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Alice Kiss - Crux Legend
- Thread starter bobinder
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Damian
Governor
A lovely girl and great crux model that I always found one of the best, she not only looked the part, she acted it with the suitable expressions and positions, I will certainly be working on more using her and some new material is to be expected. Some great use of her by other manipulators I see, great work creating the thread Bob, I will certainly contribute in the future. Here are a couple of older ones.
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She is so sexy and beautiful on the cross.
bobinder
ARTISAN
Thank you for these additions, Damian. They both make direct references to the Cruxdreams shoot by including both Alice and Koshka together in the same picture. The only Makar picture which contained both of the girls together is, 'Contemplation of Crucifixion', shown earlier in the thread, in which the clothed Alice observes the crucified Koshka, presumably deciding how she will conduct her own impending crucifixion. I sometimes wonder how Alice might have performed without the element of competition provided by Koshka. It was a shrewd strategy by Makar to employ two models alternating on the cross.
Your first group of three girls also shows Makar's Lena on centre stage. I really like the way you have shown the crosses at slightly different angles, the patibula being twisted out of alignment by the writhing occupants, the movement of the woodwork reflecting the girls' torment. The contrast between the casual curiosity of the fully clothed onlookers and the dynamic agony of the naked crucified girls is fully exploited here - as viewers, which group do we identify with? The sentry is indifferent to the girls' suffering but he challenges us with a direct look, telling us to keep our distance.
Yet again you have created very expressive images in both examples, and I recognise the background of the second one from your other pictures. Alice continues to inspire us and I look forward to seeing your new work. Thanks for your contribution to this genre.
bobinder
ARTISAN
I understand what you are saying, Alex. Russia has produced many beautiful models - I have used several of them in my artwork and I am indebted to them. The question of the exploitation of such young women by the porn industry is a difficult one. Alice often looks unhappy in her photo shoots and this is also true of other models. Whatever their motivation, I feel it is important to respect the models, and this is easily overlooked if we consider that they have compromised their self-respect.You'll be surprised... Maybe... Or maybe not...
But i'm ashamed of our young women
Whilst we celebrate female beauty by creating fantasy art, some of our inspiration derives from real people, and we might easily be accused of promoting the sexual exploition and abuse of women. We both know how impossibly difficult it is to respond to that in positive terms. As artists, we recognise the difference between fantasy and reality, but that distinction is often blurred for the porn stars we admire. I try to empathise with them. They perform for our pleasure and ultimately I hope they find fulfilment in their own lives.
Makar published several 'behind the scenes' pictures of his models, which are revealing both about the distress they experienced and his honesty in acknowledging the dilemmas and torments suffered by real people. But the issue you raise is world-wide and not confined to Russia. Thank you for highlighting its importance.
bobinder
ARTISAN
Thanks Emily. Alice has become such a significant part of our crux culture, I felt that her birthday in the tenth anniversary year of her Cruxdreams shoot was a good opportunity for a celebratory thread. She continues to capture our collective imagination and whilst there is a lot of material from her modelling career, very little is known about her beyond this. Whilst this may seem frustrating for her fans, it preserves a degree of private life for her, which is both important and fortunate. I am confident that we shall continue to enjoy her exploits in fantasy scenarios indefinitely. Here's to the next ten years!
kiuls
Spectator
If this is how you feel - why are you even in here .. ????
AlexArts
Soul of Cinder
I'm already going out...
bobinder
ARTISAN
Since Alice is well known in a particular field, this constitutes legendary status. She enjoys continual fame for being crucified - that would be the definition of a crux legend. Some legends are fantasies, and Alice is an intrinsic part of our crux fantasies. I think it takes a certain amount of courage to strip naked and submit to being crucified and filmed for the world to see and such courage is likely to earn my respect and admiration.
Many artists have employed prostitutes in the past because they were willing to pose nude, and many beautiful pictures were created. However, whilst not mutually exclusive, nude modelling and prostitution are not the same thing. A person's career choice does not necessarily imply bad character but society can sometimes be a harsh judge.
bobinder
ARTISAN
Thanks Repertor, there are still plenty of pictures to come but the research has been highly enjoyable.
Well written Bob!
Gibbs505
SERVORUM DOMITOR
I agree and I hope that, in some way, she knows that most of us like and respect her.
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bobinder
ARTISAN
Thanks Gibbs, that's a nice thought.
Maybe she visits us occasionally and smiles to herself.
She might well have moved on in life. I hope she's happy and doing fine.
Gibbs505
SERVORUM DOMITOR
Indeed she may. I just hope that she is happy with herself and has at least some measure of peace. That is all we can ask for ourselves.
Well, happy birthday Alice! 
This picture, the classic Alice,
is so much part of the Crux world that one might be in danger of becoming immune to the incredible beauty of that girl on that cross.
Then, just at the moment when you might begin to think you've seen enough of Alice on her cross, along comes
and it all goes to prove that the various geniuses that keep us Crux-muggles smiling still have much mileage in the lovely Alice.
So, thank you Bob, and here's to all of you who have worked with Alice, and all of you who will work with Alice over the next ten years!!
This picture, the classic Alice,
is so much part of the Crux world that one might be in danger of becoming immune to the incredible beauty of that girl on that cross.
Then, just at the moment when you might begin to think you've seen enough of Alice on her cross, along comes
and it all goes to prove that the various geniuses that keep us Crux-muggles smiling still have much mileage in the lovely Alice.
So, thank you Bob, and here's to all of you who have worked with Alice, and all of you who will work with Alice over the next ten years!!
bobinder
ARTISAN
Thanks Wragg, very kind of you. Here is some more of the prolific saintjohny with others for comparison.Well, happy birthday Alice!
So, thank you Bob, and here's to all of you who have worked with Alice, and all of you who will work with Alice over the next ten years!!
Alice's appearances in the work of saintjohny present us with the repetition of a familiar motif in a variety of settings and a diversity of landscapes. She becomes as reliable a performer for the manipulation artist as she was for the film crew ten years ago. This exhausted pose (#1) with the body weight taken by fully extended arms and stretched shoulders, recurs in 'The Runaway Slave' (#2.) Captured and exposed, knees bent and legs splayed, Alice hangs in a barren desert landscape over which storm clouds are radiating from the mountainous horizon. Saintjohny exploits the contrast between the naked crucified slave and her comfortably dressed mistress in this ominous scene of confrontation. We can only speculate about the possible outcomes.
The same pose is used in, 'What Left After Raiding' (#3) which is set in a verdant, hilly landscape. The armoured figure suggests the Norman period for this scene. Alice represents a casualty of war, crucified on the bridge over a stream whilst her home burns in the background. Again, saintjohny leaves us to ponder how the event depicted has come about, and what the outcome will be. Similarly, 'The Last War' (#4) presents us with another aftermath of conflict, this time in a snow-covered mountainous landscape, strewn with the bodies of dead soldiers. We view the scene through the eyes of one of the victorious creatures engaged in crucifying the women. Orchid Studios' Katrina is the main subject, being directed to her ornately carved cross. Alice hangs in the middle distance, in the same pose as the previous picture. Makar's Sveta is highlighted on the left and Falco's crux girl hangs on the right. The same Alice pose is also employed by Schroedinger in the modern setting of 'Islamic Justice' (#5.)
Three more saintjohny pictures present Alice in identical poses. 'Last Order' (#6) shows her crucified with Sveta (in the same pose as #4) in a wintry forest scene. We are left to speculate if the last order refers to the Crusader Knight applying his torch to the logs beneath the crosses. 'Crucified Ghosts Forest' (#7) has Alice crucified with Sveta again (twice in different poses.) Here saintjohny has placed the figures cleverly to make sense of the autumnal sunlight filtering through the trees. In another scene change, he presents Alice crucified in a ruined stone building in 'Fallen British Princess' (#8.)
Saintjohny's 'Road' (#9) is repeated here to provide the comparison, referred to previously, with the Markus drawing which inspired it, 'After the Riots - Sabrina' (#10.) The drawing was a gift to Le Chat, which accounts for the cat pawing Sabrina's hair as an additional torment. I think it is one of Markus' most attractive works.
It is a tricky line to walk, sometimes. Very simple with girls/women who do not go in for nude modelling or adult film - they maintain their privacy and play into the notion in society that "nice girls" don't show themselves in public, even for art. "Artistic" models, some of whom I have known in my time, who model for art classes, or for professional photographers or painters, always have to explain themselves - "why would you do that?" - to well meaning people who still equate nudity with poor character.
I think it would be hypocritical to disparage the character of a woman who poses nude, when I take such pleasure and inspiration from the portrayal of the nude female (and more rarely male) form in art, including fantasy or erotic artwork. I note also that a man posing nude is subject to far less censure or criticism than a woman doing the same thing. If one gets joy or happiness from someone else, be it from a real life relationship or through interaction with photographs or videos, it ill behooves that person to call the person giving that happiness a "slut". It's ungrateful and bad manners, at the very least.
In this context, I cannot judge the character of Alice, or anyone who has appeared in photographs or manips here or on any other site. I can not admire Alice's artwork, on the one hand, and call her names on the other. I do not know her, and choose instead to think the best of her. I would hope she is not exploited - what we know seems to suggest that she works in good relations with photographers she has trusted and seems to like. She does not seem to be forced to do things. For that I am also happy. And I don't blame her for not posting her real name or seeking additional publicity - clearly there are many judgemental people who might hurt her future career, potentially in an academic or therapeutic field. Why she should be a less effective psychologist or music therapist, or even a musician, because of her nude modelling is beyond me. However, we have all likely seen stories of people who were fired from their jobs decades after some "do gooder" revealed that 20 years ago the person posed for nude photographs.
So Happy Birthday, Alice! I am grateful for the pictures that have inspired so much imagination and art, both written and visual. Wherever she is now, and whatever she's doing, I am glad she felt comfortable enough to share so much of herself, both physical and (apparently) emotional with the rest of us. Some part of us is better for it, and certainly happier. I wish her all the very best. Perhaps she will grace us with her photographic presence again sometime.
Thanks, Bob, for these images and your excellent "article" (if I may call it that).
bobinder
ARTISAN
Thank you Jolly, and thanks for your pictures which I have used in this thread.So Happy Birthday, Alice! I am grateful for the pictures that have inspired so much imagination and art, both written and visual. Wherever she is now, and whatever she's doing, I am glad she felt comfortable enough to share so much of herself, both physical and (apparently) emotional with the rest of us. Some part of us is better for it, and certainly happier. I wish her all the very best. Perhaps she will grace us with her photographic presence again sometime.
Thanks, Bob, for these images and your excellent "article" (if I may call it that).
If you have any more, please feel free to post them here.