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How Does This Kink Apply To The Empowerment Of Women?

  • Thread starter Deleted member 32280
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Eulalia said:
Being a sub/ slavegirl/ masochist, putting up with pain, is, necessarily, hard, it's not for wimps, and in that sense it is 'empowering' -
I know that Amy, and others in those Red Feline films are certainly strong women, physically and as persons.

In RL, I'm deeply against exploitation and maltreatment of women, and I do worry that our fantasies might prompt impressionable types to act them out in RL - but I think the very obviously fantastic, and quite often humorous, style of our Forums marks us off very clearly from the worst kinds of really misogynistic porn.

I don't identify with feminism - at least not in its most strident forms - I firmly believe that we women should be treated respectfully and as equals, and obstacles to opportunities should be broken down - but I accept that 'masculine' and 'feminine' strengths and qualities are different, and although many women have ''masculine' qualities I don't think we should expect or want that women should take on traditionally male roles in equal numbers to men - we shouldn't be prevented, but we shouldn't measure our success by becoming interchangeable with men, rather we should be valued as women.
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Eulalia, I think you hit the nail on its head. I believe the assumption that women are necessarily exploited or objectified in fantasy scenes as depicted and described here is false, and disempowering to those who, as yourself, engage for personal gratification. I like to believe that those who participate in this kink fulfill erotic desires that often include infliction or reception of pain within limits and generally involves submission -- in the purest sense a balanced exchange between the tormentor and the tormented -- as equals, without regard for gender. Language that implies RL gratification from seeing another actually suffer is disgusting. For me the line is drawn where I detect a level of disregard for respect, including self-respect.
Perhaps the most satisfying encounters leave us in awe... perhaps perspiring and somewhat breathless for a time. Then RL resumes...
 
I am highly misogynistic and even racist in my fantasies but I don't have any problem with that. If a person can enjoy playing Grand Theft Auto V without being a criminal in real life, I see no reason why not I can be all that in my fantasies without being one in real life.

In fact, the word 'fantasy' implies that it's something either impossible to or should not happen in real life. Acknowledging that boundary frees me to explore the darkest and the most exciting depths of my fantasies without changing my views and beliefs in real life.

I want to degrade a girl in a way that it makes her regret ever born as a female in my fantasies. But that does not prevent me from detesting sexism and making a stance against it in real life. Also, I love to call all Asian girls as "chinks" or even "monkeys" in some of my fantasies but that by no means means that I, being an Asian myself, want or would tolerate to be treated that way in real life.

Most people have such a duality in their mind whether or not they realise it, or how well they can keep the boundary separated. If we did not have such a nature, it wouldn't be possible for the mankind to develop art as it often involves depicion of things that are not strictly moral and commendable in real life.
 
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Eulalia said:
I don't identify with feminism - at least not in its most strident forms - I firmly believe that we women should be treated respectfully and as equals, and obstacles to opportunities should be broken down - but I accept that 'masculine' and 'feminine' strengths and qualities are different, and although many women have ''masculine' qualities I don't think we should expect or want that women should take on traditionally male roles in equal numbers to men - we shouldn't be prevented, but we shouldn't measure our success by becoming interchangeable with men, rather we should be valued as women.
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That perfectly sums up my stance in that matter except that I have less problem with identifying myself with "feminism", possibly because so many people treat it like it's something worse than ISIS where I live. It makes me want to stand openly in its defense so that all the great progress we have made in the past few centuries in its name wouldn't be denied or forgotten.
 
As for the misogynistic argument, I can only speak for myself, but I don't feel as though I hate women at all, very much the opposite. If didn't like women and wasn't attracted to them, then I wouldn't be interested to see them tied up and in various predicaments.

As for the empowerment aspect, if BDSM was illegal, for instance, I don't think that would be empowering to women either as many women get a lot of enjoyment out of it.

Overall, it is simply interesting to explore ideas, and the fantasies that you find around these areas are expressions of that exploration.
 
KageKamen said:
I think that empowerment of a sort can be found in facing adversity bravely - and this site presents women with plenty of adversity!
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also, knowing that we're giving pleasure, maybe quite a lot of pleasure, gives us a kind of advantage, even when naked, bound and helpless - in the complex, subtle game of sex relations.
 
I don't think BDSM per se has much to do with the empowerment of women. But if anything, I suppose it can be something that shows how society has evolved so far from the time when a woman's role in sex was restricted mainly to her husband's bedroom, satisfying his desire rather than her own.

I do not doubt that there were many kinky women in the past, but probably they couldn't make their sexual preferences public without losing their reputation as a respectable woman.

Of course, we still are not entirely free from such prejudices, and that's one of the reasons why we appreciate a place like CF. But now, at least the severity of potential social stigma we can expect from "coming out" such a tendency is not as highly dependent on our gender as it did in the past.

As Eulalia rightly put it, we should strive to allow women to freely choose any gender role they like without having to worry about social stigma or hidden disadvantages imposed on them for doing so.

Unfortunately, many seem to believe that feminism is about choosing a suitable role - like the strong girl stereotype we see in so many films nowadays, for instance - for women and force them to play it.

Similarly, probably the more relevant aspect of BDSM, if there's any, could be how it can allow women to choose whatever sexual role according to their fantasies and express their identity by playing it.

Even if she chooses to play a slave girl whose only interest in life is to please her male owner sexually, it's still marked progress from the time when women didn't have any such choice.

Now, at least women can talk about such fantasies in a place like CF without having to worry about others thinking her to be a slut for that.
 
Deleted member 32280 said:
Hi people Iv'e been thinking about how performers like Amy Hesketh can decide the Lenses and Camera Moves that will depict them Dying Naked On a Cross. I don't quite understand this articulate right of freedom to be filmed being killed for the sexual gratification of others. There is a Paradox going on here. The right to live as all equals and to live in a compartment of the mind that allows the depiction of sexual murder. ....And then being equal again.........until you get the itch........
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I think Amy Hesketh does it because she likes it, and she makes money doing it.
 
rangersmith said:
I think Amy Hesketh does it because she likes it, and she makes money doing it.
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I think it was more than just 'liking', it was a real passion in many senses. I don't suppose she made a huge amount of money from it, though she did win an award from the Bolivian Government. She was of course a film director as well as actress, and she's a professor now, teaching film studies at Olympic College, Bremerton WA.
 
Interesting.

I looked up Amy's bio on the Olympic site:
Amy Hesketh is the coordinator of the OC Film School as well as tenured, full-time faculty, teaching film production, directing, and post-production to students. Prior to joining Olympic College, Amy founded a film production company in Bolivia, where zie produced over 11 feature films and directed five feature films. In 2015, after 10 years of living and working in Bolivia, the government of Bolivia honored Amy with the prestigious award of “Valuable Contributions to Bolivian Culture” for pioneering the New Wave of Bolivian cinema. Zir most recent, and sixth, feature film, RUCKER (2022) was shot in Bremerton, WA and made in collaboration with OC Film School student crew and actors. Amy holds a BA in Fine Arts from Goddard College and a MFA in Film from Vermont College of Fine Arts.

Notice, it doesn't say "Starred in several BDSM films centering on the crucifixion of women."

Wonder if the Dean or Regents know about Amy's acting experience?
 
poem21045 said:
Interesting.

I looked up Amy's bio on the Olympic site:
Amy Hesketh is the coordinator of the OC Film School as well as tenured, full-time faculty, teaching film production, directing, and post-production to students. Prior to joining Olympic College, Amy founded a film production company in Bolivia, where zie produced over 11 feature films and directed five feature films. In 2015, after 10 years of living and working in Bolivia, the government of Bolivia honored Amy with the prestigious award of “Valuable Contributions to Bolivian Culture” for pioneering the New Wave of Bolivian cinema. Zir most recent, and sixth, feature film, RUCKER (2022) was shot in Bremerton, WA and made in collaboration with OC Film School student crew and actors. Amy holds a BA in Fine Arts from Goddard College and a MFA in Film from Vermont College of Fine Arts.

Notice, it doesn't say "Starred in several BDSM films centering on the crucifixion of women."

Wonder if the Dean or Regents know about Amy's acting experience?
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Oh yes, I'm sure they do - at least, the President and Board of Trustees should (it's a Community College, under the WA School Board, as I understand it - interestingly, 'with strong military connections', especially the Navy, I don't know if sailors sign up for Amy's courses!), but the films she made with Jac Avila are regarded (I think rightly) as serious, if controversial, works of film-makers' art, they're not just junk porn.
 
Deleted member 32280 said:
Hi people Iv'e been thinking about how performers like Amy Hesketh can decide the Lenses and Camera Moves that will depict them Dying Naked On a Cross. I don't quite understand this articulate right of freedom to be filmed being killed for the sexual gratification of others. There is a Paradox going on here. The right to live as all equals and to live in a compartment of the mind that allows the depiction of sexual murder. ....And then being equal again.........until you get the itch........
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There is also the challenge of an actor to express things. To express the death or the pain of a torture is quite considered as there high-level of it. To use his own nude body for that is also considered as high-end acting, which can however go into unaccepted porn- A more know version of it might be the rape scene of Monica Belluci in irreversible, or think of Daniel Craig being tortured in Casino Royale
 
This point in the conversation feels like a great moment to link to Amy's own thoughts about directing and acting in exploitation movies:

"Some parties will get after me for making a movie like Le Marquis. They're going to be angry because a woman is making a campy 'exploitation' film, in the footsteps of Jess Franco, Roger Corman, Jean Rollin, and others. Personally I feel that there could be more campy post-modern 'exploitation' movies, films that have a little fun with the dark side, that don't take themselves so seriously. That go just a bit farther than their predecessors."

 
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