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Behavior on the cross

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Yes, that is correct as far as it goes and all studies confirm this. The body cannot exhale properly, that is the main problem. With the nails, it doesn't matter much where they land if the main load is carried by ropes. But in the studies - and there are few good ones - it is assumed that ropes were also used.
If nails were used, they would not have been driven through the palms but through the lower lying carpals or even wrists. The load on the nails is enormous.
Today we assume that the victims hung on the crosses for a long time until they died.
That was also the reason why their legs were broken in the evening. That was probably less the point of letting the poor people die quickly. No. The main reason seems to have been the robbery of cheap slaves, even if they were only usable for a few weeks. But if the legs are broken, they can't be used, they are left to die.
 
From my real experience, I can say that never I was crucified more than 1/2 hour ...
After, it's becoming a so great pain that it's impossible to find what I'm searching into the crucifixion : the pleasure !
If the pain is becoming too much invading, you cant get this satisfaction that you're searching and it's not useful to continue ...

I could say that the most difficulty that I have is into my arms : though that they're well fixed ( roped of course ) , it demands a strong effort to raise my body and ,by the fact, to breathe ...

But, though that the crucifixion is needing of some efforts, it is worth doing and, believe me, I'm not ready to stop it ...


crucifiée jardin.JPG
 
I could say that the most difficulty that I have is into my arms : though that they're well fixed ( roped of course ) , it demands a strong effort to raise my body and ,by the fact, to breathe ...

But, though that the crucifixion is needing of some efforts, it is worth doing and, believe me, I'm not ready to stop it ...


View attachment 1093199
And, Messa, we will always admire your suffering for our viewing pleasure....:D
messa 038.jpg
 
Yes, that is correct as far as it goes and all studies confirm this. The body cannot exhale properly, that is the main problem. With the nails, it doesn't matter much where they land if the main load is carried by ropes. But in the studies - and there are few good ones - it is assumed that ropes were also used.
If nails were used, they would not have been driven through the palms but through the lower lying carpals or even wrists. The load on the nails is enormous.
Today we assume that the victims hung on the crosses for a long time until they died.
That was also the reason why their legs were broken in the evening. That was probably less the point of letting the poor people die quickly. No. The main reason seems to have been the robbery of cheap slaves, even if they were only usable for a few weeks. But if the legs are broken, they can't be used, they are left to die.
Taking down those crucified during the night to be used as slaves is something I've never heard before, but it makes sense. So have we got it wrong that victims were left up for days - or until they died? However the Gospels seem to suggest the breaking of the legs was to get rid of the criminals before the Passover, something out of the ordinary?

Imagine that taking down the victims for use as slaves would make sense if they were roped up & therefore fairly undamaged. I am still convinced that there were different ways of crucifying from simply being roped up fully dressed in haste - probably the way Alexander crucified the population of Tyre, to the spectacle execution of the basest criminals designed to make a point of the harsh justice system, where those crucified were designed to be a humiliating public spectacle, & this would more than likely be done naked with nails - pretty bloody as well, this was perhaps the way Christ was crucified.
 
I would imagine that the screaming would stop fairly early as being a waste of energy. Having watched some modern videos of crucifixion (using ropes, not nails), there is a lot of writhing to enable breathing.

Using the sedile or cornu were designed to keep the victim alive for longer. As has been mentioned above, crucifixion was not, primarily, a means of execution -- keeping the victim alive for longer gave the option for an appeal and possible release.

However, keeping the victim alive for longer also means that he or she will still be conscious when insects invade their anus, ruptured by the effect of the cornu, or when carrion birds start pecking away at their flesh (although some records show that the eyes are first).
 
I would imagine that the screaming would stop fairly early as being a waste of energy. Having watched some modern videos of crucifixion (using ropes, not nails), there is a lot of writhing to enable breathing.

Using the sedile or cornu were designed to keep the victim alive for longer. As has been mentioned above, crucifixion was not, primarily, a means of execution -- keeping the victim alive for longer gave the option for an appeal and possible release.

However, keeping the victim alive for longer also means that he or she will still be conscious when insects invade their anus, ruptured by the effect of the cornu, or when carrion birds start pecking away at their flesh (although some records show that the eyes are first).
It became interesting, does history know of cases of successful appeal against execution on the cross? If nails were used, how the convict returned to normal life.
 
Hello Phil,
I had also read the version of breaking legs at Christ. Until now I also thought that this would lead to a faster death.
The description that the crucified were stolen from the wood came A) from the Mediterranean and B) from the time before the Romans. Apparently they used all sources to get helpers and if they were only good for a few weeks it seemed to fit.
 
It became interesting, does history know of cases of successful appeal against execution on the cross? If nails were used, how the convict returned to normal life.
There's this story told by Josephus.

Once more, when I was sent by Titus Caesar with Cerealius and a thousand horse to a village called Tekoa, to prospect whether it was a suitable place for an entrenched camp, and on my return saw many prisoners who had been crucified, and recognized three of my acquaintances among them, I was cut to the heart and came and told Titus with tears what I had seen. He gave orders immediately that they should be taken down and receive the most careful treatment. Two of them died in the physicians’ hands; the third survived.
 
Think infection killed a lot of people freed from the nails,
if they survived they probably have the limited use of their hands due to nerve damage.
Feet would be damaged too depending where nail has been hammered in.
I reckon a nail through the ankle bones would be more damaging then through the top of the feet.
 
"Normal life" would be unlikely. Their body would be ruined and life expectancy would be very limited.
Think infection killed a lot of people freed from the nails,
if they survived they probably have the limited use of their hands due to nerve damage.
Feet would be damaged too depending where nail has been hammered in.
I reckon a nail through the ankle bones would be more damaging then through the top of the feet.
True, to my opinion. Today's medicine would reduce the risk of infection, but doctors would not be able to restore damage to nerves and muscles.
 
From my real experience, I can say that never I was crucified more than 1/2 hour ...
After, it's becoming a so great pain that it's impossible to find what I'm searching into the crucifixion : the pleasure !
If the pain is becoming too much invading, you cant get this satisfaction that you're searching and it's not useful to continue ...

I could say that the most difficulty that I have is into my arms : though that they're well fixed ( roped of course ) , it demands a strong effort to raise my body and ,by the fact, to breathe ...

But, though that the crucifixion is needing of some efforts, it is worth doing and, believe me, I'm not ready to stop it ...


View attachment 1093199
I use the staircase before my feet; every 5 minutes I stay 5 seconds, let momentarily stream the blood in my arms, and go back.
In this way I can hang 70 minutes.
I use an inner-tube for a bicycle.
A block of wood under the heels.
Always support from my tooth.

I like to visit my crucifixion-place (in my small study-room) next new year's eve, ~half hour before and ~half hour after 00:00.
Sometimes I used the webcam but unfortunately he can record only a part of my body.

I discovered the delicious tension under the belly-muscles!
I am happy with the prolonging pain after in my back-muscles!.


Life's good! Does sleep well!
 
Hello Phil,
I had also read the version of breaking legs at Christ. Until now I also thought that this would lead to a faster death.
The description that the crucified were stolen from the wood came A) from the Mediterranean and B) from the time before the Romans. Apparently they used all sources to get helpers and if they were only good for a few weeks it seemed to fit.
I think the Josephus story shared by @Marcius is the only documented case of someone being rescued from the ROMAN cross. Although I believe there are anecdotes about wealthy women choosing crucified men as husbands and having them taken down. Again, that's an anecdote about nobody in particular, and little detail is provided. It may or may not be true. If it is true, I doubt it was common.

Either way I think it was probably very rare for anyone who was crucified to be taken down alive. I've certainly never heard of them being taken and used as slaves in a Roman context.
 
I always find it interesting to hear that those who experienced extremely severe wounding, such as being shot or stabbed, that at the time they feel next to nothing, the pain catches up a while later. I this due to the shock together with mental confusion?

If endorphins lessen a particular pain the horror of crucifixion from what I read is that there is a sequence of pains that happen as time goes by - from the first terrible pain of the nails driven through the wrists & the ankle bones (surely if the wrists were secured first that would be bad enough, but the nails there went through flesh between the radius & ulna bones, then the nails through the actual bones of the ankle would be a lot worse). Then lying nailed to the cross with executioners standing around contributing extra sadistic treatment such as kicking ribs or balls would be a picnic compared to the agony as one is lifted slowly & slides down to have one's weight taken by the nails, pinched nerves etc. In all the films the nailing is correctly accompanied by cries of agony but the actors are silent as the cross is raised, this has to be wrong.
Then up on the cross the alternating between hanging from the wrists or standing on the nails through the ankle bones would soon be exhausting, like doing never-ending squats, the leg muscles would become agony. This would produce lactic acid in the muscles that would eventually result in cramp in almost all the muscles involved in raising & pulling the body up constantly. Cramps of course that could never be eased by stretching the muscles.
The rib cage would become stretched by hanging from the arms, this would have to effect breathing, so the panic of suffocation would become unbearable.
It seems that as one hangs on the cross the tortures just get worse as time goes by. I cannot believe one would hang motionless, it might occur right at the end as one is actually dying - & of course the cross was never actually a killing device like a guillotine it was much more like a pillory intended to expose the criminal to the public; death seemed to come from exhaustion or thirst over time, or as is possible in Christ's case, wounding inflicted before the crucifixion, & of course the executioners had the luxury of choosing the time of death with leg breaking or a stab with a spear.

There had to be a lot of writhing with cries & gasps of pain, not for nothing was it described as resembling those in the act of copulation - this must have been great entertainment for everyone watching. Constant barracking & insults from the spectators might have resulted in those on the crosses shouting back, they certainly would have cursed the executioners. I just don't think they'd hang passively like we see the actors playing Jesus in the movies with nothing more that an inconvenienced frown on their faces!
It is maybe worth pointing out that legs are broken and sides pierced ONLY in John (that's the only place nails are mentioned as well, although Jesus does show his hands and feet to the disciples in Luke after he has risen). In Mark he lasts six hours, in John only three. In all of them he hadn't had much sleep, and is stressed. John makes it clear he is strong enough to carry his own cross, even though he dies in three hours instead of six.
Age might be a factor. The skill of the executioners may be a factor. There may be psychological factors stressing the victim: panic and high stress levels do impact this kind of thing.
 
I am working on a modern crux piece and wondering how long a healthy woman of average weight would last nailed to a cross. Based on this thread I’m guessing 1-2 hours without a sedile and up to 6 with a sedile?
It seems reasonable ... Though that I never have use a sedile, I dont think that it's the panacea ; I use from time to time of a wooden dick but it doesn't functiun like a sedile, it doesn't permit to rest ...

Here is my dick ...

wooden dildo.jpg
 
If she is exectute and has no choice more likely days if she is fit.
Unless it is volunteering then the time range you set would be more appropiate.
 
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