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Whipping For Pleasure

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I think that's a very good analysis, Kasey. I can only say, being a masochist isn't boring!
I think there's a tendency to assume mascohist/sub/slavegirls like me are simply wimpish,
passive, playing no active part in our ordeals - far from it, for a start we have to be tough,
it's no game for softies, and what gets the juices pumping is psyching ourselves up for what's coming,
and responding to it, 'dancing' to it, struggling to cope with it,
discovering what depth of resources we've got to face up to fear and endure intense agony -
maybe the sight of us putting up a good fight excites and pleases the sadist,
maybe it provokes him/her to even greater cruelty, I can understand either reaction (or a mixture of both),
but I can't imagine many sadists wanting or getting much pleasure from a merely passive victim.
 
Thanks Eulalia.
I've often dreamt of being used for other's pleasure. The thought of enduring pain through stress holds or torture and being kept in such a state where I'm on the verge of breaking, but at the same time my abuser ripping orgasms from me using any method that produces the desired outcome. That could never be boring. It takes bravery and strength and I have huge respect, and envy for anyone who endures.
As a sadist, non practicing (except in the literary field), I find equal arousal in girls who enjoy the abuse, and those that do not and desperately try to resist. Like I mentioned in my post earlier about de Sade's Libertines perhaps wanting to torture even harder those seeming to enjoy the pain. That would be my ambition if I was Libertine.
The sadistic tendencies of his Libertines are what I find intensly erotic. Nothing was too extreme for de Sade.
Even though the inspirational scene which spawned my version was relatively tame by his standards, the demeanor of the girl: timid, with unquestioning obedience, was a strong ingredient that contributed to its eroticism. The other thing was that the two women had such a thirst for brutality that they thought nothing of roping the girl to the post and having her whipped, just to watch her bleed. The sheer lack of empathy between the two was both eye opening and arousing for me. Confilcting emotions of social unacceptability and uncontrolled lust for the destruction of innocence in that story left me....well you can probably imagine.

I believe that a masochistic slave should equally test her master's limits as well as her own. As the bar is raised, so would the trust between them.
I read this today - "Pain is mine to give, and yours to recieve."
 
What I read here let me completely voiceless ...

Nothing was too extreme for de Sade.

So, you can imply that his pleasure could go to the death of his victim ?

As a sadist, non practicing (except in the literary field), I find equal arousal in girls who enjoy the abuse, and those that do not and desperately try to resist. Like I mentioned in my post earlier about de Sade's Libertines perhaps wanting to torture even harder those seeming to enjoy the pain. That would be my ambition if I was Libertine.

... and if the "Libertine" doesn't be able to see what are her limits ?
Could you nail your victim to a cross with the pretext that , in her deep fantasy, she was wishing that ?
No, I think that Sade was a huge madman and that, what he wrote, was coming from a disturbed brain , like , if you know him, Gilles de Ray who, alas , was not arrested before that he killed many victims !
I can speak of that, because, unlike you, I practice bdsm but only in a love'relation, only if I can show to my Dom that I'm able to accept the pain that she gives to me by love towards her ... and under condition that she could stop the pain when I've reach my limits !
So, stay into your " literary field " and dont let suppose that these fantasies could be Reality !


Notice : the "literary" victims of Sade had not chosen their fates and were not aquiescent : "Mr. de Sade" was imagining that from the moment that you were a woman, you were automatically a "wonderful" victim , devoted to his worst sadistic instincts ! Fortunately, it was only in writings and that he was arrested before to go to the accomplishment !!!
Alas, it wasn't the same for Gille de Ray !


So are my thoughts about this topic ...
Messaline
 
Messaline, it seems to me that you have not really taken the opportunity to study the Marquis de Sade, and if you have, you may have missed the point.
The Marquis de Sade was highly intelligent and took issue with the establishment; using any opportunity to mock society and religion. He wanted to rebel against the standards of social exceptance.
A lot of his written work is evidence of this. The violence contained in his novels was only part of his way of sticking two fingers up at the morality police. The rest of the content was brilliant philosophical discussions between the characters which offered the reader a different view of the current social norm.
To say that de Sade was a madman and wrote from a disturbed brain would be a statement from someone with little knowledge of his life.

When I stated that nothing was too extreme for de Sade, your response was "So, you can imply that his pleasure could go to the death of his victim?" Anyone who has read de Sade should not have to ask this question.
Please look up the definition of Libertine. It will answer your questions on this matter.

It's rather presumptuous to conclude that a writer of extreme fiction would engage in his or her fantasies in a real life setting. The Marquis de Sade had plenty of time for murderous pursuit, but the worst thing he did was engage in a bondage session with a prostitue, for which he got into trouble for.
You must understand that the vast majority of authors of extreme fiction know right from wrong, and can in fact separate fantasy from reality. To assume that de Sade would have become a serial killer given half the chance is ludicrous.

I'd also like to address the statement you made that implied that I would lack self control if I would ever chose to engage in a sadist/masochist relationship. You told me to stay within in my field of literature to prevent my fantasies from becoming reality.
It's difficult not to take offence by this statement.
It's evident that you have taken passages from my previous posts out of context.
I live an average life, and have no interest in pursuing activities of S&M or BDSM. I write what I write because I enjoy it and I want to open minds, generate discussion, and shock people. I idolise de Sade as a writer, philosopher and sadist.
This is a forum that celibrates the fantasies of torture, abuse and execution; to be lectured through self rightous virtue signalling here of all places is a little rich, don't you think?

To conclude my defence:
Comparing The Marquis de Sade to Gilles de Rais is to compare a philosophical writer with sadistic fantasies to a child murdering serial killer.
Uhh, what!?
Also, to suggest that law and opportunity are the only things that prevent those with extreme fantasies from carrying them out is as idiotic as it sounds.
I enjoy being a member of this forum and respect others tastes regardless of whether I share those tastes or not. Everyone on this forum adheres to the community rules and regulations, including myself and expect respectful engagement. Personal attacks are not respectful.
I should take offence to being labeled a suppressed sexual deviant incapable of self control, based on what I read and write, but my skin is a little thicker than that.

It would be great if we could return to the previously scheduled discussion, which was engaging and interesting up to this point.
aaaand....Go..
 
I am a bit confused by your statement, Messaline. Most of the stories here are non-consensual; are all the writers of them potential serial killers? What about murder mysteries, "romans policiers"; are those writers killers also? But the victims in those stories didn't consent to be killed-not usually anyway;). I never read anything bad about Agatha Christie or Georges Simenon or Sue Grafton or Henning Mankell or Stephen King in real life.
 
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A sort of tragic is that De Sade wrote extremely good French and therefore never was forgotten.
His brutality is to write about Napoleons Wife.

Many fortunate men with high education and social position also have (had) their secret pleasures, also pedophilia, but never write about them.
 
If you're all so much opened , you could accept that I could have my own opinion and if discussion is, in reality , to take the common opinion like "cash down", I think that CF is fallen down !!!
OK, you like (love) blood, murders and so on ...
I also can have these fantasies ... but this is not justifying the Sade'thoughts ...
By the past, we could have this kind of discussion with many different opinions and without that we could condemn someone who has not the common one ...
I opened a thread on this topic "bdsm / sm / sadism ..... I'll try to search it ...
 
So, stay into your " literary field " and dont let suppose that these fantasies could be Reality !
Why, Kasey, do you think that I wrote that ?
It's always the same problem, here : there is often a confusion between Fantasy and Reality !
I wanted to notice that Sade and Gilles de Ray were not fiction'people : they really have existed and their writings (for the first) and acts (for the second) could become a real problem !
We know well that the victims of Agatha Christie and others are only fictional characters , but , concerning Sade, I'm practically sure that if he was not jailed, he could do what he wrote !
Sorry if you took my sentence like a personal attact, but, in my mind, it was not : only to do well the difference Fantasy / Reality ...


... and of course that I accept the rules of CF concerning the fantasies that I can live here ... I even often make my own death in scene among all my stories or manips ...
 
If you're all so much opened , you could accept that I could have my own opinion and if discussion is, in reality , to take the common opinion like "cash down", I think that CF is fallen down !!!
Everyone excepts that you have your own opinion. But without submitting any evidence to support your opinion, it is just that - your opinion.
I think what you're getting upset over is that no one so far has agreed with you.
We keep seeing this type of behavior in society in recent times - "You must agree with me or I'll be offended!", "How dare you not agree with my opinion!"

Let me ask you a question. If one author writes about a spanking fantasy, and another author writes about a fantasy of burning someone with red hot irons, which author do you think is more likely to make his fantasy a reality?
Do you see where I'm going with this? :naughty2:

I wanted to notice that Sade and Gilles de Ray were not fiction'people : they really have existed and their writings (for the first) and acts (for the second) could become a real problem !

I think everyone here is well aware that the Marquis de Sade and Gilles de Rais were real people, and one was a writer; the other was a serial killer.:sisi3:

I think this following quote of yours is what is getting up people's asses
It's always the same problem, here : there is often a confusion between Fantasy and Reality !
This is the second time in this thread you've accused members of this. Statements like this are going to make you unpopular here. That would be a shame.
You've read my stories, and you've made it perfectly clear that you believe I cannot tell the difference between fantasy and reality. Now you make the claim that it's a reacurring problem with members of this forum.
Please submit some evidence. :deal:
I think people here would be more excepting of your opinions if they weren't accusations. Everyone involved in this discussion wants to know what you mean and why you think the way you think, but you seem to be getting angry for being questioned on your theory; your only response is to reiterate your original statements. We are interested to know how you came to your conclusions??

By the past, we could have this kind of discussion with many different opinions and without that we could condemn someone who has not the common one ...
Do you mean that everyone here is condemning you for being different...like you've condemned de Sade for being different?
The ingredients of quality discussion usually consists of opposing views. Please don't get upset for being challenged on them.x
 
Everyone excepts that you have your own opinion. But without submitting any evidence to support your opinion, it is just that - your opinion.
I think what you're getting upset over is that no one so far has agreed with you.
We keep seeing this type of behavior in society in recent times - "You must agree with me or I'll be offended!", "How dare you not agree with my opinion!"

Let me ask you a question. If one author writes about a spanking fantasy, and another author writes about a fantasy of burning someone with red hot irons, which author do you think is more likely to make his fantasy a reality?
Do you see where I'm going with this? :naughty2:



I think everyone here is well aware that the Marquis de Sade and Gilles de Rais were real people, and one was a writer; the other was a serial killer.:sisi3:

I think this following quote of yours is what is getting up people's asses

This is the second time in this thread you've accused members of this. Statements like this are going to make you unpopular here. That would be a shame.
You've read my stories, and you've made it perfectly clear that you believe I cannot tell the difference between fantasy and reality. Now you make the claim that it's a reacurring problem with members of this forum.
Please submit some evidence. :deal:
I think people here would be more excepting of your opinions if they weren't accusations. Everyone involved in this discussion wants to know what you mean and why you think the way you think, but you seem to be getting angry for being questioned on your theory; your only response is to reiterate your original statements. We are interested to know how you came to your conclusions??


Do you mean that everyone here is condemning you for being different...like you've condemned de Sade for being different?
The ingredients of quality discussion usually consists of opposing views. Please don't get upset for being challenged on them.x
Let's stay calm, folks...
 
I’m not intending to engage in further conversation on this topic with messaline. I’ve said my piece and to continue could raise temperatures higher.
The discussion is at a stalemate. I would like to know the moderators stance on derogatory statements in regards to accusations of the instability of mental health, as outlined in some of the posts above.
 
. I would like to know the moderators stance on derogatory statements in regards to accusations of the instability of mental health, as outlined in some of the posts above.
What ??? Do you imply that I had alleged that you could have a " instability of mental health" in my posts ?!
I've said that, for me (and for many French people at least !) Sade was considered like a mad man , but , NEVER !, I was speaking of you and , like you, I let this impossible discussion ...
The moderators could banish me ...
Though that I'm well known at CF for beeing a cool girl who never has made any trouble towards somebody ...
:(:(:(
 
Suggesting that I am unable to separate fantasy from reality is to question my mental health, yes.
But, I feel like we should draw a line under this subject and agree to disagree. I don't want any hard feelings with anyone on this forum.
Nobody wants you banned.
We should hug this out and move on.
:beer:
 
Suggesting that I am unable to separate fantasy from reality is to question my mental health, yes.
In my thoughts, it was not and I apologize if you could think so ... But remember that English is not my maternal language and that , sometimes, I've some difficulties to well express my thoughts ... :confused:

We should hug this out and move on.
:beer:
... and of course that I accept that ... ;)
 
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