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A Philosophical Thread about Good & Evil - Catastrophes, Coincidences & Theodicy

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Son, I’m only going to tell you this once.

The only thing I believe in from faith is the second coming of our LORD Jesus Christ. I have no beliefs about science. Only Laws and Theories. Since this is a philosophy thread I will tell you a little about epistemology. The study of knowledge, and what it means to know things. I dont believe things, I know things. Do not compare your miseducated misinformed misanthropic belief to my true and justified knowledge. We do not have opinions that are the same, do not equivocate our different levels of understanding as differences of opinion. There is a real physical world that we inhabit, that is called realism. And only one of us is right.

If you don’t believe in a round earth I pray to G-d that you turn off your phone GPS, because that’s a Global Positioning System, and not a DPS.
 
Son, I’m only going to tell you this once.

The only thing I believe in from faith is the second coming of our LORD Jesus Christ. I have no beliefs about science. Only Laws and Theories. Since this is a philosophy thread I will tell you a little about epistemology. The study of knowledge, and what it means to know things. I dont believe things, I know things. Do not compare your miseducated misinformed misanthropic belief to

If you don’t believe in a round earth I pray to G-d that you turn off your phone GPS, because that’s a Global Positioning System, and not a DPS.
I see "philosophy invented GPS"..... well that explains why America didn't went back to the moon, and I guess that will stay so. Let's pray for china...... I have no GPS on my phone and would threw it from the computer if I had time to do it, because me and well also Jesus knows where I am...
 
*microphone static* "This is your captain speaking, I would just like to inform you all that we're turning off all communications with air traffic control and are shutting down our inaccurate GPS equipment." *static* "But rest assured, you're in good hands, because Jesus knows where we're going." *static* "Have a nice flight." *click*
 
*microphone static* "This is your captain speaking, I would just like to inform you all that we're turning off all communications with air traffic control and are shutting down our inaccurate GPS equipment." *static* "But rest assured, you're in good hands, because Jesus knows where we're going." *static* "Have a nice flight." *click*
Also the wings might drop off because the plane was designed using pseudo-engineering and alternative aerodynamics..
 
*microphone static* "This is your captain speaking, I would just like to inform you all that we're turning off all communications with air traffic control and are shutting down our inaccurate GPS equipment." *static* "But rest assured, you're in good hands, because Jesus knows where we're going." *static* "Have a nice flight." *click*
For the record, I think GPS working as accurately as it does validates not just a round earth, but general relativity as well. I think you might have misunderstood me a little. :p I’m telling him he shouldn’t use gps because he doesn’t believe in the things that make it work. Like a globe.
 
For the record, I think GPS working as accurately as it does validates not just a round earth, but general relativity as well. I think you might have misunderstood me a little. :p I’m telling him he shouldn’t use gps because he doesn’t believe in the things that make it work. Like a globe.
Just satire.

A born again flat-earther airline pilot who goes rogue and turns off air traffic control communications while relying on nothing but jesus to prevent airborne collisions would be fucking terrifying if you were a passenger.

Maybe you could argue that someone with such a high degree of scientific illiteracy wouldn't occupy this type of job, but, you never know.
 
No, not a flat earth theory, but it is logical that the earth is somewhat stretched by its rotation at the points that are furthest away from the earth's axis, i.e. the equatorial region by centrifugal force, which is relatively thin in view of the earth's diameter.

You're getting into a 'Very Deep Pile of Illogical Do Do' here.

Aside from the fact that it looks like Earth's poles have switched numerous times over the last 4 billion years, with traces of numerous magnetic poles all over the Earth, which indicates that the planet has rolled on its axis many times ... evening out your 'stretch effect across the globe.

What's 'logical' and what is actually the case often tend to differ wildly. One it was 'logical' that the world was carried on a turtle's back, but now we know this is not the case.

Me? I go with the globular/spherical Earth theory because it is 'logical' that any body with the necessary mass capable of exerting a sizeable gravitic attraction would, over time, take on the characteristics of a sphere.

I also accept the evidence of little numbers like nearby horizons wherever I go, satellite pictures, radar mapped planetary features (of not only Earth but also other planets in our solar system), tectonic shift and a host of physical phenomena (atmosphere, earthquakes, tides and other phenomena) that are consistent with Earth being a sphere.

It's 'logic' like this that makes Twitter, Facebook and social media endless back holes of bad ideas, trolling and religious as well as right and left wing lunacy ... that have so far set human knowledge and advancement back 500 years. Imagine what they could do in another 10 to 15 years. If another 20-30% of earth's population follows these flakes, we may even revert to medieval times.
 
In my experience, amateur sophistry more often than not ends up leading an argument into endless little set defeating circles causing it to disappear up the dark orifice of Confused Irrelevance hopefully never to be seen again. There are great philosophers contemplating great questions, but the vast majority of us shouldn't even waste our time.
 
Seriously?? that’s a flag. It was literally designed by a graphic designer. What, it’s mean to to prove flat Earth? Come on. I wasn’t born yesterday. I’m still 50% sure you’re just pretending..

There you go:
View attachment 946705
taken by Bill Anders on board Apollo 8 in December 1968. Now please show me a photo of the Earth disc’s “edge” as I asked. :rolleyes: If you can’t, I’ll begin to suspect you might have innocently fallen for a rather obvious and transparent fraud.:confused:
Sorry, as I come from the technology sector, I assumed that knowledge of centrifugal forces is general knowledge, which of course is not the case. So here are some wiki posts about these equatorial bulges.
The first in german : https://de.qaz.wiki/wiki/Equatorial_bulge
and in english: http://wiki.gis.com/wiki/index.php/Equatorial_bulge
 
Are any of you familiar with this classic, 'Flatland'?


Yep, I even own a copy :)
flatland.jpg

Me, I can just make pics of nude, crucified males or females.

I think this is safe ground

You can not fly around the earth! You just can fly up to say 10 km or 15km if you manage to get an F-15! then you crawl over something of which you do not know if it is a sphere, a disc, a donut, or whatever. You would have to go up to say 1000km to overlook the whole thing, so you desperately need a space ship, and there comes the crucial point. That space flights were promised me decades ago, and what happened? Well Elon Musk happened. And then, could you organise a flight over Antartica? Just look at www.flightradar24.com

I have flown around the earth, I have experienced the time differences and changes in daylight that come with travel. It matches what you would expect to experience on a spinning globe orbiting a sun.

This thread had covered a lot of ground before I managed to catch up with it. I don't mind challenges to orthodoxy and thinking outside the box, but usually with modern claims in favour of the flat earth (as an example) there is little put forward that has not been explained many times over the centuries. Where is the evidence for it?
 
I have flown around the earth, I have experienced the time differences and changes in daylight that come with travel. It matches what you would expect to experience on a spinning globe orbiting a sun.

This thread had covered a lot of ground before I managed to catch up with it. I don't mind challenges to orthodoxy and thinking outside the box, but usually with modern claims in favour of the flat earth (as an example) there is little put forward that has not been explained many times over the centuries. Where is the evidence for it?
What’s it like living on the underside of the disc @phlebas ? It must be exhausting, constantly clinging on to the ceiling with your fingernails.. ;) :p

But seriously.. yes it’s one thing believing in unfalsifiable propositions, and quite another believing in propositions that have been falsified, and continue to be falsified every second. That takes a special kind of brain.. :doh:
 
Sorry about the cut-and-paste, but I think this is interesting in view of some things discussed here :p


Woo, also called woo-woo, is a term for pseudoscientific explanations that share certain common characteristics, often being too good to be true(aside from being unscientific). The term is common among skeptical writers. Woo is understood specifically as dressing itself in the trappings of science (but not the substance) while involving unscientific concepts, such as anecdotal evidence and sciencey-sounding words.

From: https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Woo
 
So the idea of the flat DVD earth is becoming more and more sympathetic to me. "Captain, we accidentally rammed the outer wall of the earth with our icebreaker. The thing has a hole and the entire ocean is starting to leak. Full power back we are disappearing here, maybe nobody saw us." Or also: "The human rights activists have complained that our types of execution such as crucifixion or hanging were too cruel, so we just throw those condemned to death over the outer wall."
"Irony Off"
 
Or to make the whole thing even more philosophical, according to the film "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy". The answer to the most important questions of the universe, life and everything, is 42.
And the third most intelligent species on earth are humans
The second most intelligent species are dolphins
And the most intelligent breed on planet earth are white mice.

I hope that was philosophical enough now!
 
Yep, I even own a copy
It seems to me one of the most brilliant pieces of scientific - well mathematical/ physical fantasy of all time (with a dash of satire on the 'one dimensional' lives of women thrown in), it deserves to be much better known.
 
The one thing that strikes me about this fascinating - if at times quite weird, even by CF standards - discussion is that the question of 'good/evil' signalled in the title has got lost - or dismissed with unexamined statements about whether, if there is a God, It is (or can be judged as) 'good', and whether having any coherent system of ethical thinking entailing 'good/evil' necessarily requires belief in a God, at least in some sense. I'm not sure that addressing epistemological issues - the validity of scientific methods etc. - helps with those questions.

As it happens, I do believe in 'God' in the sense of a necessary truth independent of the existence of the universe, but I (as I said much earlier) don't conceive of 'God' as a person, or having any human-like properties. And I don't believe in any kind of revelation - all I can know is the universe and myself. The way I (try to) understand the universe is through science - application of a priori reason to empirical evidence. The way I (try to) understand myself, my experience of being human, my fellow humans, is through literature and the arts. I read the Bible - not as reliable history, certainly not as a textbook of geology or biology, but as an anthology of literature - and that's just as important as (dare I say more important than?) the findings of science. For reliable history of Scotland in the 11th century, I don't look to Shakespeare's Macbeth as a reliable guide - but for insight into myself, the heights and depths of human nature, Shakespeare's where I go. And I read the Bible in the same way.

Is it possible to have a coherent moral life without belief in a (law-setting, judgemental) God - and some kind of after life too? I'm sure it is. Aristotle argued for the necessary existence of a 'prime mover', but his ethics didn't depend on that, rather on the concept of the 'good life' in which we should cultivate virtues - prudence, courage, patience, honesty, moderation, etc. Even Aquinas, who certainly did believe in a personal God and an after life, accepted that it was possible for unbelievers to be virtuous.

So, with all respect to you fascinating physicists and others of scientific bent, I greatly value and admire the exciting things you can teach me about the physical universe. Modern physics - which I admit I find mind-blowing - certainly puts our brief moment of consciousness into perspective, natural science - evolution, genetics, etc., which I do understand and find fascinating - puts us humans in our (far from supreme or central) place. But for understanding myself, coming to terms with the complexity of being human, working out how to live the 'good life', it's to the insights of creative writers, philosophers, and - yes - religious teachers that I turn.
 
So, with all respect to you fascinating physicists and others of scientific bent, I greatly value and admire the exciting things you can teach me about the physical universe. Modern physics - which I admit I find mind-blowing - certainly puts our brief moment of consciousness into perspective, natural science - evolution, genetics, etc., which I do understand and find fascinating - puts us humans in our (far from supreme or central) place. But for understanding myself, coming to terms with the complexity of being human, working out how to live the 'good life', it's to the insights of creative writers, philosophers, and - yes - religious teachers that I turn.
absolutely true.

to learn what humans are made of, how we can systematically err due to the structure of our senses and minds, to guess at large scale collective consequences of certain human actions ... turn to science, statistics, mathematics.

To understand what a human should do, what it means to be human, that is not enough ...

... and it's a problematic trend, that morality nowadays is increasingly reduced to 'utilitarian' interpretations based on 'measurables'
(that often boil down to economics, which provocatively said is neither humane, nor scientific....)
 
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