Comments On The New Rules And Conditions.

[111jack]

And you know that "La donna è mobile" it's a part of "Rigoletto" opra, wrote by Giuseppe Verdi , i live at 10 km from his House wich is now a musem and it's astonishing.

Going back to the purpose of this tread wich is how we can help the staff to decide forum rules.
I thought at this scheme if is fine for you and if is posible for imagemaker create it:
It's two pages
First one could be a web deisgn page, whit mian rules, beahave and common comportament, maybe not a "carinval" like mine, just simple words and imagines close to forum theme.
The page can be linkend to another page whit rules lists, this list is very simple.
There i no need to explane anything, like it now, this is your house , so i don't ask you why you paintend the walls in white.
In my view it could be this, brefore every sentece allways the word Please.
P.. no undergae content it will be delete immediatly. ( who care to explane why)
P.. no copyrighted protect thing they will deleted immediatly. (same, who care to explane copyrights rules even, Apple knows them, and goes on from years stealing others projects )
etc.

What do you think if you gave me a page for tests, i can start to make some nice image, and brainstorming on things, even smaller details.
From when i designed the banner i learn many new things whit my Photosop CS5.
Cheers
Jack

 

[thehangingtree]

you know, unless you are blatantly doing something to an underage girl or a member of the US congress (or being done by one) what the hell is the issue here???

 

[The Fallen Angel]

As moderators we need rules so we can sing from the same hymn sheet and follow agreed procedures without falling out. For example last night Eulalia spotted a member posting spam on as many member profiles as he could. He was warned with no effect so Eulalia banned him. I don't know exactly what he was up to but it was probably no good. The Rules and Conditions are here fot all our benefit.

 

[Bozzly]

Spam yuk! That's worse than haggis.

What I realy mean is thanks!

 

[admihoek]

 

[Fantasmo]

I basically had decided to not voice my concerns any more, as I had said several times what bothers me.
But I just had time to "fly through" the posts of the last 3 days and a 2-digit percentage of the art that was posted was in violation of the terms.
Am I the only one in here to be aware of this?
Let me point at Subhunt's pendulum series for example (dismemberment).
Should that be banned? Sure not!

Messaline's thread showing needle play? Illegal in some countries, could lead to criminal charges (in theory), so theoretically in contradiction to the rules...

The real problem still is that the rules (on acceptable content) are not logical (some content is picked out and "outlawed" while other, even "worse" content is allowable, either being any different in public view) and therefore cannot (and should not) be enforced in the way that they are written.
One should and needs to distinguish between the hard rules (for legal reasons) and the soft rules (to keep the site focussed on the theme).

Some people (I am one) are taking rules by the word. And the rules are saying that a big part of the content of this site will not be acceptable any more from now on.

It this is not the intended message, then some rewording may make sense.

 

[Eulalia]

Let me point at Subhunt's pendulum series for example (dismemberment).

Should that be banned? Sure not!​

​

​

Quite. We moderators decided that​

Subhunt's picture's are clearly far from 'hardcore sadism'.​

Messaline's thread showing needle play?

Illegal in some countries, could lead to criminal charges (in theory),​

so theoretically in contradiction to the rules...​

​

​

As you've already noted Fanatasmo,​

the rule refers to behaviour which is stupid and dangerous and could lead to criminal charges​

"and" not "or"​

We don't legislate for all the odd things that might possibly be illegal somewhere,​

but in the jurisdictions listed in the note, and a good many others,​

causing actual bodily harm or endangering life is an offence even if the victim is "consenting".​

​

some content is picked out and "outlawed"

You're obviously referring to the 'hard core sadistic pornography' bit, where​

some examples are given.​

Do you need more?​

​

while other, even "worse" content is allowable

What, for example?​

One should and needs to distinguish between the hard rules (for legal reasons)

and the soft rules (to keep the site focussed on the theme).​

​

​

'Hard' rules that have to be obeyed and 'soft' ones that don't?​

​

Some people (I am one) are taking rules by the word.

And the rules are saying that a big part of the content of this site will not be acceptable any more from now on.​

​

​

​

There are two ways of taking these Rules.​

You can trawl through everything on the site pointing out this and that​

and saying "ooooh! but you've allowed this!"​

​

Or you can go on posting just the kinds of things that you and other active members have been posting for a long time,​

and trust the moderators to let you know if you're sailing close to the line.​

I'm glad to see that most of our friends are happily choosing the second approach.​

some rewording may make sense

Having said all that,​

we are grateful for your help and criticism Fantasmo,​

we know you care about the interests of CruxForums as we do,​

and if you have specific proposals for rewording,​

we'll be grateful for them and consider them carefully.​

 

[Fantasmo]

Hm, that will get tricky, with all those quotes​

​

​

​

Quite. We moderators decided that​

Subhunt's picture's are clearly far from 'hardcore sadism'.​

​

​

... hm, sawing somebody in half is not???​

​

​

We don't legislate for all the odd things that might possibly be illegal somewhere,​

but in the jurisdictions listed in the note, and a good many others,​

causing actual bodily harm or endangering life is an offence even if the victim is "consenting".​

​

That's where the slope is slippery: I have been called "Nazi" over at the foundation for daring to discuss with somebody what can be done with needles and what not, based on this individuals view that it was illegal in US law...​

About anything can be constructed to have some more or less theoretical risks, and in those days about anything is forbidden anyway.​

That's why I am alergic to unnecessary rules.​

​

​

​

You're obviously referring to the 'hard core sadistic pornography' bit, where​

some examples are given.​

Do you need more?​

​

Well, "dying in agony on the cross" would be high up on the list as well, isn't it?​

That's what I mean with "not logical".​

​

​

Or you can go on posting just the kinds of things that you and other active members have been posting for a long time, and trust the moderators to let you know if you're sailing close to the line.​

​

​

Sure, that's one way. But does the whole description of "acceptable content" make any sense then?​

I basically have no way to know if my post is acceptable or not, I post it and wait if it gets pulled or not...​

Also a way... just not the best. I had hoped that the rules would provide some guideline that would help me avoid getting censored from time to time.​

​

​

Having said all that, we are grateful for your help and criticism Fantasmo,​

we know you care about the interests of CruxForums as we do​

​

​

That's what discussions are about, isn't it.​

No, I am not happy with the wording, because it is creating more ambiguity than clarification, but that point was made often enough now .​

 

[Bozzly]

Somehow I agree with both of you.
It's making me crazy

 

[Eulalia]

I basically have no way to know if my post is acceptable or not, I post it and wait if it gets pulled or not...​

Also a way... just not the best. I had hoped that the rules would provide some guideline that would help me avoid getting censored from time to time.​

​

You'll have to do something totally out of court like posting child porn or a snuff video or encouraging cannibalism to get the instant boot.​

If you're sailing a wee bit close to the line, you'll just get a friendly PM.​

And there are several stages in between.​

But just stop obsessing about it, get on enjoying the site, and chances are you'll hit no trouble at all!​

 

[Fantasmo]

Somehow I agree with both of you.
It's making me crazy

The problem on this discussion: I am pretty sure that we are seing the "what this forum should be" quite similarly.
We are equally concerned about a successful future of this place.

But the mods seem to be failing to understand that the current rules are not clear for the members, or should I say "for those who care about the rules AND are interested to contribute more than just 08:15 stuff."

If you are posting anything else than a drawing of some sort, showing a crucifixion (or a foto showing a crucifixion that clearly was made with ropes), you are automatically subject to the "generosity" of the mods to allow this as an exception.
Regardless of the question if, at the end, it would be accepted, this just is not encouraging.
Why should I expose myself to "punishment" when contributing to this community? I rather limit myself to what I know to be welcome for sure. (What clearly is less than some Mods would like to see themselves, Eulalia for example does have some wild fantasies as well )
I'll also not engage in discussions on a subject if I have to expect that part of my statements are removed because somebody is not sharing my views.

Basically I am here for fun, not to quarrel or achieve something, so I just limit myself to the way of least resistance (that got considerably narrower now, as far as I am concerned!).

The second problem:
Currently the consensus among modarators seems to be that the rules are not read or followed by the participants anyway, so "nothing is changing".
The rules rather seem to be seen as some sort of "flexible guideline that can be applied by the moderatirs as they see fit".
BUT: It will be difficult to handle this exactly the same way by all the different moderators (trying to judge with practical BDSM background ranging from 0-100% "what is dangerous" for example).
Inevitably it also will be depending on "who" is posting it, if content is acceptable or not, that's only human.... and dangerous.

But hey, it's not my site. All I can do is warn and point at problems.
Time will tell.

 

[Fantasmo]

get on enjoying the site, and chances are you'll hit no trouble at all!

No worries about that, I'll surely not hit trouble, as I follow the rules, and I'll keep enjoying.

 

[admihoek]

Spijkers op laag water zoeken is a famous dutch saying

 

[Fantasmo]

Spijkers op laag water zoeken is a famous dutch saying

Just not really doing the thing justice if you don't want to limit yourself to posting some "nude girl" pics and talking about beer
But let's let this theme "rest in peace"

 

[admihoek]

 

[Yusebby]

The suggested rules are reasonable, and they are good to have. They can be a protection for the website provider, the moderators, the contributing members, & the viewing members. Rules are good for showing intentions.

How well the Forums work is more dependent on the skills & wisdom of the administrators and the moderators. (And the skills and wisdom of the contributors & members, too.)

 

[The Fallen Angel]

And we all hope to see more of the skills of Yusebby

 

[admihoek]

And we all hope to see more of the skills of Yusebby

agree

 

[Fantasmo]

The suggested rules are reasonable, and they are good to have. They can be a protection for the website provider, the moderators, the contributing members, & the viewing members. Rules are good for showing intentions.

I think we are discussing the wrong theme anyway, or at least are missing one deciding variable in the equation:
" What do the "owners" of this site want it to be?"

Without an answer on this question it is futile to discuss the rules that should support this goal.

And if somebody posts a comment, it equally is relevant what the individuals expectations on the site are.

If the scope of this site is "purelly fictional" (reading/publishing drawings/texts), then the roles are fine.
But discussing any real BDSM activities (like "how to..." / "is this or that dangerous") is a slippery slope.

An estimated (the exact figures don't matter, it's just a magnitude) 97% of the members are lurkers (not posting anything), they don't care what they get, as long as they get something... Those are interested in pictures and texts only anyway.
>=2% are active participants (artists and contributing members) who are not into any real-live BDSM play
Only <=1% (1/3rd of the active members at best) are not only fantasizing but also to a certain extent living their fetish / BDSM and potentialy would like to discuss it or at least read about experiences of others that could be useful if not even instrumental in being able to safely enact one or the other fantasy.

The concerns I raised are mainly out of that last perspective.
Maybe that clarifies...

 

[helmut]