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Bartnel's Art

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Deleted member 16320

Guest
You are joking Darken :p ( or you mock me and I don't like that :mad: )

Big things have big prices but a lot of little things have affordable prices ... the problem is : some want to purchase a Ferrari for the price of .... a bicycle ? :D ... except if you think that 10€, 15€ or 20€ are so expensive that you will have to work as a slave to purchase one of them ;)
( I found 5 of them -animations- at those incredibly high prices in 1 of my docs ... and even one free on demand :popcorn: ) :D :D :D

So, for those who really don't want to spend a single buck, there are so many images and gifs here that they can be satisfied for free, don't you think so ?
ha ha 20 euro? and what is this?

This is a compilation of 6 crux animations done to test new features like dynamic long and short hairs. Including 2 outdoor scenes, 1 scene with 3 crucified girls & 1 x-Crux scene Music HD 1024x576 – 3'20" : 240€ / 280$ Short extracts published as animated gifs

I don't want to offend you friend, but kindly explain it to me ...rather you should write from $ 20 to $ 600.

I like to look at good bdsm porn, art etc, but to pay exorbitant prices it really does not, and I tell you frankly friend!
I do not condemn anyone, the one who has the money, he spends, I prefer to go to the cinema.
thanks for the reply.
 

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thehangingtree

Proconsul
Staff member
ha ha 20 euro? and what is this?

This is a compilation of 6 crux animations done to test new features like dynamic long and short hairs. Including 2 outdoor scenes, 1 scene with 3 crucified girls & 1 x-Crux scene Music HD 1024x576 – 3'20" : 240€ / 280$ Short extracts published as animated gifs

I don't want to offend you friend, but kindly explain it to me ...rather you should write from $ 20 to $ 600.

I like to look at good bdsm porn, art etc, but to pay exorbitant prices it really does not, and I tell you frankly friend!
I do not condemn anyone, the one who has the money, he spends, I prefer to go to the cinema.
thanks for the reply.
Knock it off. Either spend the money or don't but stop cluttering the thread...
 

Apostate

Administrator
Staff member
I agree that total nudity is more arousing, but I always thought that, if it is the same from beginning to the end, it looses its effect quite fast (for example, a beautiful nude girl appears a lot more naked in a crowd of clothed people than in a crowd of naked people and it's the same in a temporal timeline : if she is naked from beginning to end, we hardly notice she is naked at the end).
So, I think it could be interesting to have her wearing something (even torn) at the beginning, like here :

View attachment 711863
then undressed (only a little loincloth left) to be whipped, and finally completely naked to be nailed on the cross ?

Yeah Bartnel. What you said. ;)
 

Bartnel

Governor
This is a compilation of 6 crux animations done to test new features like dynamic long and short hairs. Including 2 outdoor scenes, 1 scene with 3 crucified girls & 1 x-Crux scene Music HD 1024x576 – 3'20" : 240€ / 280$ Short extracts published as animated gifs

I don't want to offend you friend, but kindly explain it to me ...rather you should write from $ 20 to $ 600.

YES YOU DID !!! You don't have any idea of the amount of work (and time) required to do the stuff !
I'm pretty sure ... no, I KNOW you won't spend a single buck to encourage my work but some other people do it for sure !

( you still have the Short extracts published as animated gifs ... even if it's not enough for you! )

And thanks to everyone here who encourage me EVEN without spending a single buck :bdsm-heart:
 

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Bartnel

Governor
To receive my complete documentation, please just contact me in private :)
Anyway, as somebody ( kindly :smilie-devil: ) uploaded some docs in my other topic, here they are ( first one are actually affordable works ) but updated with 2019 prices ;)


I also re-opened my gallery at RENDEROTICA (mainly non-crux stuff):
https://www.renderotica.com/artists/Bartnel/Gallery.aspx
 

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bleumune

Executioner
There is NO ONE who can produce what Bartnel does, and it's totally worth what he charges. The people who complain have no idea how many hours he must spend to get the results he does, and I have no issue whatever with his prices. I say this as someone who can't afford the purchase, but that's because my family comes first, not because of the $$. I'm grateful that he shares what he does. All of us should be.

And, as someone who has done some 3D work, it is unbelievable that he's done so much with the older figures, especially in animation. Here's a tip of the hat to you, Bartnel. :Laie_22mini:
 
D

Deleted member 16320

Guest
YES YOU DID !!! You don't have any idea of the amount of work (and time) required to do the stuff !
I'm pretty sure ... no, I KNOW you won't spend a single buck to encourage my work but some other people do it for sure !

( you still have the Short extracts published as animated gifs ... even if it's not enough for you! )

And thanks to everyone here who encourage me EVEN without spending a single buck :bdsm-heart:
:goodjob:
 

Eulalia

Poet Laureate
Staff member
Thanks a lot bleumune (and others) :)
It's ok, let's talk about something else, please ?

Another one about undressing before nailing:

View attachment 713731
( I previously disgarded this one... but why not after all ? )
I love that, again the close-up makes me feel so much 'in' the scene,
I can feel the familiar sweep of the light cloth brushing my breasts
as the shirt's tugged up off me - my close eye-contact with my Executioner,
his almost loving look as he prepares his prey, his companion's breath on my neck,
the stirring in his pants against my bare buttocks, delcious cruel intimacy!
 

Frankerl

Condemned
My dear Batnel,

I'm a huge fan of your work. And I see this apparent disagreement about the prices worries you. Let me tell you something, I'm a professional musician and I can understand how much time you have put into your work as I often can work for months on a 25 min piece of music so I know how much time and dedication goes into a piece of art.

But, for example, if I made a CD with let's say 45 minutes of music and calculated my time investment, my own education, experience, instrument cost, studio, paying the musicians etc. It would come out with a very big ammount of money, let's say 5000 euro just for saying a number (not unrealistic number at all) and lets imagine you love my music and you are a big fan. Would you pay 5000 euro for every CD? I don't think so, because I have an infinite ammount of copies I could sell. And once the work is done, it's done and I can sell it many times over.

I'm sure many of the people on this thread would love to buy your work and support you, myself included, and if you lowered your prices you could get more people actually buying your content and in the end you would profit more than with the prices you actually have.

I hope sincerly you don't take this opinion as an offense,
Greetings!
 

thehangingtree

Proconsul
Staff member
My dear Batnel,

I'm a huge fan of your work. And I see this apparent disagreement about the prices worries you. Let me tell you something, I'm a professional musician and I can understand how much time you have put into your work as I often can work for months on a 25 min piece of music so I know how much time and dedication goes into a piece of art.

But, for example, if I made a CD with let's say 45 minutes of music and calculated my time investment, my own education, experience, instrument cost, studio, paying the musicians etc. It would come out with a very big ammount of money, let's say 5000 euro just for saying a number (not unrealistic number at all) and lets imagine you love my music and you are a big fan. Would you pay 5000 euro for every CD? I don't think so, because I have an infinite ammount of copies I could sell. And once the work is done, it's done and I can sell it many times over.

I'm sure many of the people on this thread would love to buy your work and support you, myself included, and if you lowered your prices you could get more people actually buying your content and in the end you would profit more than with the prices you actually have.

I hope sincerly you don't take this opinion as an offense,
Greetings!
Bartnel generously share samples of his fine work here and can charge what he wishes for his pay-work. Let's not make a marketing issue on his thread.
 

graphicsguy

Onlooker
It surprises me to no end that when people express a market-based opinion in a thread that serves to market a product, they are advised not to express said opinion. Is this thread an advertisement for Bartnel's works, or is it not? If the former, then those to whom he advertises have every right to express their opinion regarding the asking price. If the latter, why are there prices involved?

Frankerl's analysis is spot-on, and I'm rather disappointed to see the staff attempting to brush perfectly valid criticisms (not to mention factually correct economic analyses) under the rug. The free aspect of Bartnel's work is highly appreciated, yes -- easily among my favorites -- but once money is involved, the matter ceases to involve exclusively the appreciation of the art and artist, and takes on additional hues. I've purchased from him before, after getting what must have seemed bargain-basement discounts relative to the asking prices, and still wound up paying a tidy sum. I'd purchase again if the prices were not so disagreeable, and I'm sure I'm not the only relatively silent reader of these boards who'd do the same (to say nothing of the more vocal participants).

If you want to support the artist, I suggest you encourage him to make his product available at a price that maximizes income, and when there are people standing about saying "I'd buy if only your price wasn't so steep", perhaps the correct response isn't to write them off, but rather to seek to court their wallets same as any other.
 

Bartnel

Governor
Okay, I would have appreciated to change the subject... anyway, it seems I have to explain and justify ... so sad :(.

First, this thread is NOT made for advertisement, but for sharing.
Advertisement thread is here : http://www.cruxforums.com/xf/threads/bartnels-art.7210/ (thanks to admins ;) )
This is a forum, so everyone is free to write, that's true.

Second (I'll try to be short), it seems that some people don't want to consider what I write, or even not to read it?

The work I do require a lot of time, specially with animation (already said).
A part of my work (little stuff) are sold at a little price (already said).

If I want to sell it, 2 ways are in front of me :

-Market-based : to sell at low price, I need to find a distributor (like Renderotica) which will take half of the money to perform administrative tasks and will impose its methods of distribution (formatting of the content, possible forced discounts, etc... ). I shall loose creation freedom, have to do faster work to earn little money, and finally find my work stolen on pirate sites :mad:
Some time ago, I tried this way and it was a total failure. Why? probably because my work doesn't easily enter in "formatted categories" (is there even such a category for animations?) and finally, a LOT less purchases than promised are performed, maybe because the crux lovers ready to purchase are finally not so many, after all. As they purchase at low price, customers will become demanding and jaded and put the artist under pressure (some of them I know talked to me about that ;) )
Sorry to say: for me, this is a vicious circle I don't want to enter in (because I already know where I will go, I'm a professional illustrator since many years, believe me)

-Artist way : I sell at a high price because there is so much work and I think I have some ability. I know only a few will purchase my full work but I shall be paid for what I do, they also know they purchase a high value (maybe unique) work, and, believe me, most of them ask for more! Finally, I actually feel rewarded and proud of my work : so, I want to do VERY good one. I have personal exchanges with my customers using e-mail, and I'm happy with that.


I really took some time to think about these subjects, and I finally chose the way I wanted to take:
I DEFINITELY DON'T WANT TO BE A MERCHANT SELLING INDUSTRIAL PRODUCT, simply because it IS NOT what I am.

Finally, if MY way is causing so much frustration, should I consider stop sharing samples?
This is not an idea I like, believe me!
 
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crumera

Crucifier of Pixels
First of all, I don't have the means to purchase your work, but I like your samples.
I wish I could buy, however that would cut a bit too much in my 3D stuff and general arts funds;)


You have decided to sell premium content of your samples, very good!

It is completely your discretion of pricing, If people think the price is too steep, well it's their problem.
For what its worth, I dont think your pricing is too steep. I totally understand your reasoning.
Your samples are excellent, I expect the larger pics and High resolution Animation to outshine your samples.

For the guys that complain, well Frack 'em. maybe they should take up making Poser/daz studio stuff themselves.
See how much time and even money they have to invest to make a single high quality scene.



First, this thread is NOT made for advertisement, but for sharing.
^^^^^
Fully agree
I cannot see the pricing schedules you posted as advertising, it's just info you shared,
which previously was requested quite a lot I presume.

I hope you continue to share some of your stuff,
I highly appriciate your content, would be very sad if you decide to stop posting.

Well that's it really.
Keep on going Bartnel!:cheer:
 

xenophon

Spectator
LOL.
I've been away from this thread for a few weeks, and finally someone brings up the elephant in the room.

Anyway - here's my 2 cents. Those economic arguments made by others essentially only serve one point - they explain that it is possible to do it differently. So they (convincingly) refute the idea that this way is the only way to properly compensate the artist for his work.

But that argument does not capture the essence of the problem. The essence is exclusion. Bartnel fully and completely excludes that majority of us who can not under any circumstances afford his outsized prices from ever obtaining his work. Bartnel works for the few "whales" he finds here and there, and for those only.

Now this model is not new. Most medieval and renaissance artists worked this way. They found a prince or a rich merchant who would sponsor their art, and then work for him. But this is also where the comparison ends. The Goyas and Rubens and Michelangelos of their time worked for the super rich and powerful - but those would then proudly present their new acquired art to friends, and guests, and family, and at some point, to the public. Bartnel, on the other hand, in the throes of modern copyright, strictly forbids his whales from ever sharing his art. So while Goya worked, ultimately, for all, Bartnel's exclusion stands forever.

And that is what infuriates people when they get his list. That sinking feeling that, well, despite of them politely asking and being nice, this is not meant for them. At all. Even though he could. They are not on his radar - that radar is tuned for the few whales who are around here and there, and the normal guy inquiring is just noise.

So don't get confused in those economic debates. They serve a purpose, but they are ultimately secondary. The true issue is exclusion, and that is intentional and that won't go away.
 

thehangingtree

Proconsul
Staff member
LOL.
I've been away from this thread for a few weeks, and finally someone brings up the elephant in the room.

Anyway - here's my 2 cents. Those economic arguments made by others essentially only serve one point - they explain that it is possible to do it differently. So they (convincingly) refute the idea that this way is the only way to properly compensate the artist for his work.

But that argument does not capture the essence of the problem. The essence is exclusion. Bartnel fully and completely excludes that majority of us who can not under any circumstances afford his outsized prices from ever obtaining his work. Bartnel works for the few "whales" he finds here and there, and for those only.

Now this model is not new. Most medieval and renaissance artists worked this way. They found a prince or a rich merchant who would sponsor their art, and then work for him. But this is also where the comparison ends. The Goyas and Rubens and Michelangelos of their time worked for the super rich and powerful - but those would then proudly present their new acquired art to friends, and guests, and family, and at some point, to the public. Bartnel, on the other hand, in the throes of modern copyright, strictly forbids his whales from ever sharing his art. So while Goya worked, ultimately, for all, Bartnel's exclusion stands forever.

And that is what infuriates people when they get his list. That sinking feeling that, well, despite of them politely asking and being nice, this is not meant for them. At all. Even though he could. They are not on his radar - that radar is tuned for the few whales who are around here and there, and the normal guy inquiring is just noise.

So don't get confused in those economic debates. They serve a purpose, but they are ultimately secondary. The true issue is exclusion, and that is intentional and that won't go away.
I have no idea what he has spent and he has not advertised prices here. If you cannot afford, don't buy. That is a free market. I will remove futher complaints as I see them.

Tree

Moderator
 

tan2000

Spectator
Agreed, starts now, let's make this thread back to purely enjoyable sharing artworks of Bartnel like it used to. No more commercial especially prices discussion further.
 
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