naildance
Magistrate
I would refuse to walk ;-) what would you do as my executioner?
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The female executioner for Numerus Brittonum et Exploratorum Nemanigensium
- Thread starter cire
- Start date
cire
Governor
That is so far a good idea. Keep in mind, that your arms are tied to the crossbeam for the march. Also will there be a rope around
your waist, so a guard can lead you easier when you faint.
This was done also for the case that the victim had been flogged too heavy, then simply was to weak to walk anymore.
Or eventually was to scared of the crucifixion, and therefore had to be dragged to the execution.
As you can see, the walk was anything else but boring
.The guards didn't mind. To them it was just a task. The condemned weren't considered to be "human" in the sense of our roman friends.
It was well possible that every once in a while a victim died on the march.
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naildance
Magistrate
That is so far a good idea. Keep in mind, that your arms are tied to the crossbeam for the march. Also will there be a rope around
your waist, so a guard can lead you easier when you faint.
This was done also for the case that the victim had been flogged too heavy, then simply was to weak to walk anymore.
Or eventually was to scared of the crucifixion, and therefore had to be dragged to the execution.
As you can see, the walk was anything else but boring
The guards didn't mind. To them it was just a task. The condemned weren't considered to be "human" in the sense of our roman friends.
It was well possible that every once in a while a victim died on the march.
cire
Governor
The crucifixion that was excecuted by the romans probably looked much different than what we think. The executioners really needed to know what they were doing. Other than that it wasn't working. They had to calculate what the victim could take and still give the audience a good spectacle. But that is just my perspective.....
cire
Governor
You replied with a question Naildance. Lol.
But honestly, I'm not sure how I would take it. To answer this question, I need some time to go down deeper.
You will see it asap.
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naildance
Magistrate
A thin rope around the testicles to be dragged forward and a leather strap with inner thorns around the neck draws me back and prevents from walking too fast, when I fall on my bare knees you easily "help" me getting up again...
Praefectus Praetorio
R.I.P. Brother of the Quill
Agree. Executioners are always a skilled set.
cire
Governor
NAILING THE WRISTS
Dena was tought by her fellow executioners and the military physicians, how to place the nail in the right spot on the wrist.
The physicians took an arm from a skeleton to show her, where it has to go through without causing serious damage.
Pressing her thumb into the wrist, she learned how to find the spot for the nail.
Of course, that knowledge didn't drive the nails in for her. The key word to do that with deadly certainty is repetition.
She had to hammer the nail into the wood and pulled it back out again hundreds of times. After a while she was even able to place the nail, hold it in her fist, drive it in, and would still follow the conversation around her without missing the nailhead.
.
Again, this page found by Eulalia explains the issue very well.......
Dena was tought by her fellow executioners and the military physicians, how to place the nail in the right spot on the wrist.
The physicians took an arm from a skeleton to show her, where it has to go through without causing serious damage.
Pressing her thumb into the wrist, she learned how to find the spot for the nail.
Of course, that knowledge didn't drive the nails in for her. The key word to do that with deadly certainty is repetition.
She had to hammer the nail into the wood and pulled it back out again hundreds of times. After a while she was even able to place the nail, hold it in her fist, drive it in, and would still follow the conversation around her without missing the nailhead.
.
Again, this page found by Eulalia explains the issue very well.......
cire
Governor
A WAY TO NAIL THE FEET
Dena had to learn about the diversity when it comes to attach the victims feet to the upright. Here one version found by Eulalia:
ONE NAIL
A skeleton, and the information from the physicians helped her to spot the right place with her thumb on the foot. Once the nail was placed on top of the first foot, she had to hold the nail in her fist and drive it through until she could see or feel the tip coming out of the sole.
Then the already pierced foot had to be placed in a perfect manner on top of the other one. Dena had to check that the nail made it's way through the bottom foot correctly, too.
Easy to see now, why there was always a complete experienced team involved to crucify the condemned.
UNDER THE CONDEMNED
To nail the feet can be tricky for the executioner, especially when raised with the crossbeam. Dena was told that when she works literally under the condemned, there is always the danger that the victim may urinates. Therefore she had to learn to decide, when she'd give her victims to drink, or when she'd remove the loincloth.
This manip by PhilX can give us an idea what the executioners had to worry about:
Watch out Dena but keep going.......
Dena had to learn about the diversity when it comes to attach the victims feet to the upright. Here one version found by Eulalia:
ONE NAIL
A skeleton, and the information from the physicians helped her to spot the right place with her thumb on the foot. Once the nail was placed on top of the first foot, she had to hold the nail in her fist and drive it through until she could see or feel the tip coming out of the sole.
Then the already pierced foot had to be placed in a perfect manner on top of the other one. Dena had to check that the nail made it's way through the bottom foot correctly, too.
Easy to see now, why there was always a complete experienced team involved to crucify the condemned.
UNDER THE CONDEMNED
To nail the feet can be tricky for the executioner, especially when raised with the crossbeam. Dena was told that when she works literally under the condemned, there is always the danger that the victim may urinates. Therefore she had to learn to decide, when she'd give her victims to drink, or when she'd remove the loincloth.
This manip by PhilX can give us an idea what the executioners had to worry about:
Watch out Dena but keep going.......
Attachments
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cire
Governor
CARRYING THE CROSSBEAM
The crucifixion is subdivided into certain steps. The march to the sessorium is another part of it. I like these old tables that Eulalia has posted.
View attachment 628396
Very well possible that the walk to the sessorium was everything else but just a boring drag to the final destination. Neither for the condemned, and definitely not for the crowd.
Even people that wouldn't attend the crucifixion had the chance to insult the victims and make jokes. The condemned on the other hand, depending on their condition, could reply to it
If I was forced to carry the crossbeam after the flogging, here is how I'd probably react:
Hopefully I'd be allowed to put my clothes back on, before the patibulum is placed on my shoulders and my arms are tied to it.
The weight would force me to look down and the wood would tear up my back even more, causing tremendous pain.
I'd still be in the state of shock from the scourging, my hole body trembling, encouraging the spectators to laugh at me, to make jokes concerning the dirty rags I wear and how I look.
The guards then would tie a rope around my waist and may push and pull me to start walking.
I'd watch my steps. Just looking down and most likely ignoring the screaming mob. By now I'd understand fully that when I fall down or act fractious, I'd just suffer more.
Maybe after some time after I had started the walk, I'd look up and reply to some comments of the mob. But all in all, I'd do everything I could to get to the execution site.......
It's really hard to think about how I'd feel. Abandoned for sure. What is it like when you are just doing your best to get to the execution site with the patibulum on your shoulders?
Giving all the power that you have left in your body to help your torturers must be the absolute horror, what an experience
!!!This is so individual, but so very exciting.
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naildance
Magistrate
If I was forced to carry the crossbeam after the flogging, here is how I'd probably react:
Hopefully I'd be allowed to put my clothes back on, before the patibulum is placed on my shoulders and my arms are tied to it.
The weight would force me to look down and the wood would tear up my back even more, causing tremendous pain.
I'd still be in the state of shock from the scourging, my hole body trembling, encouraging the spectators to laugh at me, to make jokes concerning the dirty rags I wear and how I look.
The guards then would tie a rope around my waist and may push and pull me to start walking.
I'd watch my steps. Just looking down and most likely ignoring the screaming mob. By now I'd understand fully that when I fall down or act fractious, I'd just suffer more.
Maybe after some time after I had started the walk, I'd look up and reply to some comments of the mob. But all in all, I'd do everything I could to get to the execution site.......
It's really hard to think about how I'd feel. Abandoned for sure. What is it like when you are just doing your best to get to the execution site with the patibulum on your shoulders?
Giving all the power that you have left in your body to help your torturers must be the absolute horror, what an experience
This is so individual, but so very exciting.
cire
Governor
That would be very humiliating, this relies probably on the situation and of course on the torturers.
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cire
Governor
The more I think about the issue, the more can I say that for me it wouldn't make a difference if my executioner is a woman or a man. But that depends a lot on how you lived, and if you were raised in an open society. For men that grew up as something "special", this may causes an emotional turmoil. The result though, is the same.......
cire
Governor
CARRYING THE CROSSBEAM
The crucifixion is subdivided into certain steps. The march to the sessorium is another part of it. I like these old tables that Eulalia has posted.
View attachment 628396
Very well possible that the walk to the sessorium was everything else but just a boring drag to the final destination. Neither for the condemned, and definitely not for the crowd.
Even people that wouldn't attend the crucifixion had the chance to insult the victims and make jokes. The condemned on the other hand, depending on their condition, could reply to it
Repertor has created these great images of THE CARRYING.
To me this documents well, that even the march is divided into certain steps. Beginning from the point after the flogging, when the crossbeam is placed on the shoulders, to the walk through the streets and the arrival at the Sessorium.
Especially the arrival is giving me thrills in this case. The already crucified will watch closely how the next condemned is walking up and will be fixed, too. Again there is all these different emotions from different people in various situations.
Some have fun, some are insulting, some are suffering horrified, and others are just doing their job.
The approaching victim has the chance to look around and see, what is going to happen to her........
Here as always, I'm trying to place myself into the attending characters, to get an idea, but just an idea.
To finally understand, you'd really have to be there.
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cire
Governor
DIVERSITY
Dena had to gain knowledge of what actually could be done, before she was assigned to her first execution.
Upside down, St. Andrews cross, just the Stipes, a high or a low cross, all these possibilities got mentioned.
The other executioners explained that most of the time, they used a regular low cross. Attached the condemned to the Patibulum and then lifted this "assembly" onto the stipes.
Now and then the victim was just nailed to the already mounted cross on the ground.
That, so they stated, had to do with a certain entertainment and an additional thrilling show effect, when they raised the cross.
Is the condemned fixed with the face to the cross, with the arms behind the Patibulum, the Stipes inclined to the front, declined
to the back, or straight. All that was an option and had to do with the preferences of the executioner.
In a lot of cases, slaves faced the execution for actually nothing, but still their owner decided to do so, just to get off on the power over life and death.
Ropes, nails, sometimes both, could be used to attach the victims.
If Dena wanted to, she could allow the condemned to put some clothes back on after the flogging, or eventually give her approval for a loincloth on the cross. In many cases when slaves had to be executed, the owner advised, if the dying happened completely undressed.
That normally was agreed with the customers. But they could not advise how his condemned "property" was fixed to the cross, this was exclusively up to the skills of the executioners.
When Aurelian had sold an execution to one of the landowners in the area, he always pointed out that it's up to the executioner, how he wanted to attach his victim. A rule that couldn't be touched.
The worst thing that Aurelian could think of, was a scenario of discussing guards, customers, torturers, spectators and victims. Due to massive alcohol abuse of the executioners in the forts nearby, all kind of bullshit that nobody needs, so he thought, went down already.
Then the executioners and guards reported about prolongation to Dena.
When, how and what to give the crucified to drink for an extended dying. To maybe get the hanging drunk, was for sure a lot of fun for the audience.
The conversation amongst the crowd, the guards and the crucified sometimes was reaching a sensational entertainment value. Well done the dying could last up to five days, they stated. With of course only the first few hours generating disport.
Especially when the cross was equiped with some sort of seat and a sedile, it could happen that the victim vanished into madness after a few days, but was still alive.
Meanwhile two criminals, a woman and a man, had been arrested. Furthermore a landowner had paid Aurelian good money for the crucifixion for three of his slaves. A rebellious female, and two of her friends.
Besides these five persons, two agitating bards were currently under arrest.
Aurelian decided that the criminals would be sentenced to death the next morning. The three slaves would also be snuffed with them. His executioners assigned to the legion taking care of that.
The two rioters would get crucified a day later. Now that is going to be Dena's first task.
Aurelian advised his guards to prepare the sessorium, and made sure that the word was spread around in the village. The two criminals have caused a lot of trouble, he was convinced that the people are going to appreciate this crucifixion a lot. Everybody present expected a big crowd with unexpected interruptions.
Furthermore had the landowner advised all of his slaves and personell, to attend the execution of the rebellious female slave and her two friends.
On the basis of all these facts, Aurelian had increased the number of guards and soldiers at the scene on the first day to forty. On the next day, for the bards he'd drop it to twenty.
Personally Aurelian didn't like mass executions, as a matter of fact, he wasn't a friend of capital punishment at all. Nevertheless it paid off now that Dena was ready, giving him the chance to actually split the crucifixions over two days.
Dena intended to watch the executions on the next day, to may gain some more impressions for her task.
Wine from the rolling hills around the Moenus valley was then served, and they all shared the feeling of control.......total control.
I have attached drawings from Yusseby, that shocked and captured me immediately.
Thank you very much for your outstanding work Yusseby
Dena had to gain knowledge of what actually could be done, before she was assigned to her first execution.
Upside down, St. Andrews cross, just the Stipes, a high or a low cross, all these possibilities got mentioned.
The other executioners explained that most of the time, they used a regular low cross. Attached the condemned to the Patibulum and then lifted this "assembly" onto the stipes.
Now and then the victim was just nailed to the already mounted cross on the ground.
That, so they stated, had to do with a certain entertainment and an additional thrilling show effect, when they raised the cross.
Is the condemned fixed with the face to the cross, with the arms behind the Patibulum, the Stipes inclined to the front, declined
to the back, or straight. All that was an option and had to do with the preferences of the executioner.
In a lot of cases, slaves faced the execution for actually nothing, but still their owner decided to do so, just to get off on the power over life and death.
Ropes, nails, sometimes both, could be used to attach the victims.
If Dena wanted to, she could allow the condemned to put some clothes back on after the flogging, or eventually give her approval for a loincloth on the cross. In many cases when slaves had to be executed, the owner advised, if the dying happened completely undressed.
That normally was agreed with the customers. But they could not advise how his condemned "property" was fixed to the cross, this was exclusively up to the skills of the executioners.
When Aurelian had sold an execution to one of the landowners in the area, he always pointed out that it's up to the executioner, how he wanted to attach his victim. A rule that couldn't be touched.
The worst thing that Aurelian could think of, was a scenario of discussing guards, customers, torturers, spectators and victims. Due to massive alcohol abuse of the executioners in the forts nearby, all kind of bullshit that nobody needs, so he thought, went down already.
Then the executioners and guards reported about prolongation to Dena.
When, how and what to give the crucified to drink for an extended dying. To maybe get the hanging drunk, was for sure a lot of fun for the audience.
The conversation amongst the crowd, the guards and the crucified sometimes was reaching a sensational entertainment value. Well done the dying could last up to five days, they stated. With of course only the first few hours generating disport.
Especially when the cross was equiped with some sort of seat and a sedile, it could happen that the victim vanished into madness after a few days, but was still alive.
Meanwhile two criminals, a woman and a man, had been arrested. Furthermore a landowner had paid Aurelian good money for the crucifixion for three of his slaves. A rebellious female, and two of her friends.
Besides these five persons, two agitating bards were currently under arrest.
Aurelian decided that the criminals would be sentenced to death the next morning. The three slaves would also be snuffed with them. His executioners assigned to the legion taking care of that.
The two rioters would get crucified a day later. Now that is going to be Dena's first task.
Aurelian advised his guards to prepare the sessorium, and made sure that the word was spread around in the village. The two criminals have caused a lot of trouble, he was convinced that the people are going to appreciate this crucifixion a lot. Everybody present expected a big crowd with unexpected interruptions.
Furthermore had the landowner advised all of his slaves and personell, to attend the execution of the rebellious female slave and her two friends.
On the basis of all these facts, Aurelian had increased the number of guards and soldiers at the scene on the first day to forty. On the next day, for the bards he'd drop it to twenty.
Personally Aurelian didn't like mass executions, as a matter of fact, he wasn't a friend of capital punishment at all. Nevertheless it paid off now that Dena was ready, giving him the chance to actually split the crucifixions over two days.
Dena intended to watch the executions on the next day, to may gain some more impressions for her task.
Wine from the rolling hills around the Moenus valley was then served, and they all shared the feeling of control.......total control.
I have attached drawings from Yusseby, that shocked and captured me immediately.
Thank you very much for your outstanding work Yusseby
Attachments
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cire
Governor
DEATH ON THE CROSS
Here again one of the old tables that Eulalia has posted.
I'm not quite sure that the romans completely understood, why the victims died on their crosses.
On the other hand they must have known, that when the legs are broken the crucified is fading away fast.
However, Dena knew from Physicians and Executioners that when the crucified can't support her/himself anymore by pushing and pulling up, death will come soon.
Dena was tought to attach maybe a sedile or an oportunity for the crucified to sit. Tools she could use for prolongation. This issue has probably been discussed often among the Executioners.
Today we know that in many cases the victims simply suffocated, when they couldn't pull or push themselves up anymore. Other reasons were for instance the sepsis, thrombosis, dehydration and in rare cases blood loss. Blood loss led only accidently to the death on the cross. Has the Executioner made a mistake and damaged an artery, the victim could have considered her/himself fortunated. The long agony then was spared. But the Executioners were trained, so we believe, to keep the crucified alive as long as possible.
Everybody might has a subjective point of view at the very slow perishing of the victims. I'm always shocked, when I think about how the crucified felt, and what the condemned had to endure on the cross before they could die.
Just one of the many factors why I enjoy it........
Here again one of the old tables that Eulalia has posted.
I'm not quite sure that the romans completely understood, why the victims died on their crosses.
On the other hand they must have known, that when the legs are broken the crucified is fading away fast.
However, Dena knew from Physicians and Executioners that when the crucified can't support her/himself anymore by pushing and pulling up, death will come soon.
Dena was tought to attach maybe a sedile or an oportunity for the crucified to sit. Tools she could use for prolongation. This issue has probably been discussed often among the Executioners.
Today we know that in many cases the victims simply suffocated, when they couldn't pull or push themselves up anymore. Other reasons were for instance the sepsis, thrombosis, dehydration and in rare cases blood loss. Blood loss led only accidently to the death on the cross. Has the Executioner made a mistake and damaged an artery, the victim could have considered her/himself fortunated. The long agony then was spared. But the Executioners were trained, so we believe, to keep the crucified alive as long as possible.
Everybody might has a subjective point of view at the very slow perishing of the victims. I'm always shocked, when I think about how the crucified felt, and what the condemned had to endure on the cross before they could die.
Just one of the many factors why I enjoy it........
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morten sigurdson
Voivode of Wallachia
Very interesting, and I"m glad that you wrote here about Daniela"s story, that story I like very much and read it many times. I like that scene, feemale rebelious slave Crucified with her friends, Andrea and Cire are also good characters. That is realy a classic story.DIVERSITY
Dena had to gain knowledge of what actually could be done, before she was assigned to her first execution.
Upside down, St. Andrews cross, just the Stipes, a high or a low cross, all these possibilities got mentioned.
The other executioners explained that most of the time, they used a regular low cross. Attached the condemned to the Patibulum and then lifted this "assembly" onto the stipes.
Now and then the victim was just nailed to the already mounted cross on the ground.
That, so they stated, had to do with a certain entertainment and an additional thrilling show effect, when they raised the cross.
Is the condemned fixed with the face to the cross, with the arms behind the Patibulum, the Stipes inclined to the front, declined
to the back, or straight. All that was an option and had to do with the preferences of the executioner.
In a lot of cases, slaves faced the execution for actually nothing, but still their owner decided to do so, just to get off on the power over life and death.
View attachment 638699View attachment 638705
Ropes, nails, sometimes both, could be used to attach the victims.
If Dena wanted to, she could allow the condemned to put some clothes back on after the flogging, or eventually give her approval for a loincloth on the cross. In many cases when slaves had to be executed, the owner advised, if the dying happened completely undressed.
That normally was agreed with the customers. But they could not advise how his condemned "property" was fixed to the cross, this was exclusively up to the skills of the executioners.
When Aurelian had sold an execution to one of the landowners in the area, he always pointed out that it's up to the executioner, how he wanted to attach his victim. A rule that couldn't be touched.
The worst thing that Aurelian could think of, was a scenario of discussing guards, customers, torturers, spectators and victims. Due to massive alcohol abuse of the executioners in the forts nearby, all kind of bullshit that nobody needs, so he thought, went down already.
Then the executioners and guards reported about prolongation to Dena.
When, how and what to give the crucified to drink for an extended dying. To maybe get the hanging drunk, was for sure a lot of fun for the audience.
View attachment 638700
The conversation amongst the crowd, the guards and the crucified sometimes was reaching a sensational entertainment value. Well done the dying could last up to five days, they stated. With of course only the first few hours generating disport.
Especially when the cross was equiped with some sort of seat and a sedile, it could happen that the victim vanished into madness after a few days, but was still alive.
Meanwhile two criminals, a woman and a man, had been arrested. Furthermore a landowner had paid Aurelian good money for the crucifixion for three of his slaves. A rebellious female, and two of her friends.
Besides these five persons, two agitating bards were currently under arrest.
Aurelian decided that the criminals would be sentenced to death the next morning. The three slaves would also be snuffed with them. His executioners assigned to the legion taking care of that.
The two rioters would get crucified a day later. Now that is going to be Dena's first task.
Aurelian advised his guards to prepare the sessorium, and made sure that the word was spread around in the village. The two criminals have caused a lot of trouble, he was convinced that the people are going to appreciate this crucifixion a lot. Everybody present expected a big crowd with unexpected interruptions.
Furthermore had the landowner advised all of his slaves and personell, to attend the execution of the rebellious female slave and her two friends.
On the basis of all these facts, Aurelian had increased the number of guards and soldiers at the scene on the first day to forty. On the next day, for the bards he'd drop it to twenty.
Personally Aurelian didn't like mass executions, as a matter of fact, he wasn't a friend of capital punishment at all. Nevertheless it paid off now that Dena was ready, giving him the chance to actually split the crucifixions over two days.
Dena intended to watch the executions on the next day, to may gain some more impressions for her task.
Wine from the rolling hills around the Moenus valley was then served, and they all shared the feeling of control.......total control.
I have attached drawings from Yusseby, that shocked and captured me immediately.
Thank you very much for your outstanding work Yusseby
cire
Governor
Thank you very much for liking it and for taking a close look Morten.
What I enjoy, is to enlighten this crucifixion out of the various perspectives. Daniela's, Cire's and Andrea's crucifixion will be monitored by Dena. Up to that point she is an ececutioners trainee. The fact that she will watch the execution of the two male slaves, Daniela, Cire and Andrea will let us look with Dena's eyes.
The characters are not fiction. All of them are real. With Daniela telling me how she is looking at the killings, crucified. Too bad that I couldn't convince her to join the forum and completely state with her words and feelings.... but 100%, she is bitching all over the place.
Well, there is a lot of things to achieve
.