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Worried about ethics? Don't derail the thread, post here instead!

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Wragg

Chronicler of Crux
Staff member
OK, so Cruxforums operates in a kind of ethical grey zone.

We fantasise about observing, causing or experiencing severe harm. Some of the extremes of that are blocked by the rules, such as images of actual harm, or discussions of how to commit criminal acts and get away with it. Here we are clear that these situations exist only in our art or our prose, in our imaginations only.

Our art and stories throw human rights and human dignity to the four winds of fantasy, but we would be as appalled as the next person if we came across any such situation in real life. We deplore any person or persons who think it is OK to go ahead and act out their fantasies in real life against any other human being either without their consent or in such a way as to cause them actual bodily harm.

I restate this, which has been declared over and again within the threads of this forum to make it absolutely clear to outside observers peering in to the forum that we are not a bunch of depraved thugs but normal, decent human beings who have found a harmless way to discuss and share our fantasies. The only 'victims' on this site are computer generated images or flights of our imaginations.

But the main purpose of this thread is to provide a place where we can chat about the ethics and morals of what we do without derailing threads or causing costernation to the thread-starter or those that post on a thread with good intentions of contributing to that thread. Therefore, if a thread is sidetracked by such an off-topic debate we mods can shift the posts over here, and leave the thread itself clear for those who are enjoying it.

Feedback about the posts and constructive criticism is not, by the way, 'off topic'. ;)
 
Can we agree that fictional characters don’t have rights?
Only those that the author gives them!

Or those that they give themselves. Sometimes mine surprise even me!
 
This is an excellent and much-needed thread, and I’m glad you’ve started it. Personally I don’t see cruxforums in as much of an ethical grey zone as you do. If we go by the harm principle, very few people are harmed by cruxforums. Nobody is harmed by the art featuring fictional crucifixions. The filmed bondage stuff is a little more ambiguous as to if it harmed anyone, but I would wager than it is, in many ways, less harmful than mainstream porn. Almost nobody wanders here by accident, you have to deliberately search out “crucified women” or something else along those lines to find this site. Most of the people here actually enjoy the pictures and fantasies produced here, so its a place that increases total happiness from a utilitarian perspective. Of course, maybe if you more religious than me, or more of a virtue ethicist, you might disagree as to the ethics of this forum.
 
Well , I wonder ...
Is that wanting to say that we couldn't talk about real BDSM ?
Is that wanting to say that even the real crucifixion (roped of course) will be bannished from CF ?
Could we not talk or show photos of any whipping , of any red marks stricking a body ?

In this case, why to be there ?
In this case, I think that one half of what it posted here will disapear !
If CF is following deviantart (or other) trend , we're going to a dark world ...

Some thoughts ... Messa
 
Well , I wonder ...
Is that wanting to say that we couldn't talk about real BDSM ?
Is that wanting to say that even the real crucifixion (roped of course) will be bannished from CF ?
Could we not talk or show photos of any whipping , of any red marks stricking a body ?


In this case, why to be there ?
In this case, I think that one half of what it posted here will disapear !
If CF is following deviantart (or other) trend , we're going to a dark world ...


Some thoughts ... Messa
Thanks Messa, for bringing your BDSM experience to the thread.

My understanding is that BDSM can be realistic and edgy, but can still be practised in a safe and consensual manner?

I don't believe there is anything unethical or immoral about BDSM.
 
@Wragg well said and kudos for starting this thread.
Yes it is a fantasy, albeit an unconventional one,(considering...) we are here to share our deepest darkest thoughts and bizarre, perverted ideas. (Hopefully without discrimination and negative feedback !!)
MOST of the subjects depicted are paid, PROFESSIONAL Models...performing under strict guidelines.
Perhaps there are people willing to share their own experience of Crux,that's fine as long as nobody gets hurt in the process....
We all have our OWN particular kink,and it's a welcome release to be able to share our innermost thoughts and experiences with like-minded folk.....
 
discussions of how to commit criminal acts and get away with it.
Just make sure that your crimes are "investigated" by a couple of detectives named Stan Goldman and Barbara Moore and you should be in the clear...;)

I have pointed out on other threads that mainstream crime fiction often describes acts of a gruesomeness as extreme or even more so than much of what is shown here on CF. Just as an example, I'm sure many of you have seen "The Silence of the Lambs", which won multiple Oscars and other awards-is there anyone depicted here that is more evil than Hannibal Lecter?

Personally, as many of you know, I tend to write stories in which the heroine and/or hero triumphs at the end. That is my personal preference and not necessarily more moral than stories where they don't.

So, I don't see a real moral issue with the content here in general, unless it depicts real . I will say that there are threads here I find overly repetitive and/or not very well done artistically and I reserve my right to occasionally voice those views on the offending threads...
 
I don't believe there is anything unethical or immoral about BDSM.
So, perhaps that I was misunderstanding what you wanted to say , wragg ...

MOST of the subjects depicted are paid, PROFESSIONAL Models...performing under strict guidelines.
It's what I deplore ...

Perhaps there are people willing to share their own experience of Crux,that's fine as long as nobody gets hurt in the process....
Yes and it could be a pity if we cant share ... Alas, it seems that we're less and less numerous to wish that : we've not the ancient discussions about these topics ... Perhaps it's because people are coming there only to consume pics and videos that payed girls make for us ... :(
 
Yes and it could be a pity if we cant share ... Alas, it seems that we're less and less numerous to wish that : we've not the ancient discussions about these topics ... Perhaps it's because people are coming there only to consume pics and videos that payed girls make for us ... :(
Messaline, your contributions from your real experience are very much appreciated. Please realize that it is only a very small minority of the active posters here (I believe, I could be wrong) who have enjoyed real life, loving relationships with significant BDSM. We have lived our lives (some, like me have most of their lives behind them) with only fantasy to fall back on. Whether stories or pictures posted here are real, or staged, or paid, or fake, it is all we have.
I am fiercely opposed to RL, non-consensual harm of anyone in any circumstances (except self-defense; or appropriate judicial). But, here on CF, we cannot always know the full story behind a picture or video or story. Unless we do know it was produced non-consensually, I believe it is OK.
 
So, perhaps that I was misunderstanding what you wanted to say , wragg ...


It's what I deplore ...


Yes and it could be a pity if we cant share ... Alas, it seems that we're less and less numerous to wish that : we've not the ancient discussions about these topics ... Perhaps it's because people are coming there only to consume pics and videos that payed girls make for us ... :(
@messaline . Don't worry I'm happy to see anybody act out a Crux scenario,whether professional, or an ordinary person. (irrespective of gender or sexual oriention.)
 
Messaline, your contributions from your real experience are very much appreciated. Please realize that it is only a very small minority of the active posters here (I believe, I could be wrong) who have enjoyed real life, loving relationships with significant BDSM. We have lived our lives (some, like me have most of their lives behind them) with only fantasy to fall back on. Whether stories or pictures posted here are real, or staged, or paid, or fake, it is all we have.
I am fiercely opposed to RL, non-consensual harm of anyone in any circumstances (except self-defense; or appropriate judicial). But, here on CF, we cannot always know the full story behind a picture or video or story. Unless we do know it was produced non-consensually, I believe it is OK.
That's true... I enjoy it only through Messaline! :)
 
Not being able to express our interest of crucifixion I think would do more harm. I am very grateful that there is a place I can go to where I can express it and feel accepted by others. Knowing that there are others who share some way of thinking gives a sense of comfort to express freely the way we think. It is a part of ourselves that we can express in a place without fear of retribution.
 
Not being able to express our interest of crucifixion I think would do more harm. I am very grateful that there is a place I can go to where I can express it and feel accepted by others. Knowing that there are others who share some way of thinking gives a sense of comfort to express freely the way we think. It is a part of ourselves that we can express in a place without fear of retribution.
Absolutely. Well said @ShadowWolf !!
 
I don't believe there is anything unethical or immoral about BDSM.
The thing about ethics and morality are that these ideas try to treat the same thing, but are really two different philosophical concepts. Ethics is about a consistent pattern of behaviour and the principles underlying that behaviour. In that sense, CF has a code of ethics, as does BDSM. We do not promote the doing of harm in real life, but only explore various forms of eroticism and fantasy through our stories, pictures, and discussion. In that sense, what we do here is entirely ethical.

Morality, on the other hand is a personal judgement. One can be a regular viewer of porn, or a writer of erotic stories, even within the ethical guidelines of CF, and still consider oneself "immoral" based on one's personal beliefs and ideals. In that sense, whether we are ethical or not, there will be people who consider what we do immoral.

In that sense, I think it is more important that we continue to try remain ethical. We can't do very much about the perceptions of others with regard to some aspects of morality.
 
The thing about ethics and morality are that these ideas try to treat the same thing, but are really two different philosophical concepts. Ethics is about a consistent pattern of behaviour and the principles underlying that behaviour. In that sense, CF has a code of ethics, as does BDSM. We do not promote the doing of harm in real life, but only explore various forms of eroticism and fantasy through our stories, pictures, and discussion. In that sense, what we do here is entirely ethical.

Morality, on the other hand is a personal judgement. One can be a regular viewer of porn, or a writer of erotic stories, even within the ethical guidelines of CF, and still consider oneself "immoral" based on one's personal beliefs and ideals. In that sense, whether we are ethical or not, there will be people who consider what we do immoral.

In that sense, I think it is more important that we continue to try remain ethical. We can't do very much about the perceptions of others with regard to some aspects of morality.

Well said. An important distinction!
 
We do not promote the doing of harm in real life,
Is it really true if we talk about what we do in real life ?
Not sure, it could be perceived like an incitment to practise and in this case, our detractors can attack us ...
For me, I dont consider that I've no Ethics and that there is no Ethics in BDSM ...
It's exactelly like when common people are making love , with only some different manners ...
 
I think there have been a few times I’ve been weirded out by posters, who seem to want to go beyond having an erotic fantasy and actual exercise their hatred of women. I personally find that immoral, but if I saw it, I wouldn’t comment on it or let my prejudice show.

For me, I’m concerned with being a hypocrite. I do consider myself a male feminist, and I do have a lot of strong women around me, and in terms of fiction I love the heroine. People irl know that about me, but I wonder if they’ll see me as a hypocrite if they know the fantasies I enjoy and the stories I want to create. I have no fears here, but I still sometimes act like I’m under 24 hour survellience, and that people can somehow see through me and judge me.
Maybe these observations are less appropriate for the ethics thread and more suitable for a paranoia thread, but that’s what I’ve been thinking about.
 
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