Harders
Condemned
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Cross Workshop
- Thread starter lember
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- cross design discussion workshop
culus
Governor
Adjustable for all sizes! Quite practical!
PhilX
Governor
Interesting how large the bulbous end can be to be accommodated by the penetration. but of course we have to be sensible & practical in the interests of safety - though I frequently read about the most amazing large & ill-shaped objects hospitals have to remove from some people whose imagination carries them away into dangerous territory.
But even when intending eventual death as in Roman times a cornu had to be practicable I think, too large & it would result in serious internal damage. Though I haven't a clue how long it would take to die after a ripped intestine or vagina with all the internal bleeding, anyone have an idea? If the executioners wanted the crucified victim to be up on the cross for a few days then minimum damage would be desirable. But if the intention was for them to be alive on the cross for half a day - twelve hours or so, would a damaging cornu be any particular concern, or indeed part of the designed punishment? It certainly would be another fatal factor in the process. Jesus only lasted six hours, was that the severity of the pre-crucifixion beatings or could he have suffered a rupture internally whilst he was on the cross?
culus
Governor
All valid points. It is doubtful that any lubrication would have been used on the cornu, or in the victim's anus, in historical crucifixions. That, alone would have resulted in damage to both the anus and rectum, not to mention the bowels. Extreme care needs to be taken in contemporary crux scenes. Gay males used to anal intercourse, butt plugs, dildos, fisting, etc. can take a reasonably sized cornu, as long as caution is exercised in insertion and removal. A condemned prisoner, hung naked on the cross, would have had no control over the situation and suffered the awful consequences of rough impalement.
I like the X cross
If I'm going to be crucified I would want to be crucified on the X cross.
dfg42
Senator
I think, everything without spikes has no immediate letal effect and the Romans had a lot of experience what is possible and how long it is need to the crucified to pass away. Hetero males often have the fear that reasonable anal penetrations will destroy their sphincter muscle, so for the audience this might be an interesting act to actually suggest the viewers that this actually happens the crucified male or female. Probably the people looking "prolapse porn" are motivated because of that. Btw, I am, also due to my personal experience, convinced that it is healthy to have some regularly massage including anal penetration and I recommend it hetero males also.
culus
Governor
Prostate massage can lead to an amazing orgasm and milking promotes good prostate health.
I wouldn't know
dfg42
Senator
it is not the prostate only, it is the feeling of your sphincter muscle is opened and I am very sensitive between testicles and asshole.
culus
Governor
A
Ah, yes, the perineum! Or, taint, as it is known, in the vernacular. Many men are ultra sensitive in that area and can be pleasured by their partners, be they male or female, by merely the touch of a fingertip or fingernail. I, too am extremely sensitive in that spot, as well as my belly button and tits.
Ah, yes, the perineum! Or, taint, as it is known, in the vernacular. Many men are ultra sensitive in that area and can be pleasured by their partners, be they male or female, by merely the touch of a fingertip or fingernail. I, too am extremely sensitive in that spot, as well as my belly button and tits.
Rupert_137
Magistrate
How people were crucified
We still don't really know what the crosses looked like that were used for crucifixion in Roman times. Was it the usual crosses, T-crosses, sometimes Andreas crosses?
There are still very few but consistent archaeological finds that at least make it clear how the feet were nailed to the upright post. Three tombs with crucified persons have been found so far, one in Palestine, one in Italy and a third in the Roman province of Britain. And in all three surviving skeletal finds, a nail had been driven into the wood from the side through the heel bone ... never from above through the feet ... and certainly not with one feet on top of the other like the crucifixes depict.
Three finds are not yet proof, but they come from completely different regions of the Roman Empire. In the British find there is also evidence that the feet were previously tied very tightly to either side of the post with a rope... and it is absolutely probable that this was done, after all the victim should not be able to move his feet anymore while being nailed.
Here are two pictures of the latest find from Britain:
The head of the nail is clearly outside the bone, a wooden plate probably lay on the foot for better fixation.
To date, there are no finds that give us clues as to how the hands and arms were fixed to the cross. Certainly the arms were tied to the crossbeam with ropes... but were nails driven through the hands or wrists as well? We haven't found any traces of it yet...
Here is a link to the English article:
We still don't really know what the crosses looked like that were used for crucifixion in Roman times. Was it the usual crosses, T-crosses, sometimes Andreas crosses?
There are still very few but consistent archaeological finds that at least make it clear how the feet were nailed to the upright post. Three tombs with crucified persons have been found so far, one in Palestine, one in Italy and a third in the Roman province of Britain. And in all three surviving skeletal finds, a nail had been driven into the wood from the side through the heel bone ... never from above through the feet ... and certainly not with one feet on top of the other like the crucifixes depict.
Three finds are not yet proof, but they come from completely different regions of the Roman Empire. In the British find there is also evidence that the feet were previously tied very tightly to either side of the post with a rope... and it is absolutely probable that this was done, after all the victim should not be able to move his feet anymore while being nailed.
Here are two pictures of the latest find from Britain:
The head of the nail is clearly outside the bone, a wooden plate probably lay on the foot for better fixation.
To date, there are no finds that give us clues as to how the hands and arms were fixed to the cross. Certainly the arms were tied to the crossbeam with ropes... but were nails driven through the hands or wrists as well? We haven't found any traces of it yet...
Here is a link to the English article:
Rupert_137
Magistrate
The Shroud of Turin
I read a bit about the Shroud of Turin that is said to have wrapped Jesus after his death on the cross... Most experts believe it to be a medieval forgery (12th-14th century), however the surviving image of a crucified man on the shroud is a way too good and of too high quality for a medieval forgery!
I don't want to discuss the authenticity here - which I can't judge - but about some special features.
(There are burn marks on four corners where the cloth was folded)
The depiction of the face and body is conspicuously a negative image, while true color images and positives reveal far less detail (look at the images) - This would be very unusual for a medieval forgery.
But the details of the execution of the crucifixion are interesting, they correspond to all modern knowledge, but are in contrast to the ideas of the Middle Ages.
According to the bloodstains - whether painted or real - the nails were driven through the wrists and not through the palms (as depicted on every crucifix). Likewise, the nails on the feet were driven through the ankle from the side, not through the foot from above. Exactly this also corresponds to the archaeological findings (see #32).
After all, the 'crown of thorns' did not consist of a chaplet of thorns, but of a hood of thorns.
All of this shows more clearly how crucifixion was actually performed in Roman times - the only question that remains is how did a medieval forger know all this. Therefore there are increasing numbers of experts, who consider a medieval forgery to be very unlikely. But the question remains how the image got onto the linen cloth in the first place...
PS: The only scientific investigation of fabric samples from the Shroud took place in 1988. But in the meantime all the results from that time are being questioned: the radio-carbon age (Middle Ages), the found plant pollen (Palestina/ Near East), the lack of evidence of blood or ocher (to paint blood).
Since then, the shroud has not been accessible to science...
I read a bit about the Shroud of Turin that is said to have wrapped Jesus after his death on the cross... Most experts believe it to be a medieval forgery (12th-14th century), however the surviving image of a crucified man on the shroud is a way too good and of too high quality for a medieval forgery!
I don't want to discuss the authenticity here - which I can't judge - but about some special features.
(There are burn marks on four corners where the cloth was folded)
The depiction of the face and body is conspicuously a negative image, while true color images and positives reveal far less detail (look at the images) - This would be very unusual for a medieval forgery.
But the details of the execution of the crucifixion are interesting, they correspond to all modern knowledge, but are in contrast to the ideas of the Middle Ages.
According to the bloodstains - whether painted or real - the nails were driven through the wrists and not through the palms (as depicted on every crucifix). Likewise, the nails on the feet were driven through the ankle from the side, not through the foot from above. Exactly this also corresponds to the archaeological findings (see #32).
After all, the 'crown of thorns' did not consist of a chaplet of thorns, but of a hood of thorns.
All of this shows more clearly how crucifixion was actually performed in Roman times - the only question that remains is how did a medieval forger know all this. Therefore there are increasing numbers of experts, who consider a medieval forgery to be very unlikely. But the question remains how the image got onto the linen cloth in the first place...
PS: The only scientific investigation of fabric samples from the Shroud took place in 1988. But in the meantime all the results from that time are being questioned: the radio-carbon age (Middle Ages), the found plant pollen (Palestina/ Near East), the lack of evidence of blood or ocher (to paint blood).
Since then, the shroud has not been accessible to science...
Last edited:
PhilX
Governor
A British medical expert recently put forward his belief that Christ died from internal bleeding.
He thinks that a fall whilst carrying the cross (the whole cross I would assume - this is grounds for argument I know) caused Jesus to dislocate his right arm. He was then made to carry the cross on his left shoulder but unable to do that with only one arm functioning someone else had to carry the thing.
On the cross his arm was pulled four inches longer which included the main artery serving the arm. With the constant raising & lowering this extended & weakened artery was dragged repeatedly over the ribs until eventually it ruptured & he bled internally to death. It explains the spraying out of blood when his side was pierced after death & no longer with a pumping heart.
It could explain why the right arm is too long on the Turin Shroud. But I do not know what I make of the Shroud's authenticity.
If Christ's arm was dislocated it adds a terrifyingly painful extra to the whole crucifixion story. Imagine having it nailed out wide & then one had only the functioning left arm to haul oneself up with along with one's legs. Every move up & down would be agony in the right shoulder.
He thinks that a fall whilst carrying the cross (the whole cross I would assume - this is grounds for argument I know) caused Jesus to dislocate his right arm. He was then made to carry the cross on his left shoulder but unable to do that with only one arm functioning someone else had to carry the thing.
On the cross his arm was pulled four inches longer which included the main artery serving the arm. With the constant raising & lowering this extended & weakened artery was dragged repeatedly over the ribs until eventually it ruptured & he bled internally to death. It explains the spraying out of blood when his side was pierced after death & no longer with a pumping heart.
It could explain why the right arm is too long on the Turin Shroud. But I do not know what I make of the Shroud's authenticity.
If Christ's arm was dislocated it adds a terrifyingly painful extra to the whole crucifixion story. Imagine having it nailed out wide & then one had only the functioning left arm to haul oneself up with along with one's legs. Every move up & down would be agony in the right shoulder.
Rupert_137
Magistrate
I have also read about this reference, but this is a doctor who has changed to the profession of priest! That seems to me to be a fundamental problem in all investigations into the Shroud of Turin: Most people who deal with it in detail are either convinced of its authenticity, or they rule out its authenticity from the outset...
However, as for the interesting idea of the dislocated right shoulder causing profuse internal bleeding, it must be noted that this shroud is burned precisely in the area of the crucifixion victim's shoulders and the elbows seem to me to be on one level... So the assessment is very good difficult, even for a doctor.
In fact, however, this injury would have shortened the suffering of Jesus considerably, since he quickly fainted from blood loss, perhaps even dying.
However, I can well imagine serious shoulder injuries occurring when someone has to carry the patibulum (not necessarily the whole cross) and his arms are tied to the wooden beam. The leverage forces that act on the shoulders and arms from the wooden beam when falling are enormous!
If you fall with your arms tied to the patibulum, your arms and shoulders will be easily dislocated violently...
Naraku
Draconarius
This isn't related to The Shroud but...
I remember several years ago hearing a medical expert suggest that, when he fell on his way to Golgotha, Jesus struck his chest on the ground with the weight of the cross or patibulum on his back. This could have caused a condition that can occur with blunt force trauma to the chest, in which the pericardium fills with fluid. The pericardium is a fluid sack the surrounds the heart. Normally it provides protection for the heart, however, a blow to the chest area can cause a condition called cardiac tamponade, where the fluid builds up, putting pressure on the heart and restricting its function and can ultimately result in death.. Not only would this explain the rapidity of Jesus death, but also the rather strange statement in the gospels that, when the soldier thrust a spear into Jesus' side, blood and water flowed out. The "water" would have been pericardial fluid.
Full disclosure: I'm not a doctor. The descriptions above come from Wikipedia and an episode of M*A*S*H.
Puritan
Magistrate
Have you ever tried it?
Though easy to make and set up, it’s REALLY hard to provide a sustainable position for fun and games unless your feet are on the floor. Which is cool but not crucifixion!
You can always tie their ankles to the cross so they are elevated off the floor.
bispanker
Magistrate
yes bind my ankles to the cross make me struggle while on the cross very good idea
lember
Magistrate
Here was a variation where legs are not stritcly fixed so there is a space for a performance with them.
Double fix ensures that she can only initiate any moves, but cannot continue it beyond a few centimeters.
In beginning position half of her weight is on footrest, half on feet cuffs, and a bit on shoulders and back, because if she tries to put more weight on tiptoes, upper legfix pulls back ankles.
When her back gets tired, which is a matter of time, she finds her wrists and midriff to hold her weight and slips down to hang. In this case she needs to move her legs away to make space for her upper body. But since it˙s her ankles are fixed closed to the wall instead of her feet, she cannot move her knees forward, only turn them apart from each other, open up loin, let the witnesses to inspect parts of that that were not so visible in standind postition. Straps let soles turning toward and approach each other
Double fix ensures that she can only initiate any moves, but cannot continue it beyond a few centimeters.
In beginning position half of her weight is on footrest, half on feet cuffs, and a bit on shoulders and back, because if she tries to put more weight on tiptoes, upper legfix pulls back ankles.
When her back gets tired, which is a matter of time, she finds her wrists and midriff to hold her weight and slips down to hang. In this case she needs to move her legs away to make space for her upper body. But since it˙s her ankles are fixed closed to the wall instead of her feet, she cannot move her knees forward, only turn them apart from each other, open up loin, let the witnesses to inspect parts of that that were not so visible in standind postition. Straps let soles turning toward and approach each other