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Worried about ethics? Don't derail the thread, post here instead!
- Thread starter Wragg
- Start date
twonines
LIMERICUS
Are you sure its not Sir Cumcision?
twonines
LIMERICUS
You think correctly.Take that as a compliment ... I think
fallenmystic
Tribune
I think I have pretty clear criteria as to what is right and what is not regarding my darkest sexual fantasies. And there are two separate ones which I apply to ethics and preferences respectively.
As to ethics, the only rule I have regarding the matter is not mixing fantasies and reality under any circumstances. I know there are people who take their D/s relationships or such fantasies seriously, which is great. But even if you can immerse yourself in such a lifestyle 24/7, it's still a fantasy.
As I see the line between those two worlds so strictly separable, I don't have to be hindered by my real life morality or political stance from enjoying the most debased, and extreme kind of sexual fantasies (that is in my head, unfortunately, as I can't really seek actual D/s relationship).
In real life I support feminism (which has a certain social stigma where I live, not much less severe than one you'd get if you say "I support ISIS" in a western country). And recently, I spent half of a day trying to persuade other people why they shouldn't use discriminating words against people of different ethnicity in a local online community. In my country, blatant racism is rampant among most online communities, unfortunately, so I got tons of insults from majority of them by doing so.
But if I cross the boundary to enter my fantasy world, I love to degrade my characters in my story (not plural, since there's just one so far) by calling them 'cunt' or 'Chinks' and put them through such humiliating torments which I would never even dream of in real life. Personally, I even believe that such fantasies involving children shouldn't be condemned as such, although I incidentally don't have such fetishes, so I don't indulge myself in materials with such a theme.
The reason is that, even if I was somehow give a supernatural power to do whatever I want with people without any repercussion - like taking random girls as my slaves and rape them without getting caught or even noticed by anyone, I still wouldn't do such acts because I don't want to hurt real people either physically or psychologically for my pleasure.
So, I believe as long as you can keep your darkest desires and perversions behind that line all the time (even when nobody is watching), you shouldn't get blamed for the implication of your fantasies in real world, whatever they are.
As to the criteria I apply to my personal preferences in such fantasies, however. I just imagine I have a state-of-art virtual reality device that allows me practically 'living' a life of any character in whatever setting I can program.
If I had such a device, I'd definitely build something like the underground mine of Tibool's drawings where unwashed, naked slave girls are put to most extreme sorts of abuse and forced labour. And I'd love to 'play' one of those slave girls to experience the world from their perspective, enjoying the feeling of humiliation and degradation until I get tired of it.
However, I wouldn't put myself upon a burning stake or allow my limbs to be mutilated upon a cross, because I wouldn't enjoy it at all from an receiving end, even in such a virtual world. So, while I'm feeling perfectly fine with people who indulge in such fantasies (probably from the other end, because I can hardly imagine how any person can actually 'enjoy' the feeling of their skin melting down in flames), I try to stay away from such themes.
That is how I see the matter of ethics and preferences regarding BDSM fantasies myself.
As to ethics, the only rule I have regarding the matter is not mixing fantasies and reality under any circumstances. I know there are people who take their D/s relationships or such fantasies seriously, which is great. But even if you can immerse yourself in such a lifestyle 24/7, it's still a fantasy.
As I see the line between those two worlds so strictly separable, I don't have to be hindered by my real life morality or political stance from enjoying the most debased, and extreme kind of sexual fantasies (that is in my head, unfortunately, as I can't really seek actual D/s relationship).
In real life I support feminism (which has a certain social stigma where I live, not much less severe than one you'd get if you say "I support ISIS" in a western country). And recently, I spent half of a day trying to persuade other people why they shouldn't use discriminating words against people of different ethnicity in a local online community. In my country, blatant racism is rampant among most online communities, unfortunately, so I got tons of insults from majority of them by doing so.
But if I cross the boundary to enter my fantasy world, I love to degrade my characters in my story (not plural, since there's just one so far) by calling them 'cunt' or 'Chinks' and put them through such humiliating torments which I would never even dream of in real life. Personally, I even believe that such fantasies involving children shouldn't be condemned as such, although I incidentally don't have such fetishes, so I don't indulge myself in materials with such a theme.
The reason is that, even if I was somehow give a supernatural power to do whatever I want with people without any repercussion - like taking random girls as my slaves and rape them without getting caught or even noticed by anyone, I still wouldn't do such acts because I don't want to hurt real people either physically or psychologically for my pleasure.
So, I believe as long as you can keep your darkest desires and perversions behind that line all the time (even when nobody is watching), you shouldn't get blamed for the implication of your fantasies in real world, whatever they are.
As to the criteria I apply to my personal preferences in such fantasies, however. I just imagine I have a state-of-art virtual reality device that allows me practically 'living' a life of any character in whatever setting I can program.
If I had such a device, I'd definitely build something like the underground mine of Tibool's drawings where unwashed, naked slave girls are put to most extreme sorts of abuse and forced labour. And I'd love to 'play' one of those slave girls to experience the world from their perspective, enjoying the feeling of humiliation and degradation until I get tired of it.
However, I wouldn't put myself upon a burning stake or allow my limbs to be mutilated upon a cross, because I wouldn't enjoy it at all from an receiving end, even in such a virtual world. So, while I'm feeling perfectly fine with people who indulge in such fantasies (probably from the other end, because I can hardly imagine how any person can actually 'enjoy' the feeling of their skin melting down in flames), I try to stay away from such themes.
That is how I see the matter of ethics and preferences regarding BDSM fantasies myself.
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An interesting point. I deal mostly in erotic comedy these days (either in story or manips), but have certainly written more "dramatic" stories of cruelty, crucifixion, and death. I never imagined that my characters enjoyed the experience. For me, the fantasy aspect is in the visceral and vicarious experience of strong emotion. Resignation, hopelessness, and despair in the face of death are fascinating, and confer a sort of innocence on the victim. Coupled with the humiliation of the execution experience, which is a sort of helplessness, this makes for a strong erotic element in those sorts of fantasies. For me, this is purely through imagery and art. Like you, I would never want to inflict that sort of pain or torture on anyone in reality. I have mentioned to a few other fellow writers/artists on the forums here that writing a story of that sort actually causes a physiological reaction for me, akin to anxiety, since I feel something like affection for most of my characters. Anyway, that's all part of the fantasy experience for me.
fallenmystic
Tribune
I think I understand what you said, and I do agree with the sentiments.
Actually, I see it more or less as a coin. What I mean is, it's something similar to two different sides of the same coin, and its appearance changes depending on the perspective. Except pure sadists or masochists among us (which is, of course, not a bad thing), we all love such psychological aspect of sexual torments to some degree, which including such "resignation, hopelessness, and despair" you wrote the victim's mind who are suffering such a fate.
The only difference, I believe, is that, some of us prefer to see the coin from its head's side, while others from the tail's end. As such, those who have a tendency to enjoy such stories from the victim's perspective like myself have narrower margin for actual physical pain involved in such fantasies before I feel put off by imagining such agonizing pain on my own body.
But if you happened to see the same coin from the opposite end, it's perfectly natural to see the victim through its most gory demise, because the pain is on the victim's, not yours, in that case. And the same goes for those who can view the coin from the side, as a spectator's perspective.
So, I don't think it's a matter of right or wrong, but of personal preferences.
Who can blame me if say I love pineapples in my pizza anyway?
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So very similar to mi own views. I do sometimes worry about the effects such things do have on both us and others, though. But since I'm selfish, I don't let such worries stop me from indulging mi interests.
And as for preferences, I've noticed that I'm something of a half-switch - I can dom as myself or a character, but I can only sub as the latter. I guess it's a defense mechanism of some sort - I don't find much pleasure in imaging miself as a victim.
Indeed, while everyone of course has their own tastes, I have to admit to finding the number of victims on this site who embrace their suffering a little odd. Especially for crux, as intense and fatal as it is.
Taken in context, I think I see your point, but I need to remind you and all readers that any form of fantasy involving children will never be tolerated on this site.
fallenmystic
Tribune
I can assure you that you won't have to worry that from me. Aside from my lacking interest of that particular fetish, and my sympathy for those who do (and share similar ethical standards as mine), I understand there are also practical problems to consider which may bring to the entire site severe repercussions if ignored.
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Indeed - it 's just more trouble than it 's worth, especially given that the kind of fantasies we indulge here are unpopular enough with mainstream society.
In support of what Wragg said earlier, it is not a matter of what fantasies a person may have individually or in the privacy of their own mind. It is not just a matter of the morality (or lack thereof) at CruxForums. There are serious legal issues involved regarding any mention of underage persons on a forum like this. We exist "at the pleasure" of society, so to speak, and, whether we have fantasies of whatever sort and have morally come to terms with them or not, we are subject to certain legal realities.
I appreciate that the mention in earlier posts was meant to illustrate a philosophical point, and not an endorsement of any particular behaviour. That said, and as Wragg indicated, depictions of underage characters, even as bystanders in a story or image, is not tolerated, but we would also also appreciate it if members could find other "examples" in discussing these interesting moral/ethical issues. It is really not that hard to spend whole months at CF without once discussing anything to do with anyone under 18.
I appreciate that the mention in earlier posts was meant to illustrate a philosophical point, and not an endorsement of any particular behaviour. That said, and as Wragg indicated, depictions of underage characters, even as bystanders in a story or image, is not tolerated, but we would also also appreciate it if members could find other "examples" in discussing these interesting moral/ethical issues. It is really not that hard to spend whole months at CF without once discussing anything to do with anyone under 18.
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The bottom line is, our service provider, XenForo, on the whole a very satisfactory support system,
and broad-minded, are (understandably) categorical - no depiction, no mention, of under-age.
They don't want to be shut down, nor do we want them to shut us down.
and broad-minded, are (understandably) categorical - no depiction, no mention, of under-age.
They don't want to be shut down, nor do we want them to shut us down.