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Bartnel's Art

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Bartnel

Governor
Thank you for that :cool:

Anyway, what I can read here from people who don't even care about all the work I share freely here, is just cold on my back !
For many, it seems like I'm nomore welcome here, and, to tell the truth, it makes me want NOT to come here and share my work.

I guess that was the goal and I need to take some time to think about it, really ... :(
 

phlebas

PRIMUS POENUS
Staff member
It would be a tragedy if you stopped posting and participating here, Bartnel, your work is always appreciated and even the very few critics are opposing your price structure not your art or posts here. The vast majority are very enthusiastic and thankful for the pieces that you share with us.
 
LOL.

So don't get confused in those economic debates. They serve a purpose, but they are ultimately secondary. The true issue is exclusion, and that is intentional and that won't go away.

And exclusion is both completely legal, morally sound and ethically justified. Bartnell is not required to work for anyone, the right to refuse labour is a core human right.

Further you are complaining about Bartnell exercising the right to refuse labour on a thread where there are free examples of the artist's work. Hypocritical self-serving sophistry much?
 

thehangingtree

Proconsul
Staff member
WOW! Sloppy thinking and uninformed statements, even on the part of Staff (TREE). Who would have guessed?

Can we please get back to facts, reality, and the quality which heretofore has defined this forum/website?

Some points, not necessarily in chronological order.

1) Every transaction involving money/barter/trade is fundamentally economic in nature. We see something we want and what’s the first thing we do? Check the price and availability! One way or another the result is a value judgment, an economic opinion, and is something we do every day, unconsciously it is so basic.
Why should these personal opinions or judgments, such as Darken made and publically expressed, and shared by many others, be questioned one way or another?
It’s a personal matter and one way or another should not be met by hostility from others.
If it’s right for you, buy. If not, don’t. DUH!
But WHY HOSTILITY?

2) Darken made a cordial objection to Bartnels prices (with which many people agree), to which Bartnel responded with defensive hostility. I don’t think this was appropriate.
“Frankerl” and “graphicsguy” posted cordial, accurate, and informed posts which were spot on and tried to return the debate to a factual and intellectual, as opposed to emotional, level.
“Xenophon” made excellent points too, but I disagree with him about economics being secondary. Every point he made was also economic and can be found in any economic textbook. It is the model for the great Renaissance artists and their patrons.

I personally thank them for this effort. And I commend them all for their effort, accuracy, and cordiality.

TREE, you responded with terse, dismissive, and I think (AN OPINION!) rude responses.
You ignored and minimized their excellent points.
Shameful for “Staff.” Perhaps someone at the coffee shop should/could educate you regarding basic/fundamental economic principles.

You owe these members, in my opinion, an apology. Also an explanation. (See below.)

3) Bartnel! Where do I begin?!

He started this thread on May 31, 2016. On pg. 5 of this thread, July 4, he first intimated that a sale of his work would be possible and requested a “PM.”
I bit! And for my efforts received not any kind of “personal message,” but a price list.
He wanted $525 for part 1 of Inferno, and $750 for part 2. If you bought both together you received a $110 discount to $1105 for both.
Bartnel, WHY DID YOU NOT HAVE THE HONESTY AND INTEGRITY TO POST THIS ON THE THREAD AT THAT TIME?
WHY DID YOU RESPOND WITH HOSTILITY AND ANGER WHEN DARKEN FINALLY DID THIS ON June 1, 2019?

Darkens expose: http://www.cruxforums.com/xf/threads/bartnels-inferno.5412/page-74

Bartnel's response: http://www.cruxforums.com/xf/threads/bartnels-art.7210/

First to Bartnel, then Tree.

Bartnel, I am privileged to know many artists, including “merchants” who sell “industrial products.” (Your quote.) They do so for reasons of joy, creativity, and PRIDE.
They don’t bitch about how much work it entails. They set fair prices for their creations which I am happy to pay, frequently with a generous overage because I feel they so undervalue their work.

Does this ACCURATELY describe you Bartnel?
Do you “share” like Jedakk, Jastrow, or Hornet? Even Skating Jesus, who publishes much that he simply gives away, as opposed to merely being part of a project for sale.
Compare Skating Jesus’ Renderotica page to Barnel’s.
Bartnel, why the PM BS, why the anger towards those who would publish your prices? Why the THREATS to stop “sharing?”
I DEFEND YOUR RIGHT TO CHARGE WHATEVER YOU WANT FOR YOUR WORK. I ALSO DEFEND MY RIGHT NOT TO PAY THAT AMOUNT.

From another artist’s website:

The Difference Between Selling and Sharing
There’s a difference, you know:
Between manipulating people to buy something and just simply sharing something you’ve created.
https://goinswriter.com/selling-sharing/

Bartnel is a good artist, the best in the crux niche. But compare his work to others, like:

https://studiofow.com/

Kinky, FREE, suburb quality, just not in the crux niche. Compare this to Bartnel’s artistry. It puts the situation, his work, and prices into perspective!

4) To Tree, “Staff,” the Moderator. Why was this thread not transferred, en toto, to the “Links to paysites and other resources” on July 4, 2016?
Why was such a thread not started until January 1, 2019. Happy New Year?!

There is a distinct difference between “sharing” and offering SAMPLES of work for sale. If that fundamental distinction is lost on you, you, and those like you, are not worth my effort.
Apologize PLEASE to the members whose posts and intelligence you have insulted.
And enough of your juvenile, prejudicial threats about censure!
I ask you to TRANSFER THIS THREAD WHERE IT BELONGS.

5) We unfortunately live in a world where up is down, good is evil, and black is white.
I’m sorry, but evolution, climate change, and economics are not a matter of political or social opinion, Republican or Democrat, liberal or conservative, or any other such polarizing categorization.
They are simply facts determinable by the scientific method or neutral, educated empirical observation.

So can we transfer Bartnel’s SAMPLES of what he is SELLING to a thread appropriate for this exchange?

Cheers.
He has never posted prices here on the main board. Anyone bitching will be deleted and may be temporally banned. I haven't noticed you making many contributions or positive comments. Be polite or be gone.
 

willowfall

Senator
We have a two pronged issue here. There are artists\writers who donate their work for free (like me) because I get joy out of writing my fantasies and I don't believe there is a market lucrative enough to justify me jeopardizing my privacy.

Bartnel (and others) are fortunate enough to have developed a commercial market and every right to profit from their endeavors.

The problem here is the internet and the "hanger-ons" who really put forth no effort to produce but expect to consume at no expense to themselves. Or complain that is costs "too much". Then like anything else that costs too much don't buy it.

It is basically theft 'I don't want to pay for music, art, photos etc., etc., etc.' I want it and therefore it should be given to me. Can we try to be adults?

5) We unfortunately live in a world where up is down, good is evil, and black is white.
I’m sorry, but evolution, climate change, and economics are not a matter of political or social opinion, Republican or Democrat, liberal or conservative, or any other such polarizing categorization.
They are simply facts determinable by the scientific method or neutral, educated empirical observation.


And Robin13 you are so dead wrong in this paragraph. Some of what you list (evolution) is factual and observable. Economics is a matter of perspective, there is no "one right system". And as for climate change, it's been happening since before the dinosaurs and I don't remember them having factories and cars but those passionate about it have turned it into a religion not anything resembling science. Get off the intellectual high horse if you yourself are not going to be intellectually honest.

kisses

willowfall
 

Bartnel

Governor
Thank you @willowfall :)

I also began to share freely here years ago... it was some kind of a game for me, and also a challenge!
This one was probably one of the first I did (I used a demo version of VUE Infinite at that time and the "E-onsoftware" sign remains visible in the background) :

V2-cruci-armageddon01.jpg

And people began to ask more ... and more ... taking me more and more time. Some of them wanted to purchase my work and I did my first animation stuff, and it was called "Crux in the dark" : a poor blond girl being crucified in hell by demons ...
so the first picture became a movie (months and a ton of work later), here's the first little part I did first :

inferno-03a.gif
 

xenophon

Spectator
The problem here is the internet and the "hanger-ons" who really put forth no effort to produce but expect to consume at no expense to themselves. Or complain that is costs "too much". Then like anything else that costs too much don't buy it.

I find this offensive. By your allusion, everyone who disagrees is a hanger-on. I, for instance, own every single one of SJ's published works. But I am a hanger-on, because I can not shell out several thousand bucks for a single video?

And as for climate change, it's been happening since before the dinosaurs and I don't remember them having factories and cars but those passionate about it have turned it into a religion not anything resembling science.

LOL. @robn13 - you threw out a hook, and someone bit. I'm afraid, though, the lesson in the context of this board is thou shalt not fish.... :-/
This community is not well suited for a thorough debate on climate change.
 
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thehangingtree

Proconsul
Staff member
I find this offensive. By your allusion, everyone who disagrees is a hanger-on. I, for instance, own every single one of SJ's published works. But I am a hanger-on, because I can not shell out several thousand bucks for a single video?



LOL. @robn13 - you threw out a hook, and someone bit. I'm afraid, though, the lesson in the context of this board is thou shalt not fish.... :-/
This community is not well suited for a thorough debate on climate change.
Does that mean I am forbidden to deal with any criticism of my post?
And - can or can we not discuss merchandise offered here?
Last discussion on this... An artist can charge what they want for their work and the buyer has the right not pay the asking price. As long as pricing is not on the main board there have been no rules broken. He also has not solicited sales of his work.
 

xenophon

Spectator
Last discussion on this... An artist can charge what they want for their work and the buyer has the right not pay the asking price. As long as pricing is not on the main board there have been no rules broken. He also has not solicited sales of his work.

I take this as a.) "you are forbidden" and b.) "we can not" to my questions.
 

willowfall

Senator
I find this offensive. By your allusion, everyone who disagrees is a hanger-on. I, for instance, own every single one of SJ's published works. But I am a hanger-on, because I can not shell out several thousand bucks for a single video?



LOL. @robn13 - you threw out a hook, and someone bit. I'm afraid, though, the lesson in the context of this board is thou shalt not fish.... :-/
This community is not well suited for a thorough debate on climate change.

You can be offended all you want. That is a "you" problem not a "me" problem.

If you are going to extrapolate a wrong meaning to suit your world view then you will be offended often. A miserable way to go thru life.

If you buy nothing then yes you are a "hanger-oner" wake up and look in the mirror. If you buy something you can't afford you are stupid. If you purchase what you can afford you are a consumer. Pretty simple.

And thank you for proving my point about some people turning "climate change" into a religion. I'll debate all you'd like but not on this forum, you are correct in that this is not the forum. But I didn't make a declarative statement Robn13 did. And the fact that you questioned my right to call out his statement proves you are an acolyte and NOT open minded enough engage in an actual debate.

Only those who are afraid to learn (and potentially have to change their minds) are the ones who have to fear fishing.

kisses

willowfall
 

Bartnel

Governor
As it is said above, this forum is NOT a marketplace, just as I DON'T consider my work as a merchandize, but as a piece of art ( just MY CHOICE).

This is exactly the reason why people wanting to know more about my ART have to contact me in private, giving me a valid e-mail, so that whe can continue to exchange...

That's all, it will not change and this is not a subject to discuss or to contest :cool:
 

thehangingtree

Proconsul
Staff member
As it is said above, this forum is NOT a marketplace, just as I DON'T consider my work as a merchandize, but as a piece of art ( just MY CHOICE).

This is exactly the reason why people wanting to know more about my ART have to contact me in private, giving me a valid e-mail, so that whe can continue to exchange...

That's all, it will not change and this is not a subject to discuss or to contest :cool:
Subject is closed!!!

:beer:
 

Bartnel

Governor
I was recently asked where was it possible to find more stuff about Elaine's story



You can find stuff on DEVIANT ART:
https://www.deviantart.com/bartnel/gallery/67739177/Elaine-by-Berseh
This story was written by a famous DA writer Berseh and is very interesting because the story is told from Elaine's point of view. But this story wil NEVER finish with Elaine's crucifixion, because Berseh never includes murder in her stories. The last chapters ( still WIP ) are also very different from previous stories (new characters, new images, new story after chapter 3)
Also published on her own gallery :
https://www.deviantart.com/berseh/gallery/67815561/Elaine-s-quest

****
https://www.deviantart.com/bartnel/gallery/66685195/Elaine-Story
Here are all images and animations I published at Deviant Art before I began the story with Berseh ...

A few renders that were reported as "explicit content" at Deviant Art can be found here:
https://www.renderotica.com/artists/Bartnel/Gallery.aspx

****
I also made a 68 pages pdf e-book with Commander James Bondage as writer that can be purchased (only e-mail contact and PAYPAL payment). More images than Berseh's story but only chapters 1, 2 & 3 and not censored. Title is "The last interview".
This was an experiment to do some "cheap" price work (average market price) and failed to achieve enough sells ( was declined by RENDEROTICA store )

01-Cover.png

****
There's only one version of complete Elaine's story (she dies on the cross at the end): it is a 220 images set with texts but only in french. And I never published this one ... and also never thought of a price ;)
Just an example:

cru04-08.png

****

It is also possible to purchase the movie ( 4 parts - 28mn long but also shorter version ) and very high price.

To receive documentation about stuff to purchase, just send me a valid e-mail :)

VERY IMPORTANT: give me your e-mail ONLY in private message, please
 

Bartnel

Governor
Hello everybody !

I finally tried to provide a good answer to people who were complaining about my too high prices, and I made a few PDF e-books at normal prices.

ArNightsTitle01.png

CatchKillerTitle01.png

LastInterviewTitle01.png

LucyTitle01.png

WyreenTitle01.png

ChosenOneTitle01.png
This last one made with @Eulalia is free to download here

LIST WITH DETAILS HERE
Prices not included please contact me by e-mail to receive it

(currently no crux in those ones but it is planned with "the last interview" sequel)https://sta.sh/020ug9parneu
 
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D

Deleted member 16320

Guest
Hello everybody !

I finally tried to provide a good answer to people who were complaining about my too high prices, and I made a few PDF e-books at normal prices.

View attachment 864712

View attachment 864714

View attachment 864715

View attachment 864716

View attachment 864717

View attachment 864718
This last one made with @Eulalia is free to download here

LIST WITH DETAILS HERE
Prices not included please contact me by e-mail to receive it

(currently no crux in those ones but it is planned with "the last interview" sequel)https://sta.sh/020ug9parneu
I am very interested in the crucifixion of Elaine in the last interview in pdf ... when do you plan to release it?
 

Kav

Governor
I find this offensive. By your allusion, everyone who disagrees is a hanger-on. I, for instance, own every single one of SJ's published works. But I am a hanger-on, because I can not shell out several thousand bucks for a single video?



LOL. @robn13 - you threw out a hook, and someone bit. I'm afraid, though, the lesson in the context of this board is thou shalt not fish.... :-/
This community is not well suited for a thorough debate on climate change.

While we should value output and consider the monitory value in regards to it's production. It is not unreasonable to want to acquire material for free.
 
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