my own uncle.
If my uncle is the brother of my father he is part of a Holy Plurality.
If I am my uncle I am also part of this Holy Plurality.
Should I address myself as "thee"?
:doh: Holy Spirit, clear my mind."
 
jedakk said:
One of my favorite examples of the distinction between "tu" and "vous" is the scene in the original French-language book of "Les Miserables" where, shortly after Jean Valjean was released from prison, an innkeeper was addressing him respectfully using "vous." Then he found out that Valjean was a convict, and immediately switched to "tu," indicating contempt.

I wondered how you could hope to capture that in an English translation.
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Instead of saying 'you' one would use 'fuckin' con'... That's how it is handled in the hot bed if high society in NW Arkansas...
 
I'm laughing in reading some of your comments ...:p
In fact, for me (and for all French people) it's not a problem : soon as we're young and learning our language, we are accustomed to make the difference between "tu"/ "vous" and it does not appear like difficult ... :D

...and yes, jedakk, your example is well chosen to show the difference when you respect somebody or not ...;)
 
Wragg134 said:
Maybe it is only used when addressing individual members of the Godhead, Our Father... Thy will be done.

Better steer clear of Trinitarian Theology on Cruxforums... :rolleyes:

I hope Old Slave or Dorothy might come on and point out that "thou" was still in use quite recently in Yorkshire...

"Tha', son, has been on Ilkley Moor...."
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Speaking of Dorothy here she checks out the Holy Trinity in Detroit...
d b 014.jpg
Tree

They really are predicting strong thunderstorms at the Tree estate tonight. After this post I would stay away from him -Ulrika
 
messaline said:
I'm laughing in reading some of your comments ...:p
In fact, for me (and for all French people) it's not a problem : soon as we're young and learning our language, we are accustomed to make the difference between "tu"/ "vous" and it does not appear like difficult ... :D

...and yes, jedakk, your example is well chosen to show the difference when you respect somebody or not ...;)
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Aside from vous/tu, the other challenge I find in French is to quickly identify when I should answer "oui" or "si." "Oui" of course corresponds to "yes" in English, but while "si" also means "yes," it is used as a double-affirmative, a response to a question where a simple yes would not be a clear answer.

For example, if you're married, and someone says "You're not married?" Simply answering "yes" would confirm that you are indeed not married. But answering that question with "si" in French, the double-affirmative, is equivalent to saying "Yes, I am married," but without so many words.

So "si" is kind of a response to a trick question, but I think one would need to be on their toes to recognize the trick and avoid being tripped up.
 
jedakk said:
Aside from vous/tu, the other challenge I find in French is to quickly identify when I should answer "oui" or "si." "Oui" of course corresponds to "yes" in English, but while "si" also means "yes," it is used as a double-affirmative, a response to a question where a simple yes would not be a clear answer.

For example, if you're married, and someone says "You're not married?" Simply answering "yes" would confirm that you are indeed not married. But answering that question with "si" in French, the double-affirmative, is equivalent to saying "Yes, I am married," but without so many words.

So "si" is kind of a response to a trick question, but I think one would need to be on their toes to recognize the trick and avoid being tripped up.
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In English the question is 'Do you still beat your wife?' If you answer "No!!!" you imply you did. Of course in NW Arkansas the answer is usually "Hell, yes, why should I quit?"
 
thehangingtree said:
In English the question is 'Do you still beat your wife?' If you answer "No!!!" you imply you did. Of course in NW Arkansas the answer is usually "Hell, yes, why should I quit?"
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Good, I was afraid I hadn't made the concept clear! :doh:

And everybody knows that NW Arkansas is where they invented the toothbrush. Anywhere else and it would have been a "teethbrush"! :devil:
 
jedakk said:
For example, if you're married, and someone says "You're not married?"
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Like you are writting, "si" is more correponding to a "negative" question , in fact ...
The English "yes" is generally sufficient ; it can be added by "of course" or "indeed" ...

In French, we also have : "évidemment", "bien sûr", "certainement" .....and perhaps other that I dont remember for the moment ...
Yes, of course ! Certainement que ... we've a rich language and I love it !:p
 
messaline said:
Like you are writting, "si" is more correponding to a "negative" question , in fact ...
The English "yes" is generally sufficient ; it can be added by "of course" or "indeed" ...

In French, we also have : "évidemment", "bien sûr", "certainement" .....and perhaps other that I dont remember for the moment ...
Yes, of course ! Certainement que ... we've a rich language and I love it !:p
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Well, you can add words like "of course" or "indeed" as you suggest, but those only emphasize the "yes" without reversing the negation in the question. So if I answer the question "You're not married?" with "yes, of course!" then what I'm communicating is really "yes, of course I'm not married!" To answer the question in the affirmative, we have to spell it out: "Yes, of course I'm married!" This is just a shade of meaning that we don't have in English, but you do in French.

It's interesting, I've read about 30 French-language novels, most of them classics, by Dumas, Hugo, de Maupassant, Voltaire, Moliere, Camus, Jules Verne, Marcelle Pagnol, etc., along with my collection of Asterix et Obelix. I think you learn a lot about the way people in a different culture think and organize their thoughts when you learn their language.
 
jedakk said:
Well, you can add words like "of course" or "indeed" as you suggest, but those only emphasize the "yes" without reversing the negation in the question. So if I answer the question "You're not married?" with "yes, of course!" then what I'm communicating is really "yes, of course I'm not married!" To answer the question in the affirmative, we have to spell it out: "Yes, of course I'm married!" This is just a shade of meaning that we don't have in English, but you do in French.
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Exactely !;)

jedakk said:
I think you learn a lot about the way people in a different culture think and organize their thoughts when you learn their language.
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I totaly agree ... Step by step, I'm learning more and more the English and American ways of life : and it's fascinating because, in fact, we're not at all informed by the medias what it could really be !... only some old stereotypes:(
 
messaline said:
Exactely !;)



I totaly agree ... Step by step, I'm learning more and more the English and American ways of life : and it's fascinating because, in fact, we're not at all informed by the medias what it could really be !... only some old stereotypes:(
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Stereotypes, dear girl?

Cleese.jpg

:rolleyes:
 
jedakk said:
Aside from vous/tu, the other challenge I find in French is to quickly identify when I should answer "oui" or "si." "Oui" of course corresponds to "yes" in English, but while "si" also means "yes," it is used as a double-affirmative, a response to a question where a simple yes would not be a clear answer.

For example, if you're married, and someone says "You're not married?" Simply answering "yes" would confirm that you are indeed not married. But answering that question with "si" in French, the double-affirmative, is equivalent to saying "Yes, I am married," but without so many words.

So "si" is kind of a response to a trick question, but I think one would need to be on their toes to recognize the trick and avoid being tripped up.
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Interesting thread!
And a good question!

I'm a francophone(Canada) but i had to look it up as my school years way back in the past....
http://www.francaisfacile.com/forum/lire.php?num=7&msg=54493&titre=Oui+ou+si
As Messaline said you use "si" to answer a negative question for example:You don't like fish,don't you?

Tu n'aime pas le poisson?
Si j'aime le poisson.
 
messaline said:
I'm laughing in reading some of your comments ...:p
In fact, for me (and for all French people) it's not a problem : soon as we're young and learning our language, we are accustomed to make the difference between "tu"/ "vous" and it does not appear like difficult ... :D

...and yes, jedakk, your example is well chosen to show the difference when you respect somebody or not ...;)
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Sadly in the french speaking part of Canada the young people (30 and less) don't use the "vous"anymore only the "tu"
When you hear a publicity on the radio you can tell right away the target audience with use of the "tu" or the "vous".
 
messaline said:
Yes, for me, all English people were looking like him ...:p
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Well, maybe not all English always knew what a Frenchman looked like either! 200+ years ago during the Napoleonic Wars, so the story goes, a French ship was wrecked just off the coast of Hartlepool, England, with the only survivor found washed up on shore being the ship's pet monkey dressed in a little French uniform. Thinking this must be a Frenchman, the locals questioned it, and getting no responses, they hanged him as a spy.

A friend I worked with in the Middle East claimed that you could still start a bar fight there by saying "Who hung the bloody monkey then?" Apparently that has mostly died down now. Here's the story: http://www.thisishartlepool.co.uk/history/thehartlepoolmonkey.asp
 
jedakk said:
A friend I worked with in the Middle East claimed that you could still start a bar fight there by saying "Who hung the bloody monkey then?" Apparently that has mostly died down now. Here's the story: http://www.thisishartlepool.co.uk/history/thehartlepoolmonkey.asp
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Hysteria over animal spies continues to this day

Pakistani Spy Pigeon?

Israeli Eagle Eyes?

People will be suspicious of rodents next

Trustmebaby.jpg




http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/32928909/pakistani-spy-pigeon-arrested-in-india
 
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