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Worried about ethics? Don't derail the thread, post here instead!

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Lust said:
I have had similar experiences in a game called Saint's Row. I almost starting feeling bad with some of the stuff you can do in that game from organised crime via drugs, prostitution, sex slaves from overseas, and whatnot. I had my female character who I made to look as close to myself at the time as possible strip naked, and just start mowing people down in the street. The game lets you play naked, but blurs out the "naughty" bits.

Game is a bit of a parody of GTA, though. Has porn star actress Sasha Grey in one of the voice roles as well as Burt Reynolds and Hulk Hogan, so you know it's crazy.
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Played Saints Row 2, 3 and 4, loved these games, so much fun. (The dildobat, what a great weapon!:D )

But to be honest, SR is a so funny and unrealistic game, that it can't really be compared to GTA since 4th episode, way more realistic.
I could say that the SR are more like old GTAs (1, 2, and a bit 3 and Vice City), made for the lolz!
 
windar said:
That is one area where I do see potential ethical issues. More so than the perpetrators, I see issues with the girls depicted almost all being white, whereas the victims of slavery or crucifixion were largely not. Yes, the Romans certainly crucified slaves from Europe, but probably a great many of those crucified, including Jesus, were at least brown. And certainly, while the Barbary pirates did seize European slaves (I believe Barb and I wrote a story about that;)) the majority of those enslaved all over the world and over time were not white.

So I show this picture by Jucundus which shows a more historically accurate situation. View attachment 668340
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This is indeed one of the more overlooked issues - not just in crux fic but perhaps more importantly in the general slavefic sphere. (At least in cruxfic it isn't usually painted as not that bad or even romantic!) As brutally universal as slavery is, it's legacy hangs heavier over Africans then others in the modern day. Perhpas that's one reason many reach for classical slavery as a verifiable counter-example. Perhaps sexually exploitative art of black slaves carries the whiff of racism. Perhpas it's a follow-on from real pics, which I imagine struggle to attract black models. Or perhaps most of the viewers just find white girls prettier or easier to empathise with. In any case, it's not clear what the right response is.
 
As for the matter or misogyny - this can obviously be diluted by not focusing the violence entirely on women. To be precise, there are levels - from the outright misogynist worlds of much slavefic to total equality in pictures. I tend towards a middle ground, with women being the focus of the stories but not especially targeted in-world, but I can enjoy other kinds too. And of course, there's always the option of including females as the inflictors of punishment too - though depending on how it's done, that might not help with the not-misogynistic thing...
 
windar said:
Just make sure that your crimes are "investigated" by a couple of detectives named Stan Goldman and Barbara Moore and you should be in the clear...;)

I have pointed out on other threads that mainstream crime fiction often describes acts of a gruesomeness as extreme or even more so than much of what is shown here on CF. Just as an example, I'm sure many of you have seen "The Silence of the Lambs", which won multiple Oscars and other awards-is there anyone depicted here that is more evil than Hannibal Lecter?

Personally, as many of you know, I tend to write stories in which the heroine and/or hero triumphs at the end. That is my personal preference and not necessarily more moral than stories where they don't.

So, I don't see a real moral issue with the content here in general, unless it depicts real . I will say that there are threads here I find overly repetitive and/or not very well done artistically and I reserve my right to occasionally voice those views on the offending threads...
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Most of our more extreme fantasies are only cerebral anyway and the thought police have not yet taken over, although I am sure there are people out there who would like them to.
 
KageKamen said:
Well, a kind of action at least. Making a picture of a crucifixion isn't the same as crucifying someone. But it's not the same as just thinking about it, either.
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Sorry, but I see this as hairsplitting. Following your conclusions I am more away from really cruxifying someone as some of our authors and artists, because I have neither written a story nor drawn a pic. In reality I haven´t done it only because I can´t.
Your argumentation is the first step to thought police. Its often seen in the catholic church (the only religion I know anything about). Thinking wrong things leads to doing wrong things. So you are a bad person, a sinner, and you have to look for forgiveness from the same instituition that makes the rules. How convenient in manipulating people.
 
This site isn't intended for every one. My Marie gets the creeps from this because of her religious upbringing. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I find beauty in the art and imaginative stories on this site. If a person doesn't like such things or if the don't like to see gore they shouldn't watch half the stuff on tv and in the movies. I don't feel the moral obligation to accept anyones judgement and don't wish judge anyone elses phantacies.
 
A couple of thoughts:

If you expect to be allowed to exercise the right of free speech you have an obligation to allow and defend EVERYONE else's right to free speech no matter much you object to their speech.

People should be condemned for actions not thoughts.

Art, no matter how offensive, DOES NOT create unacceptable or criminal activity. It takes a human ACTING (usually) INTENTIONALLY to do that.

Maybe if we made people a little more responsible for their actions we might be living in a better world.

And you could choke an elephant with the popular modern western misconceptions about "African" slavery. Funny how the Africans themselves are more up front and honest about it than we are.

kisses

willowfall
 
I have not been to West Africa, but certainly in East Africa the history of slavery is openly acknowledged and discussed. I know several people in Zanzibar who trace their ancestry back to slavers and slaves. The interesting thing there is that many of the slavers, and even the captains of slave dhows, were themselves slaves.

Clearly a very different type of slavery, where a slave, the captain of a dhow, could go voyaging for years, absolutely free to run at any time.

The rules applying to slaves in East Africa, Zanzibar in particular, were somewhat unique, in that slaves could travel, own property and work for their own account. All this with the permission of the owner. Interestingly they could take their owners to court in cases of abuse!
 
For those who raise concerns about our fantasies here on CF, please consider how often versions (sometimes sanitized) of what we think about appear in mainstream films. Take for example, whipping scenes. Ralphus, on his site "Bring out the Gimp", has collected a database of "whipping scenes in the movies" in which he has identified nearly 500 examples by my count (just taking into account the female ones). If Hollywood, and filmakers in general, have figured out that there is a market out there for this kind of thing, it must be substantial or they wouldn't bother. And that doesn't take into account Ralphus' databases on rack scenes, hot iron scenes, electric shock scenes.

Just saying ....
 
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theseus said:
I have not been to West Africa, but certainly in East Africa the history of slavery is openly acknowledged and discussed. I know several people in Zanzibar who trace their ancestry back to slavers and slaves. The interesting thing there is that many of the slavers, and even the captains of slave dhows, were themselves slaves.

Clearly a very different type of slavery, where a slave, the captain of a dhow, could go voyaging for years, absolutely free to run at any time.

The rules applying to slaves in East Africa, Zanzibar in particular, were somewhat unique, in that slaves could travel, own property and work for their own account. All this with the permission of the owner. Interestingly they could take their owners to court in cases of abuse!
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Yes, the role of African rulers and their warriors in the slave-trade,
and the extent to which they profited from it, rarely gets mentioned -
it's no excuse or apology for the way Europeans cashed in on it,
but they were moving into already long-established patterns
of slave raiding and marketing in west and north Africa.
 
Barbaria1 said:
"whipping scenes in the movies" in which he has identified nearly 500 examples by my count (just taking into account the female ones).
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You counted nearly 500! Barb?
My love for you is immeasurable
My respect for you immense
You're ageless, timeless, lace and fineness
You're beauty and elegance - Rod Stewart
 
Barbaria1 said:
For those who raise concerns about our fantasies here on CF, please consider how often versions (sometimes sanitized) of what we think about appear in mainstream films. Take for example, whipping scenes. Ralphus, on his site "Bring out the Gimp", has collected a database of "whipping scenes in the movies" in which he has identified nearly 500 examples by my count (just taking into account the female ones). If Hollywood, and filmakers in general, have figured out that there is a market out there for this kind of thing, it must be substantial or they wouldn't bother. And that doesn't take into account Ralphus' databases on rack scenes, hot iron and scenes, electric shock scenes.

Just saying ....
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The female ones are the only ones worth taking into account !!!
 
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