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Just another Day in the Sewing Room

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Tiredny

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This is my first story on this site and I don’t know whether my stories will be appreciated here as they are nowhere near as severe as most. Indeed, there is very little sexual activity in my stories. Nevertheless, to me they are most erotic!

Up to now, I have been posting on a 'closed' story site. Closed in that only members can read or submit stories and no one can download. The people who run the sight are extremely pleasant and have always treated me fairly and have even helped me on a number of occasions. In short, I cannot say enough positive things about my experience there.

Further, the site management team strongly encourages feedback to writers. This is much appreciated as I and I believe most writers want to improve our offerings. Targeted feedback helps us do just that.

So, why post here?

Well, I typically get 100 to 200 views on my stories. My sense is an 'open site' like this may expose my stories to a wider audience. While saying that, I fully realize that my stories by nature will only appeal to a rather narrow audience. My favorite erotic author is Dedeaux and if you are interested you can read about him and his works here:

https://cpbiblio.wordpress.com/p-n-dedeaux-2/

While I can never replace the 'master', I can at least write stories with similar story lines and that was one of my goals here.

My other goal or rather I was challenged to write a story to explain what's happening in this old drawing attached.




It was another rainy day at the Weston Reformatory for Women and the inmates were unusually restless. The prison bell had just clanged at 6:45am signaling the end of breakfast and the beginning of the work day. This set the inmates scurrying to their assigned work location.

Failure to arrive to work on time at 7:00am meant certain punishment. Many of the inmates were forced to cross the big prison yard and this meant they would arrive soaking wet. It also slowed them down due to the soft mud they were forced to sprint over. Many were worried they'd be late and that meant getting punished by the matron in charge of their work detail.

Well, that is exactly what happened in the sewing room. Two inmates arrived at their station 2 to 3 minutes late: Jenny Howard and Anne Murphy both soaking wet as well. Their sewing room matron, Maude Gruder, was out sick and sitting at her desk was the new deputy warden, Gordon Jenks. Although new and rather young, Warden Jenks was well award of the need to maintain discipline in the reformatory. In fact, he believed the punishments should be a tad more severe and more visible. That is, dispensed in the presence of other inmates.

Before he could say anything, Jenny and Anne walked by his desk into the store room. Gordon looked over the workroom to see if any other stations were empty and finding none said, "Ok, ladies, please begin your work for today. Naturally, I expect everyone will achieve their daily quota... without exception! As usual, you may talk, but very, very low so as NOT to disturb others. You'll find me fair, but strict. Enough said – Please BEGIN!"

Warden Jenks grabbed the clipboard and then walked into the store room leaving the door open so that others in the workroom could hear what transpired. Upon entering he found both Jenny and Anne bent over a heavy table with their wet skirts piled high on their backs and their drawers lowered. Jenny's bare white 18 year old bottom was in the required position to receive the "standard punishment" for arriving late and her prison issued drawers were pooled around her ankles. Anne was in a similar position only she had removed her shoes and drawers completely since her shoes were covered in mud. Anne was 19 and her bottom was both larger and firmer than Jenny's. Further, with her flaming red hair, the skin on her backside was very white and covered with freckles. Neither inmate had any marks or signs on their backsides of previous punishment, so these were good girls that just got caught up in some bad weather coupled with poor planning.

Warden Jenks was in somewhat of a dilemma as he wasn't sure what the "standard punishment" for being late was in this particular workroom. The matrons had a great deal of latitude in how they ran their rooms. Further confusing things, hanging on the opposite wall from the long heavy bench were several paddles, straps and canes. It was clear from the position of Anne and Jenny that Matron Gruder punished on the bare. Many of the other matrons reserved bare bottom for only the most severe punishments. Anyhow, the nearest instrument was a dark wood paddle about 2 feet long, 3 inches wide and a half inch thick. It was well worn from use and Jenks suspected this was the preferred instrument. He took it down and said, "Well, ladies you know we don't tolerate late arrivals. You've been punished before and I need to be fair. So, how many swats would Matron Gruder typically dispense?"

Anne and Jenny looked at each other and Anne quickly answered, "Four sound swats apiece, Sir!"

Jenny's eyes opened as wide as possible, because that was not entirely true. Yes, Matron Gruder would give 4 swats to some inmates ... on some days ... but she was moody and tended to be much tougher on those she didn't like.

Warden Jenks said, "OK, that seems fair and I assume she uses this well worn paddle?"

"Yes, Sir," answered Anne, "that paddle seems to be her favorite."

"OK, what are your names and ages?"

Jenny answered, "Jenny Howard - eighteen, Sir!" Then Anne responded, "Anne Murphy - I'm nineteen, Sir!"

"OK," said Warden Jenks as he recorded the names on his clipboard. "My standard procedure is we go in order of age and that means, you're first, Jenny. So please bend your knees a little and stick your rump out."

Jenny immediately complied as she wanted no trouble. Further, since she was expecting anything from 6 to 12 swats, she'd planned do everything the Warden asked to insure she got no "extras". She had been spanked; indeed, all of the inmates had been spanked by Matron Gruder in this room on multiple occasions. Matron Gruder spanked hard and expected the inmates to accept their punishment with a minimum of fuss. Any movement, covering up or screaming was always rewarded with "extra" swats.

With Jenny's knees bent her bottom was nicely rounded and Warden Jenks decided to apply all four swats down low on the meatiest portion of Jenny's bottom. He tapped the paddle twice in the target area. This allowed him to gage the firmness of the offered cheeks. He then swung the paddle high in the air and brought it down and then slightly upwards so that the paddle landed flush on the underhang where Jenny's cheeks were their heaviest and had the most padding. A loud CRACK exploded and both cheeks were visibly driven upwards.

"mmmmmmmmmm .....mmmmmm... ohhhh, THANK YOU, SIR!" called out Jenny.

Jenks then delivered a second swat to exactly the same place. SMMACK!!!

"Ohhhh mmmmmm.... wisssssssh.... mmmmmmm.... THANK YOU, SIR!" again it was clear that Jenny was well trained to accept her punishment without fuss or nonsense.

The last two swats were delivered hard and fast, but Jenny never lost control and always thanked the warden for the swat. After that last swat, a cherry red band was clearly visible across the lower 4 inches of Jenny's bottom and the girl couldn't keep her tender, twitching, and swollen hind cheeks still. She remained in position, however, to receive additional swats in case the Warden deemed necessary. Fortunately for her the Warden was satisfied and said, "OK, Jenny, let's hope you learn from this to be on time. You may get up and return to your work station."

Jenny immediately pulled up her drawers and left the store room WITHOUT rubbing or caressing her sore bottom cheeks.

Jenks then turned to Anne and found she had bent her knees and had her bottom thrust out in a way that created a perfect target. "Is this the way you want me, Warden?" asked Anne

Warden Jenks was a little surprised by Anne's submissive attitude, and answered with, "Why yes. That is perfect!" As with Jenny, he took the paddle back as far as he could and delivered the first swat flush on the lower cheeks of Anne's bottom. Her cheeks did not giggle like Jenny's, but they still move upwards some and returned quickly to their original position.

"mmmmmmmmmMMMMMM OOFF, THANK YOU, WARDEN!" cried out Anne.

Then next swat was even harder and was delivered exactly on the same spot. CCRACKK!!

"MMMMMMMMMMMMM OHHHH, THANK YOU, WARDEN!" as with Jenny it was clear that Anne had been paddled before and would do nothing to risk additional punishment.

When the third hard swat landed, Anne called out, "YES, Sir!! ... THANK YOU, WARDEN!" In spite of the tears beginning to form in her eyes, Anne felt she was very lucky that Maude Gruder was out sick today. While these four swats hurt, she knew a spanking from Matron Gruder would be much, much worse.

After the last swat, she was instructed to replace her shoes and drawers and then return to the workroom. While she was putting on her shoes, Jenks asked whether it was standard practice to offer a 'thank you' for each swat.

Anne then explained, "Matron Gruder says that any swat NOT thanked is a swat NOT appreciated and ... is always repeated. In addition, Matron Gruder expects every inmate to get the full benefit from every spanking. That means, anytime an inmate rubs or caresses her sore bottom, that inmate would earn a 'do over'. Her expectation is that punished inmates are to be sitting on sore, throbbing backsides."

Warden Jenks felt he learned some interesting points from Anne, but of course, it was really Matron Gruber's methods that intrigued him. Upon returning to the workroom he heard some giggling and hushed conversations.

Jane Waymore, at 29 and the oldest inmate in the workroom, was chatting with her neighbors, "This Jenks character is a wimp! Four swats only and neither Anne nor Jenny had any tears! I'm thinking we can have some real fun with this dufus."

Her neighbor, Liza said, "Please, don't include me. I want NO trouble!"

"Me either!" said her other neighbor, Molly.

"CHRIST! ... I am surrounded by wimps!" exclaimed the frustrated Jane rather loudly.

Warden Jenks said, "Now, that's enough! Didn't I just say that you are NOT to disturb others? You, with the big mouth will now get three swats for that out burst."

Jane thought to herself, 'Big deal – three little swats – so what – that's nothing!' She then stood up and started for the store room.

Warden Jenks called out, "Hey, where do you think you are going?"

"To the store room to bend over the table. That's where we are always punished," answered Jane.

"Not today! Today, you'll bend over your worktable! Further, you'll get your three swats right here in front of the people you disturbed."

"Oh, please, Sir, you won't make be bare myself in front of everyone! It's - it's indecent!" begged Joan.

"OK, you may retain your drawers, but only if you pull them tight over your hindquarters. If you let go even once, they come down and we start over. Do you understand?"

"Yes, Sir," said Joan as she lifted her skirts and bent over. She next grabbed her drawers and pulled them tight across her bottom, "Is this the way you want me, Sir?"

"Yes, that's fine. Just remember to KEEP THOSE DRAWERS TIGHT!" Warden Jenks answered as he headed for the store room to get the paddle. As he walked by the desk he remembered that in his brief case was a new thong sent to him by his cousin, Margaret. Margaret was head matron in a maximum security prison and she claimed these new thongs worked wonders ... even over pants! She called them a bull's pizzle or something like that. It was about the length of a cane, but much thicker and heavier. In spite of its thickness, it flexed much like a thin whippy cane. Jenks figured this was the ideal time to try out this new instrument. He removed the coiled thong from his brief case, and got into position behind Jane.

As he was lining up he said, "Tighter Jane! I want those drawers as tight as you can get them!"

Jane pulled harder on the drawers causing the divide in her rump to be clearly visible. As she was doing that Jenks then raised the thong over his shoulder and brought it down hard on the exposed drawers. SPLATTTT!!!

Joan immediately screamed, "YEAOOOOOW, THAT REALLY HURTS .... THANK YOU, SIR!" Tears began to form in her eyes as this was sheer agony.

The next stroke was delivered an inch or so higher than the first, but just as hard. WHACCCKK!!

"OH GOD THAT HURTS! PLEASE SIR, IT'S ENOUGH! I'VE LEARNED MY LESSON ... PLEASE NO MORE .... THANK YOU, WARDEN!"

Warden Jenks thought, 'well, finally we are getting some place' and delivered the final stroke several inches below the first and even harder yet. WHHAACCKKKK!!!

"YEAOOOOOWWWW .... OHHHHH MY GOD .... I CAN'T TAKE IT!!! PLEASE, SIR ... PLEASE, PLEASE NO MORE ...." and Joan continued howling and crying for several minutes, but never let go of her drawers.

Warden Jenks had just earned the respect of every inmate in the room and from then on, they listen very closely to every word he uttered. "There will be no more workroom disruptions ... unless of course, you'd like to sample what Jane just got. Further, anyone failing to achieve her quota for today will get FIVE swats in exactly the same manner as Jane. Any questions?"

No more encouragement was need! Everyone without exception began working on their sewing immediately ... just as fast as they could manage. No one wanted to experience a thrashing like they just saw Jane receive.
 

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Oh yes, you'll find Dedeaux fans here, I'm sure your stories will be appreciated -
this is a fine start, thanks for posting it.

Our site policy and rule is simply not to mention 'underage' or ages <18 -
I'll tweak your text very slightly, it won't affect the story in any way.
 
You had me at "Dedeaux."

I very much enjoyed your story, and though my personal tastes tend to run to the more severe, I thought this was well done. Please be assured, a wide range of kink is welcome here. I hope you will post more of your work.

As Eulalia mentions above, Dedeaux's "Clotilda" inspired me--specifically in one chapter (the chapter titled "S and M") in my ongoing story "Mina Berkeley's Voyage.") Actually more than "inspired"--it's more like I shanghied his Judge Jeffreys, renamed him Judge Higgens, and shipped him to Cape Coast for my story. I also borrowed the Judge's bull pizzle whip, which will be put to use in a future chapter.

I very much appreciate the link you provided with the info on Dedeaux. I'm going to have to get some more of the D-dude's work, including the other three chapters of "Clotilda."

Since you welcome feedback I thought I'd offer a couple of quick suggestions. First, you begin the story with three paragraphs of exposition setting out the circumstances, the setting, and the characters. My suggestion is to get rid of those paragraphs. Tweak the first sentence of the fourth paragraph and begin the story there. What I mean is something like this:

Before the Deputy Warden could say a word, Jenny Howard and Anne Murphy walked past the Sewing Room Matron's desk and into the store room, where the punishments were administered.

I think that gets the reader immediately into the action. Then you can explain the circumstances and the characters through dialogue and in bite-sized bits of exposition as you go along.

My second suggestion would be to not use words like "Ok," "doofus," and "wimp." "Ok" has been around a long time, I know, but it sounds modern, and the other two are fairly modern. You don't mention a specific time period when this is taking place, and that's fine, but we know that since we're in a women's reformatory where corporal punishment is routinely practiced and women have to sit all day in a sewing room, it's probably from at least sometime early in the last century. There's nothing that takes me out of a story like an obvious anachronism. And the word "thong" is problematic. I know a thong can be a strip of leather, but it can also be scanty underwear, which is what I immediately thought of, and neither usage really refers to a whip. So I was a little confused for a few sentences.

Anyway, just my opinion.

Thanks for sharing, and I hope to read more of your stories here.
 
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Interesting point about thongs -
naturally I rather like the overlap between the 'whip' sense and the 'micro-undie' sense,
both forms of exquisite torture around my sensitive parts!
I'd use 'whipthong', but to me that refers to the lash, the business end of a whip -
a leather strap for spanking is the guid Scots 'tawse'.
 
Since you welcome feedback I thought I'd offer a couple of quick suggestions. First, you begin the story with three paragraphs of exposition setting out the circumstances, the setting, and the characters. My suggestion is to get rid of those paragraphs. Tweak the first sentence of the fourth paragraph and begin the story there. What I mean is something like this:

Before the Deputy Warden could say a word, Jenny Howard and Anne Murphy walked past the Sewing Room Matron's desk and into the store room, where the punishments were administered.

I think that gets the reader immediately into the action. Then you can explain the circumstances and the characters through dialogue and in bite-sized bits of exposition as you go along.
I agree-that would go along withe the maxim for writers to show, not tell.

"Ok" has been around a long time,
It is believed to derive from the nickname of US President Martin van Buren (1836-1840), who was from the town of Kinderhook, New York and was know as "Old Kinderhook". Others claim it's from the Choctaw language of the Sooutheatern US, where "okeh" means "it is so".

Doofus appears to date from around 1960 and wimp from around 1920.
 
Interesting point about thongs -
naturally I rather like the overlap between the 'whip' sense and the 'micro-undie' sense,
both forms of exquisite torture around my sensitive parts!
I'd use 'whipthong', but to me that refers to the lash, the business end of a whip -
a leather strap for spanking is the guid Scots 'tawse'.

God! I wish I were Scottish! Then I could say things like "Lassie! I'll gie ye a guid skelping with my tawse!" (Sorry about the ridiculous accent.):spank:
 
I agree-that would go along withe the maxim for writers to show, not tell.


It is believed to derive from the nickname of US President Martin van Buren (1836-1840), who was from the town of Kinderhook, New York and was know as "Old Kinderhook". Others claim it's from the Choctaw language of the Sooutheatern US, where "okeh" means "it is so".

Doofus appears to date from around 1960 and wimp from around 1920.

I knew "Ok" had to date at least from before the O.K. Corral. Otherwise, why would the corral have been named the "O.K." Corral? I suppose it would just have been called The Corral, and we probably wouldn't even know about a gunfight there. My point was that (to me) it "sounds" too modern. But Ok.
 
a leather strap for spanking is the guid Scots 'tawse'.

God! I wish I were Scottish! Then I could say things like "Lassie! I'll gie ye a guid skelping with my tawse!" (Sorry about the ridiculous accent.):spank:

Uhh, by the way, Eulalia, just to clear up any possible misinterpretation, it wasn't my intention to direct this at you personally. I hope that goes without saying, but I thought I'd better say it anyway. I just meant in general, if I were Scottish, I could say cool things like that. Like they do on "Outlander." Or like Scotty, on "Star Trek."
 
You had me at "Dedeaux."

I very much enjoyed your story, and though my personal tastes tend to run to the more severe, I thought this was well done.


Since you welcome feedback I thought I'd offer a couple of quick suggestions. First, you begin the story with three paragraphs of exposition setting out the circumstances, the setting, and the characters. My suggestion is to get rid of those paragraphs. Tweak the first sentence of the fourth paragraph and begin the story there. What I mean is something like this:


My second suggestion would be to not use words like "Ok," "doofus," and "wimp." "Ok" has been around a long time, I know, but it sounds modern, and the other two are fairly modern.

And the word "thong" is problematic. I know a thong can be a strip of leather, but it can also be scanty underwear, which is what I immediately thought of, and neither usage really refers to a whip. So I was a little confused for a few sentences.

Thanks for sharing, and I hope to read more of your stories here.


Just want to take a minute to thank everyone for their comments. Naturally everyone has different ideas about what is erotic to them and consequently, what constitutes eroticism in a story.

I'd like to refer to the about post in reverse order, so let's talk about "thong". To me "thong" is a very old term for a type of whip. You will find this word used in Nell in Bridewell which is one of the very oldest erotic chastisement works. It is also used extensively in Edith Cantor's Indeed. So on the one hand "thong" can turn Jon off (due to modern underwear), it can mean serious corporal punishment to others. In my story I used it to introduce a new instrument to Warden Jenks, the bull's pizzle another "old instrument".

Next we get to language and historical accuracy. This can be a very interesting topic. The question is have we increased or decreased eroticism by the use of modern and easy to understand terms. Indeed, this begs an even more complex question of fetishes projected back in time. That is, does this destroy the erotic content or increase it? Another of the successful writers of erotic chastisement is Richard Manton:

https://cpbiblio.wordpress.com/richard-manton-janus-and-grove-press/

https://cpbiblio.wordpress.com/richard-manton-and-blue-moon/

Now I have always enjoyed his work. He is famous for projecting clothing and fetishes backwards in time. For example he will describe a Victorian workhouse thrashing of Noreen and detail how delicious Noreen looked in her tight jeans where the back seam fits tightly into her anal crack separating the round globes of her posterior. Problem, of course, is this "workhouse thrashing" took place long, long before jeans were even invented! So the question is whether this "inaccuracy" hurts the story. I think I can make a case, indeed, the very success of Manton makes the case, that his fetish works regardless of the time period in which he places it.

Let me contrast Manton with another successful and very prolific writer (over 700 novels) Paul Little. Little published under several pseudonyms: Kenneth Harding, A De Granamour, Jack Warren, Jose Lengua, Hugo Paul and dozens more. Now he wrote a bunch of period piece erotic chastisement novels. He fancied himself as a historian and his "historical" novels were highly accurate. Now, did I purchase his novels because of their extreme accuracy? Hardly!! Those are the parts I skipped over! My interest was in the chastisements and I could care less about accuracy. Indeed, when it comes to language, Old English I find as "erotic" as a used condom.

So if historical accuracy or language is NOT very important to me, what makes a story work? To me the issue is "plausibility". That is, has the author created a world where the punishment dispensed is plausible given the description of the world he or she created. Remember this is fiction! It is NOT supposed to be real life!

Finally, we come to the issue of "immersion". That is, should we spent "some" time building our world before the action begins or should we immerse our readers directly into the action. Now clearly, Jon, your view is aligned with that world famous writer, Snoopy! I can still remember him sitting on top of his doghouse pounding out his novel:

"It was a dark and stormy night. A shot rang out followed by a woman's scream ...."

Like you, Jon, I don't want chapters devoted to character development in my erotic readings. Nevertheless, since plausibility is important to me, I want some time spent detailing the "world" and how it works.

Regards,
Tired
 
Just want to take a minute to thank everyone for their comments. Naturally everyone has different ideas about what is erotic to them and consequently, what constitutes eroticism in a story.

I'd like to refer to the about post in reverse order, so let's talk about "thong". To me "thong" is a very old term for a type of whip. You will find this word used in Nell in Bridewell which is one of the very oldest erotic chastisement works. It is also used extensively in Edith Cantor's Indeed. So on the one hand "thong" can turn Jon off (due to modern underwear), it can mean serious corporal punishment to others. In my story I used it to introduce a new instrument to Warden Jenks, the bull's pizzle another "old instrument".

Next we get to language and historical accuracy. This can be a very interesting topic. The question is have we increased or decreased eroticism by the use of modern and easy to understand terms. Indeed, this begs an even more complex question of fetishes projected back in time. That is, does this destroy the erotic content or increase it? Another of the successful writers of erotic chastisement is Richard Manton:

https://cpbiblio.wordpress.com/richard-manton-janus-and-grove-press/

https://cpbiblio.wordpress.com/richard-manton-and-blue-moon/

Now I have always enjoyed his work. He is famous for projecting clothing and fetishes backwards in time. For example he will describe a Victorian workhouse thrashing of Noreen and detail how delicious Noreen looked in her tight jeans where the back seam fits tightly into her anal crack separating the round globes of her posterior. Problem, of course, is this "workhouse thrashing" took place long, long before jeans were even invented! So the question is whether this "inaccuracy" hurts the story. I think I can make a case, indeed, the very success of Manton makes the case, that his fetish works regardless of the time period in which he places it.

Let me contrast Manton with another successful and very prolific writer (over 700 novels) Paul Little. Little published under several pseudonyms: Kenneth Harding, A De Granamour, Jack Warren, Jose Lengua, Hugo Paul and dozens more. Now he wrote a bunch of period piece erotic chastisement novels. He fancied himself as a historian and his "historical" novels were highly accurate. Now, did I purchase his novels because of their extreme accuracy? Hardly!! Those are the parts I skipped over! My interest was in the chastisements and I could care less about accuracy. Indeed, when it comes to language, Old English I find as "erotic" as a used condom.

So if historical accuracy or language is NOT very important to me, what makes a story work? To me the issue is "plausibility". That is, has the author created a world where the punishment dispensed is plausible given the description of the world he or she created. Remember this is fiction! It is NOT supposed to be real life!

Finally, we come to the issue of "immersion". That is, should we spent "some" time building our world before the action begins or should we immerse our readers directly into the action. Now clearly, Jon, your view is aligned with that world famous writer, Snoopy! I can still remember him sitting on top of his doghouse pounding out his novel:

"It was a dark and stormy night. A shot rang out followed by a woman's scream ...."

Like you, Jon, I don't want chapters devoted to character development in my erotic readings. Nevertheless, since plausibility is important to me, I want some time spent detailing the "world" and how it works.

Regards,
Tired

Fair enough. Since you don't find my suggestions to have any particular merit, I withdraw them, and apologize for my presumption.
 
Fair enough. Since you don't find my suggestions to have any particular merit, I withdraw them, and apologize for my presumption.

Whaooo, not so fast! I said several times that your post brought out interesting issues.

You do not have to accept my explanations as dogma... just my personal view. My views, however, do tend to influence what I write. Further, since I seek no compensation, I write only to please my own personal demons.

Two other issues I neglected to mention are:

1. Severity - neither of us write nearly as severe as most of the stories posted here. The site I tend to post on is LSF - Library of Spanking Fiction. They have between 20 and 30 thousand stories. My stories are a tad too severe for there, but marginally too mild for most readers here.

2. Clotilda - probably my least favorite Dedeaux. Just about every one of the stories is a re-do of an earlier work. That Chapter 2 clearly is a re-do of Nell in Bridewell, which itself is an English version of an earlier German work titled "Lenchen im Zuchthause". In my view, Dedeaux is at his best when he constructs his own "world" like in The Tutor.

Regards,
Tired
 
Some interesting points there, Tired.

First, on historical accuracy-That's something that I and, Barbaria, with whom I frequently collaborate, give a fair amount of importance to. My story "The Real Historical Female Jesus" wrote about a real historical person and I tried to capture her spirit even if I had to introduce some speculative elements (which I acknowledged). Barb and I spent a good bit of time researching what undergarments women would have worn at the time of the American Revolution for one scene. In our story, "Barbary Coast", we tried to keep close to the actual historical events of the time (with one or two liberties);). I tried to do the same in my antebellum story "Visiting The Jackson Plantation". One does ones best to capture the way people might have spoken back then, without going so far as to make the story unreadable. Of course, if you're doing a Roman Crucifixion, you won't capture how they spoke unless you write in Latin, or Greek or Aramaic..

What none of us can do is capture the way people at the time would have actually reacted to the events. We are necessarily imposing our modern points of view, which may not be the same as theirs. That's unavoidable.

As for character development and eroticism, I couldn't disagree more strongly with you. Simply describing the physical effects of the treatment loses its interest after a bit. I want to see the reactions and understand how the people feel and that requires some sense of who the people are-on both sides of the whip. Nor does every scene in a longer erotic story have to be "hot". A slow build up can be exciting in literature as in real life.

As for severity, I don't think there is a solid correlation between eroticism and severity. There are very severe stories that I find erotic and others I find dull as dishwater. Similarly for mild stories. The quality of the writing is what makes the eroticism. I think one of the most erotic stories I have written is probably the mildest, "Budget Busting Barb". But tastes vary of course.

Finally, I'm curious about your opinion of specific stories here. Your profile indicates that you have joined recently and the onlly comments I've seen from you are on this thread. I would hope you would have a look around at the work of some of the other writers here and offer constructive comments.
 
Some interesting points there, Tired.

First, on historical accuracy-That's something that I and, Barbaria, with whom I frequently collaborate, give a fair amount of importance to. My story "The Real Historical Female Jesus" wrote about a real historical person and I tried to capture her spirit even if I had to introduce some speculative elements (which I acknowledged). Barb and I spent a good bit of time researching what undergarments women would have worn at the time of the American Revolution for one scene. In our story, "Barbary Coast", we tried to keep close to the actual historical events of the time (with one or two liberties);). I tried to do the same in my antebellum story "Visiting The Jackson Plantation". One does ones best to capture the way people might have spoken back then, without going so far as to make the story unreadable. Of course, if you're doing a Roman Crucifixion, you won't capture how they spoke unless you write in Latin, or Greek or Aramaic..

What none of us can do is capture the way people at the time would have actually reacted to the events. We are necessarily imposing our modern points of view, which may not be the same as theirs. That's unavoidable.

As for character development and eroticism, I couldn't disagree more strongly with you. Simply describing the physical effects of the treatment loses its interest after a bit. I want to see the reactions and understand how the people feel and that requires some sense of who the people are-on both sides of the whip. Nor does every scene in a longer erotic story have to be "hot". A slow build up can be exciting in literature as in real life.

As for severity, I don't think there is a solid correlation between eroticism and severity. There are very severe stories that I find erotic and others I find dull as dishwater. Similarly for mild stories. The quality of the writing is what makes the eroticism. I think one of the most erotic stories I have written is probably the mildest, "Budget Busting Barb". But tastes vary of course.

Finally, I'm curious about your opinion of specific stories here. Your profile indicates that you have joined recently and the onlly comments I've seen from you are on this thread. I would hope you would have a look around at the work of some of the other writers here and offer constructive comments.

Good comments as well, winder.

I think it's great that you aim for historical accuracy and found your story Visiting the Jackson Plantation most interesting and entertaining. In that story, you did a fair amount of character development and I believe that effort paid off in making the story highly "plausible".

Frankly, windar, I am a little confused by your comment that "I couldn't disagree more strongly with you." It was Jon who said that I should eliminate the first three paragraphs of my story where I set the stage, and introduce the characters. I am firmly in your camp that for a story to be "plausible" requires that the author create a "world" that allows the reader to suspend disbelief. Creating this world requires setting the stage, introducing characters, defining the rules, establishing the hierarchy etc.

Next, I found your comments on language spot on. The goal as you state is to try to communicate as accurately as characters would communicate in this created world WITHOUT using the exact language they would use. Problem with duplicating language is you would lose readers just lost by archaic terms and structures in historical stories.

So far my favorite story on this site is Bridewell, but I first encountered this story on another site. One of my favorite themes is the "reluctant acceptance of corporal punishment". Indeed, a world where cp is dispensed frequently and universally accepted is my ideal world.

Regards,
Tired
 
I think it's great that you aim for historical accuracy and found your story Visiting the Jackson Plantation most interesting and entertaining. In that story, you did a fair amount of character development and I believe that effort paid off in making the story highly "plausible".
I'm glad you liked that story. It was sort of a morality tale combined with lots of whipping and sex and some might have found it an odd mix.:nusee:

Frankly, windar, I am a little confused by your comment that "I couldn't disagree more strongly with you."
I was reacting to the following comment of yours
Like you, Jon, I don't want chapters devoted to character development in my erotic readings.
I do like those and plot twists as well.:D

One of my favorite themes is the "reluctant acceptance of corporal punishment".
A few you might like, then are "Budget Busting Barb" by yours truly and "Publically Caned in 1923 for Promiscuity" by Barbaria. If you like judicial punishment, you could try my Trabbian Justice trilogy as well.
 
I fully agree with Tiredny's choice of key writers in the artistic description of severe corporal punishments: W. Reinhard, P.N. Dedeaux, R. Manton, P. Little. Here I would add some French authors, such as Jean de Virgans and A. Gaultier de Saint-Amand.
 
Just want to take a minute to thank everyone for their comments. Naturally everyone has different ideas about what is erotic to them and consequently, what constitutes eroticism in a story.

I'd like to refer to the about post in reverse order, so let's talk about "thong". To me "thong" is a very old term for a type of whip. You will find this word used in Nell in Bridewell which is one of the very oldest erotic chastisement works. It is also used extensively in Edith Cantor's Indeed. So on the one hand "thong" can turn Jon off (due to modern underwear), it can mean serious corporal punishment to others. In my story I used it to introduce a new instrument to Warden Jenks, the bull's pizzle another "old instrument".

Next we get to language and historical accuracy. This can be a very interesting topic. The question is have we increased or decreased eroticism by the use of modern and easy to understand terms. Indeed, this begs an even more complex question of fetishes projected back in time. That is, does this destroy the erotic content or increase it? Another of the successful writers of erotic chastisement is Richard Manton:

https://cpbiblio.wordpress.com/richard-manton-janus-and-grove-press/

https://cpbiblio.wordpress.com/richard-manton-and-blue-moon/

Now I have always enjoyed his work. He is famous for projecting clothing and fetishes backwards in time. For example he will describe a Victorian workhouse thrashing of Noreen and detail how delicious Noreen looked in her tight jeans where the back seam fits tightly into her anal crack separating the round globes of her posterior. Problem, of course, is this "workhouse thrashing" took place long, long before jeans were even invented! So the question is whether this "inaccuracy" hurts the story. I think I can make a case, indeed, the very success of Manton makes the case, that his fetish works regardless of the time period in which he places it.

Let me contrast Manton with another successful and very prolific writer (over 700 novels) Paul Little. Little published under several pseudonyms: Kenneth Harding, A De Granamour, Jack Warren, Jose Lengua, Hugo Paul and dozens more. Now he wrote a bunch of period piece erotic chastisement novels. He fancied himself as a historian and his "historical" novels were highly accurate. Now, did I purchase his novels because of their extreme accuracy? Hardly!! Those are the parts I skipped over! My interest was in the chastisements and I could care less about accuracy. Indeed, when it comes to language, Old English I find as "erotic" as a used condom.

So if historical accuracy or language is NOT very important to me, what makes a story work? To me the issue is "plausibility". That is, has the author created a world where the punishment dispensed is plausible given the description of the world he or she created. Remember this is fiction! It is NOT supposed to be real life!

Finally, we come to the issue of "immersion". That is, should we spent "some" time building our world before the action begins or should we immerse our readers directly into the action. Now clearly, Jon, your view is aligned with that world famous writer, Snoopy! I can still remember him sitting on top of his doghouse pounding out his novel:

"It was a dark and stormy night. A shot rang out followed by a woman's scream ...."

Like you, Jon, I don't want chapters devoted to character development in my erotic readings. Nevertheless, since plausibility is important to me, I want some time spent detailing the "world" and how it works.

Regards,
Tired

I was feeling a little pugnacious this morning and thought I'd respond more fully to Tired's response to my suggestions.

First off, Tired, when you said that I had aligned myself with Snoopy, pounding out "It was a dark and stormy night. . ." on his typewriter, that was the most insulting thing you could have accused me of. I would rather you had simply told me to fuck off.

That was how I took it at the time, but that may be an overreaction. I felt I had aligned myself with writers like, oh, I don't know, Mark Twain, Stephen King, Windar, who admonish us to "show, don't tell." But it is true; I prefer to begin in the middle of things, you want to begin at the beginning, and that's a stylistic preference, not a right or wrong choice.

But I never suggested, and don't believe, that just because you start as close to the action as you can, you should neglect other elements like character development, setting or motivation. If you ever read anything of mine I think you'll find I spend waaaay too much time on backstory and character. We can all agree that it's not just the action that makes a story worthwhile.

Plausibility, as you say, is critical to a story. We clearly have different ideas of how far we are willing to suspend disbelief. ". . . I could care less about accuracy," you say. I think it would be more accurate to say "I couldn't care less," but I get your point. Obvious anachronisms don't take you out of the world that a writer is trying to establish. Again, that's a preference. For me, one of the enjoyments of reading good historical fiction is the feeling of immersion, say, on a ship of the line of the 18th century, where I feel the author knows the difference between a tops'l and a ratline--even though I don't--and has his sailors use language that I can hear in my own mind as authentic. And I don't mean an occasional "Aarh, aarh, me matey."

If the plantation owner in Windar's "Jackson Plantation," had referred to his slaves as "African-Americans," I probably would have given a hoot of laughter and I'm not sure I would have continued reading. When Warden Jenkins remembers the thong his cousin Margaret had given him, I found that amusing as well. And that is still the image I have, of this stern Warden carrying around a pair of his cousin's skimpy panties in his briefcase. Of course we discover in the next sentence or two that you mean a whip, but which image is going to immediately occur to most readers?

And by the way, I would have advised Snoopy to get rid of that first sentence. It's just dry exposition. And rewrite the second sentence to follow Mark Twain's advice, "Don't say the old lady screamed. Bring her on and let her scream."

Regards,

Jon
 
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I felt I had aligned myself with writers like, oh, I don't know, Mark Twain, Stephen King, Windar, who admonish us to "show, don't tell."
I don't know what to say, being put in such company.

The bottom line is, cavils aside, I liked Tired's story and I believe you did too. I relish that there is a great variety of stories here and no formuula which one must satisfy. I sincerely hope Tired will post more here and also get involved in some of the other story threads.

I think the discussion here is interesting, though if it goes on too much longer it may distract from the story. Back when Boccaccio was here, he and I had some good PM discussions about the role of various elements in this genre of stories. You and I have had such as well, Jon. I've always meant to start a publlic thread on this topic and maybe now is the time.
 
I don't know what to say, being put in such company.

The bottom line is, cavils aside, I liked Tired's story and I believe you did too. I relish that there is a great variety of stories here and no formuula which one must satisfy. I sincerely hope Tired will post more here and also get involved in some of the other story threads.

I think the discussion here is interesting, though if it goes on too much longer it may distract from the story. Back when Boccaccio was here, he and I had some good PM discussions about the role of various elements in this genre of stories. You and I have had such as well, Jon. I've always meant to start a publlic thread on this topic and maybe now is the time.
Agreed. I did enjoy the story. I wouldn't have spilled so much ink otherwise. But enough.
 
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