Loxuru
Graf von Kreuzigung
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Milestones
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Praefectus Praetorio
R.I.P. Brother of the Quill
I'm a day late but it's worth mentioning. 170 years ago in 1850, the first National Women's Rights Convention was held in Worcester, Massachusetts. This convention featured speakers such as Lucretia Mott, Sojourner Truth, and Frederick Douglass. One of the issues discussed at the convention was granting women the right to vote (Not everything discussed was so ridiculous!)
poem21045
Tribunus Plebis
Loxuru
Graf von Kreuzigung
He got wounded in action three times, during 1914-1916, got taken by poison gas, survived the near annihilation of his battalion at Verdun, he got condemned to death, there have been several plots to assassinate him (including at least one from his own side), but he died peacefully in his manor, almost eighty years old.
Son of a royalist minded family, he created republican stability in his country, without jeopardizing rights and liberties.
In the 1930’s he wrote a book about future tank warfare, that was mocked and neglected by his own superiors, but that became compulsory reading in the German Wehrmacht, who applied his theories with success in 1940, against France
He became president of France having to counter a military coup. He made peace in the quagmire of Algeria, rode through the May 1968 revolt with electoral success, but abdicated as president after losing a referendum on a minor change of the constitution.
Fifty years ago, on November 9th , 1970, Charles de Gaulle died in his manor in Colombey-les-Deux-Eglises, where he was buried with a modest funeral ceremony, next to his daughter, while world leaders gathered in the Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris for a memorial service.
Son of a royalist minded family, he created republican stability in his country, without jeopardizing rights and liberties.
In the 1930’s he wrote a book about future tank warfare, that was mocked and neglected by his own superiors, but that became compulsory reading in the German Wehrmacht, who applied his theories with success in 1940, against France
He became president of France having to counter a military coup. He made peace in the quagmire of Algeria, rode through the May 1968 revolt with electoral success, but abdicated as president after losing a referendum on a minor change of the constitution.
Fifty years ago, on November 9th , 1970, Charles de Gaulle died in his manor in Colombey-les-Deux-Eglises, where he was buried with a modest funeral ceremony, next to his daughter, while world leaders gathered in the Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris for a memorial service.
M
montycrusto
Guest
I think that’s what we call an “own Gaulle”...
there was a comedy sketch (YEARS ago) where de Gaulle was making a speech to the people of Britain (who at the time were trying to join the EEC rather against de Gaulle’s wishes) .. the guy playing de Gaulle cleared his throat, glared into the camera and began: “ Excrément Britannique..”. The subtitles said “ Good evening my British friends..”
Loxuru
Graf von Kreuzigung
Actually, the Germans added one element to the tactics that de Gaulle had not foreseen : close air support. Many adepts of tank warfare saw little role for aircraft, because they feared that dust and smoke above the ground would prevent pilots to support the tanks in an efficient way. The use of Stuka's proved it was possible indeed.I think that’s what we call an “own Gaulle”...
twonines
LIMERICUS
The Germans, with their normal efficiency, studied and further developed the tactics which Monash and Currie used in 1917/8, which had involved use of the then primitive planes, tanks and the creeping barrage.
De Gaulle in France and Liddle-Hart in Britain were the only ones to realise the value of these tactics and that they could be further developed, but they were ignored!
De Gaulle in France and Liddle-Hart in Britain were the only ones to realise the value of these tactics and that they could be further developed, but they were ignored!
malins
Stumbling Seeker
That would be his daughter Anne, who was born with Down's syndrome and as it was the fate of many with that condition in those days, died young, at 20. By all reports he had an extremely close relationship with her and after her death, it's said that his words were, 'Maintenant, elle est comme les autres.'
New statue commemorating Mary Wollstonecraft "erected" in London, provoking controversy
Interestingly a very respectful (and fully clothed) statue was proposed by a male sculptor, but the committee went for this one by a woman artist
this was the rejected proposal
Mary Wollstonecraft statue: 'Mother of feminism' sculpture provokes backlash
The Mary Wollstonecraft memorial draws criticism due to its inclusion of a naked female figure.
www.bbc.com
Interestingly a very respectful (and fully clothed) statue was proposed by a male sculptor, but the committee went for this one by a woman artist
this was the rejected proposal
malins
Stumbling Seeker
Hmmm.New statue commemorating Mary Wollstonecraft "erected" in London, provoking controversy
View attachment 925654View attachment 925658Mary Wollstonecraft statue: 'Mother of feminism' sculpture provokes backlash
The Mary Wollstonecraft memorial draws criticism due to its inclusion of a naked female figure.www.bbc.com
Interestingly a very respectful (and fully clothed) statue was proposed by a male sculptor, but the committee went for this one by a woman artist
this was the rejected proposal
View attachment 925667
Okay. The artist says it's not a statue "of" but "for" Mary Wollstonecraft.
not quite convinced, why not have a statue that commemorates an actual individual with actual ideas and accomplishments,
in the same way a (often but not always male) writer, philosopher, composer etc can get their statue.
One that, even if it's a somewhat stereotyped and idealized representation, ... reminds that there was an actual living person.
This sculpture encourages a visual conversation with the obstacles Ms Wollstonecraft overcame,
the ideals she strived for, and what she made happen.
... Clothes define people and restrict people, they restrict people's reaction. She's naked and she's every woman.
The problem in my opinion is that this becomes just an allegorical figure,like one more of all those nymphs, fountain goddesses, run of the mill mythological figures
... whatever you find as decorative statuary in classical gardens.
And in fact, those are very often naked or nearly so while statues commemorating historical people for intellectual and cultural accomplishments not so much.
And finally, the way it actually looks, in its setting, as opposed to a close up ...
... basically a blob of metal with something on top that looks like a bad-taste hood ornament on a car ...
... so it reduces what it wants to commemorate to essentially decorative statuary, and is kinda tacky at that.
In terms of encouraging a conversation ... the depiction of a real historical woman among lots of real historical men is in my opinion more likely to get someone interested in who that was and what they stood for, than an allegorical nude figurine.
Aesthetically it's a fail,
View attachment 925654
because well yes, that is an attempt at a direct figurative representation, (it's not 'abstract' or 'transcending' or anything)
but well, there's no expressiveness at all through the pose of the figure, and what kind of face is that?
Oh sure yeah she's supposed to be 'every woman' so that means expressionless, robot faced, reduced to an identity defined by primary sexual characteristics? ...hmmm what was this about again?
So, 1/5 stars for good intentions, do not recommend. But I won't be agitating for a mob to tear the statue down
Darkprincess69
High Priestess of Slaanesh
Well personally, I feel that the naked female form is never in bad taste. For centuries, women have been forced to cover themselves up (in some less-developed cultures they still are) and as a symbol of female emancipation, I find nudity to be an extremely powerful statement.
Just my opinion, of course
If I had to criticise the statue for anything, I would say that it's way too small - powerful symbols need to make powerful statements and this statue is a bit too "lower-case" to make much of an impact
malins
Stumbling Seeker
Agree on the too small
My point isn't that nudity is bad ...
but that for one thing as nudes go, this is very robotic and expressionless ...
and it's not clear that a kind of default nude looking pretty much like a default human figure model in a 3D program represents anything.
From my viewpoint, whether nudity is a symbol of emancipation or the exact opposite, depends very much on context...
My point isn't that nudity is bad ...
but that for one thing as nudes go, this is very robotic and expressionless ...
and it's not clear that a kind of default nude looking pretty much like a default human figure model in a 3D program represents anything.
From my viewpoint, whether nudity is a symbol of emancipation or the exact opposite, depends very much on context...
Loxuru
Graf von Kreuzigung
I agree with this observation : it has the robotic aspect that often marks 3D drawings too.
Besides, it does not fit the location it stands in. It would better fit (and even been perceived less robotic) in a built and paved urban location.
The rejected proposal, on the other hand was a bit too 'Victorian?' But it would have stood better in the park than this.
malins
Stumbling Seeker
An argument that could be made for this more traditional approach is,
that it (retroactively) injects the figure of Wollstonecraft into the way the established language of public art is used to communicate accomplishments and values from past generations.
The traditional statuary can be "read" by the public in the same way any other statue of an 18th century intellectual would be.
The point being, that a lot of ideas that were radically and revolutionarily 'feminist' back in Wollstonecraft's days are now just a part of our accepted social reality (and thus, part of the 'present tradition'), but it's legitimate to observe that she (and others) haven't gotten the kind of recognition like other public intellectual figures of the age.
The statue is supposed to remind how the things that are now part of the present tradition came into being - reminding us that these were once new things and ideas. Just like statues of composers, artists, philosophers etc. remind us that the music, artwork & patterns of thought that are today canonical, are not something that has just always existed, or somehow amorphously came into being, but was created, sometimes against resistance or ignorance.
An interesting thought (and for those of us with children of a certain age, an everyday experience
)-- how does a reasonably curious child of elementary school age react to these statues. My experience is that when statues are individualized and accessible they usually do want to find out what it's about. Random water nymphs or equestrian commanders removed way up high not so much.
The "traditional" proposal is actually quite readable for a child's eyes.
Hmm, they call her a 'radical'... terms may have changed over time, I guess.New statue commemorating Mary Wollstonecraft "erected" in London, provoking controversy
View attachment 925654View attachment 925658Mary Wollstonecraft statue: 'Mother of feminism' sculpture provokes backlash
The Mary Wollstonecraft memorial draws criticism due to its inclusion of a naked female figure.www.bbc.com
Interestingly a very respectful (and fully clothed) statue was proposed by a male sculptor, but the committee went for this one by a woman artist
this was the rejected proposal
View attachment 925667
Darkprincess69
High Priestess of Slaanesh
I'm pretty sure that she would be apalled at today's generation of so-called "feminists", who mostly just come across as shrieking harpies raging against the world. They don't seem to represent normal womens' interests that's for sure, and they sure as hell don't speak for me - I'm more than capable of speaking for myself - I don't need a bunch of angry, purple-haired cat-ladies on twatter to be offended on my behalf!
I'm not keen on statues. Most of them are simply street clutter, passers by not noticing or having a clue who they're commemorating. Some are worth keeping for genuine historical importance and/or artistic merit, but I'd never subscribe to putting up yet more. And I'm perfectly sure Mary Wollstonecraft would have been appalled at the idea. There are much better ways to remember and celebrate her - like reading her writings, and thinking about and acting upon what they still have to say to us today.
twonines
LIMERICUS
It`s just another example of the ridiculous "modern" trend to attempt to judge historical events and personages by the standards currently in vogue.