Do you beleive that all fantasies are like this - instinctive desires supressed by society?
Behaviours which were beneficial in the primordial age may be maladaptive in other environments. And certainly there's the possibility of harsh side effects.
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A Question for Straight Guys
- Thread starter willowfall
- Start date
Loxuru
Graf von Kreuzigung
Civilization has shifted the emphasis from ‘fighting’ to ‘caring’. We have attributed more value to a human life. Life used to be cheap. Good life was only for the most assertive and aggressive, as far, at least, if they managed to survive the struggle. They got the best women too. An individual was expendable. We have shifted to an inclusive society, that saves as many lives as possible.
Without that, the death toll of Covid could already have amounted tens of millions today. Without that, we could already have colonized the Moon, but perhaps at the cost of one in three flights from or to getting lost with all hands. A Challenger or Columbia disaster would have been part of daily life, not a world headline. Plane crashes! Nowadays, all efforts are done to retrieve bodies and find the cause. There are however airliner wreckages on mountain tops with the bodies still inside. That was 60 years ago : shit happens, they said about it.
Our care is embedded in an institutional context. We have now the Precautionary Principle. Do not, if it could cause harm. Intended to protect people against unpredictable or concealed side effects. We have a Stand-still principle, intended to avoid damage to our environment.
The intention of saving lives by caring policies is also a survival strategy, it offers more people a good life quality, but, right, it will not bring us to Mars very soon.
Would you say it's a more feminine principle?
Loxuru
Graf von Kreuzigung
To my opinion, it is rooted in the principles of Enlightment : "Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness", or "Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité". It is one interpretation of these principles, it is one of the feminine interpretations ,it is one of the socilaist interpertations, it is even a Christian interpretation,.. but not exclusively feminine, anyway.
willowfall
Senator
All fantasies are desires. Some can be indulged in without societal disapproval. There are those which society disapproves but that disapproval change over time as "morals" change. However in all time periods there are fantasies to which society doesn't approve. A prime example recently is the demise of Tumblr or the moving of chat boards like this away from better known platforms such as Yahoo. Nothing here we do is illegal (in most western countries) but it is frowned upon by society, thus we must stay out of the light.
[QUOTE="KageKamen, post: 539999, member: 30835" which were beneficial in the primordial age may be maladaptive in other environments. And certainly there's the possibility of harsh side effects.[/QUOTE]
I in no way disagree with what you say. But let me give you two examples of 'violence' and 'risk'.
The seizing of a mate by force and carrying her off is unacceptable in a modern society
However I can categorically state that the history of Europe would have been a whole lot LESS violent if the politicians of the 1930s had found the moral courage to take the risk tp oppose Hitler with force no later than 1936 as opposed to waiting to be overrun in 1939-40. I also suspect both the peoples of the Ukraine and the Palestinians would feel a lot less abused if they had possessed the military force (violence) to successfully oppose those who attacked them. In fact any people who lose a war or are conquered in any time period will feel the same way.
Both are violence and risky in different contexts. I think we'd all agree that the former is inappropriate today but the latter (effective application of military force) is a necessary survival skill.
kisses
willowfall
willowfall
Senator
You are delving into unproven assumptions with heavy political implications which are in appropriate for this forum so I will quote someone much more famous and respected than either of us will ever be as my final contribution to this part of the thread.
“There are notions so foolish that only an intellectual will believe them.” - George Orwell
kisses
willowfall
Loxuru
Graf von Kreuzigung
And George Orwell was obviously an intellectual too! Otherwise, he never would have written '1984'. Because that is a dystopian version of the 'caring society' I lined out above. Mass surveillance, monitoring of the individual.
The ultimate caring society goes that far in caring and protecting, by monitoring every single individual. Today, technological means are available for that : smartphones, road pricing devices and car registration number cameras, CCTV with facial recognition, 'smart' apparatuses in your home. The pretext is your protection and restraining your habits, so that you do not harm to others. That is '1984' by other means, right?
Gibbs505
SERVORUM DOMITOR
Thats bloody scary!
Perhaps all your fantasies are desires - I, on the other hand, believe many are "dreams" that the fantasiser has no desire to realise even if circumstances permitted. One can have a fascination with terrible things that pops like a bubble when poked with the needle of reality. (Note that distant enough history does not usually count as reality for this purpose.)
Yes, this is probably the end of my road, so I always have to be careful of it.
[QUOTE="KageKamen, post: 539999, member: 30835" which were beneficial in the primordial age may be maladaptive in other environments. And certainly there's the possibility of harsh side effects.[/QUOTE]
Are you so sure? I recall seeing claims that it was appeasement which allowed, say, Britain to build up it's forces. If they had rushed to engage... well, they would probably have still won, but faster or slower I can't say. Caution is not necessarily the same as fear, just as courage does not line up entirely with recklessness.
Are you so sure? I recall seeing claims that it was appeasement which allowed, say, Britain to build up it's forces. If they had rushed to engage... well, they would probably have still won, but faster or slower I can't say. Caution is not necessarily the same as fear, just as courage does not line up entirely with recklessness.
Dark M
Condemned
To say a woman is not sexually stronger than men is a myth! I had a girlfriend that dreamed of having 5 men at one time, she could never get enough we often had twosomes and threesomes. Her real fantasy was to have 5 men at one time, one in her mouth, one in each hand one in her pussy and one in her ass. In public she was a real lady though!
Gibbs505
SERVORUM DOMITOR
Britain was able to build up on in a very minor extent. The rearmament only got underway in the late thirties and England was even further behind then, then it was in the earlier thirties. The reoccupation of the Rhineland was the turning point, if England and France had reacted strongly when Hitler was not as strong as he became later, there would have been a real chance, and the price, if any would have been small.
willowfall
Senator
And to back this up if Hitler's gambit to occupy the Rhineland had failed he probably would have been swept from power. As it was with the British and French backing down cemented his hold on power and only encouraged him to make other gambits. Hitler used a very minimal number of troops to reoccupy the Rhineland because he knew it was huge gamble.
The vaunted Luftwaffe wasn't and the Panzer forces which overran France barely existed. In fact even in May 1940 the Germans had to deploy the Pzkw I (armed with 2 machine guns and intended only as a training vehicle) and captured Czech tanks to fill out their forces. Even in 1940 the French had more tanks (very badly deployed and used) than the Germans.
Of course there is no absolute way of knowing for sure as the Germans were seething over the Versailles treaty but WWII was very much the product of Hitler and it is hard to see how it might have started without him.
kisses
willowfall
Gibbs505
SERVORUM DOMITOR
I agree Willow, there is no way of knowing for sure. But it really was the last good chance to stop Hitler without a world war.
Loxuru
Graf von Kreuzigung
Right! The Allies and the Germans had each about 3000 tanks in 1940. The Allies deployed them in thousand groups of three, the Germans in three groups of thousand!
Dextradamusz
Spectator
Threesomes.. Well long story short MMF is the wrong ratio in teamplay 
dfg42
Senator
First of all: I do not think there are straight guys or gay guys at all... Naturally there are different tastes, which also change over time in every person
In my opinion there is sex you like to do with your loved one and other sex you like to do in fantasy alone or even in real but not in a relation, but there are males which are into cuckold settings. Me personally I do not only like 2m+f (except bisexual ones, because I do not think someone should put his dick in someones ass if he does not let do it on himself), but 2m+m is funny to.
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Zungur
Governor
This is a very interesting question. SadlyI don't have the time to thoroughly read all the answer, so forgive me if I repeat things that were already said.
First: these pictures work for me and I include such scenes very often into my stories and pictures.
Second: no, I would not really want to take part in such a scene and fantasize very rarely about it (in sharp contrast to 'me plus multipüle girls') if only because just the sight of a naked man turns me down.
Now why is it still very popular?
I think there are many reasons for that. In my opinion one of the most important factors of successfull porn (from the male perspective) is to sell the fiction, that the girls like what is done to them (or, if targeting the sadistic public, the fiction that the girls hate what is done to them). The maybe most exciting part of the fantasy that porn is is: "Look this wonderful creature wants to have sex. She loves to have sex and she would enjoy to have sex even with you."
In short: male porn is a fantasy about what a female feels.
Did you ever notice that basically *all* BDSM and most porn stories from 'Justine, O, 9 1/2 weeks, right to 50 shades, is written from the female perspective, in spite of being written most often by men?
I do the same thing, because I am not in the least interested in what men feel. Instead I depict my own fantasies how girls that fi to my idea of beautiful and nice get blown away by male domination and enjoy the best orgasms ever.
So, showing these gang bangs is selling the fantasy: 'Wow! This girl wants it! This girl enjoys it, no matter what it is! And even you fat, old moron could be one of those guys who make her scream in extasy."
First: these pictures work for me and I include such scenes very often into my stories and pictures.
Second: no, I would not really want to take part in such a scene and fantasize very rarely about it (in sharp contrast to 'me plus multipüle girls') if only because just the sight of a naked man turns me down.
Now why is it still very popular?
I think there are many reasons for that. In my opinion one of the most important factors of successfull porn (from the male perspective) is to sell the fiction, that the girls like what is done to them (or, if targeting the sadistic public, the fiction that the girls hate what is done to them). The maybe most exciting part of the fantasy that porn is is: "Look this wonderful creature wants to have sex. She loves to have sex and she would enjoy to have sex even with you."
In short: male porn is a fantasy about what a female feels.
Did you ever notice that basically *all* BDSM and most porn stories from 'Justine, O, 9 1/2 weeks, right to 50 shades, is written from the female perspective, in spite of being written most often by men?
I do the same thing, because I am not in the least interested in what men feel. Instead I depict my own fantasies how girls that fi to my idea of beautiful and nice get blown away by male domination and enjoy the best orgasms ever.
So, showing these gang bangs is selling the fantasy: 'Wow! This girl wants it! This girl enjoys it, no matter what it is! And even you fat, old moron could be one of those guys who make her scream in extasy."
dfg42
Senator
I think, I agree with most of it and it is clear that most porn watcher clearly sees that it is fantasy. I would add more stories from females perspectives, such as Emmanuelle Arsan's work or the Josefine Mutzenbacher. So it might be good to write from males perspective also, I try to, but probably that is not successful. I also read, that although many males look at DP's or DAP's some actors do not do it because they do not like when their penis is close to other males penis. The must funny, or sad actor in this perspective is in my view Michael Vegas, who get's fisted and pegged in horrible ways by females but says he has problems with sex with males, who after all do generally only parts of what females do. I mean that is also an interesting aspect, that many males don't like to get penetrated. As I told before, I knew a girl whose boyfriend left her after she tried to put a dildo in his asshole, I should of asked her if he could do that to her, to get the complete picture.
geolier
Tribune
mocking and jeering females wouldn't be bad either.-
Which reminds me that a naked, crucified female surrounded by mocking, jeering males is possibly my favorite crux scenario.
