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Eulalia

Poet Laureate
Staff member
Yesterday, @MICHELE PATRI put a post on his martyrs in the arena thread about Sainte Béate, who got martyred in Gaul in 275 AD, in a place named Avrolles near Sens.

CF always instigating for expanding one's knowledge, my research made me discover Sainte Béate appearing on a stained window in the Sens cathedral, the second from right.

View attachment 955569

Now, could someone with a more profound theological background, explain me what is the meaning of the phallus-like attribute at Béate's feet?:confundio1:

View attachment 955573
It might possibly be an aspergillum, a holy water sprinkler - and a censer at the feet of her saintly neighbour.
On the other hand ...
 

Eva Inanna

Magistrate
Yesterday, @MICHELE PATRI put a post on his martyrs in the arena thread about Sainte Béate, who got martyred in Gaul in 275 AD, in a place named Avrolles near Sens. CF always instigating for expanding one's knowledge, my research made me discover Sainte Béate appearing on a stained window in the Sens cathedral, the second from right. View attachment 955569 Now, could someone with a more profound theological background, explain me what is the meaning of the phallus-like attribute at Béate's feet? :confundio1: View attachment 955573
Perhaps when Sainte Béate had that picture taken for the vitraux she dropped the vibro? (At the wrong time in the wrong place?) :nusee:
 

Barbaria1

Rebel Leader
Staff member
Now, could someone with a more profound theological background, explain me what is the meaning of the phallus-like attribute at Béate's feet?:confundio1:
Oops ... a little toy she was hiding under her robe and accidentally dropped?
 

Heineudo

Magistrate
Yesterday, @MICHELE PATRI put a post on his martyrs in the arena thread about Sainte Béate, who got martyred in Gaul in 275 AD, in a place named Avrolles near Sens.

CF always instigating for expanding one's knowledge, my research made me discover Sainte Béate appearing on a stained window in the Sens cathedral, the second from right.

View attachment 955569

Now, could someone with a more profound theological background, explain me what is the meaning of the phallus-like attribute at Béate's feet?:confundio1:

View attachment 955573
Perhaps she needed that so that divine satisfaction could enter her mind?
 

Loxuru

Graf von Kreuzigung
It might possibly be an aspergillum, a holy water sprinkler - and a censer at the feet of her saintly neighbour.
On the other hand ...
It could be an aspergillum indeed, for sprinkling holy water, and the 'censer' could then be the 'aspersorium', the vessel that contains the holy water.
Perhaps she needed that so that divine satisfaction could enter her mind?
Oops ... a little toy she was hiding under her robe and accidentally dropped?
Alternatively : since she died by crucifixion : her cornu?:confused:
 

Eulalia

Poet Laureate
Staff member
It's hard to find anything about her beyond the statement that she was with a couple of men named Augustine and Sanctian when they fled from the Visigothic Arian persecution in Spain to Sens, but they got martyred there instead, though how or why isn't mentioned anywhere. And even her name isn't certain - Beata or Benedicta. Her neighbour is 'Ste Madeleine', presumably Mary Magdalen, the pot at her feet might be the jar of precious ointment. But what the two are holding in their right hands isn't clear. The windows are late compared to the famous medieval ones in the cathedral, made in1653 by one Antoine de Soulignac.
 

Loxuru

Graf von Kreuzigung
It's hard to find anything about her beyond the statement that she was with a couple of men named Augustine and Sanctian when they fled from the Visigothic Arian persecution in Spain to Sens, but they got martyred there instead, though how or why isn't mentioned anywhere. And even her name isn't certain - Beata or Benedicta. Her neighbour is 'Ste Madeleine', presumably Mary Magdalen, the pot at her feet might be the jar of precious ointment. But what the two are holding in their right hands isn't clear. The windows are late compared to the famous medieval ones in the cathedral, made in1653 by one Antoine de Soulignac.
One version states that Saint Béate's brother Sidroine, officer in the Roman army, but a Christian, was arrested for refusing to venerate a sanctuary of the gid appolo. His sister Béate was arrested too and executed. Sources differ on the year of the execution (273AD, 275AD or even 293AD), and some name her as Sidroine's mother.
 

Eulalia

Poet Laureate
Staff member
A Sidronius is another saint venerated at Sens, though on a different date, July 11th, Beata and co. are Sept 6th. But he's equally obscure, apparently confused with another martyr of that name who was venerated on July 11th in Flanders.
 

Loxuru

Graf von Kreuzigung
A Sidronius is another saint venerated at Sens, though on a different date, July 11th, Beata and co. are Sept 6th. But he's equally obscure, apparently confused with another martyr of that name who was venerated on July 11th in Flanders.
Cydroine seems to have been taken to Troyes for trial, escaped but got killed. Béata is also venerated on 29th of June. On one hand, the stories seem to have common points, but do not converge to a single account.
 

Leatherchain

Magistrate
Here is an interesting little find. Someone posted these in a thread on FB. I found it intriguing, and thought others here might enjoy it.
Makes one's mind drift to fantasy ideas of magical nails.

"Pulling the nail! Foundation ritual nails, Nortia annual nails and spell studs..."
 

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Rias

Neko Girl
Here is an interesting little find. Someone posted these in a thread on FB. I found it intriguing, and thought others here might enjoy it.
Makes one's mind drift to fantasy ideas of magical nails.

"Pulling the nail! Foundation ritual nails, Nortia annual nails and spell studs..."
oho on ebay is some ancient roman nails to buy wonder any oryginal 1ad but me think any was not dated c4 coal method probarly are just only building nails from those times or medival from someone doors or windows :oops: :cat:
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=crucifixion+nail&_sacat=0&_pgn=1
 

Rias

Neko Girl
So some of them still look extremely new, surprisingly well preserved for an age of 2000 years. Did they secretly produce stainless steel back then? With a little phosphoric acid and water, I would trust myself to produce such "old" nails.:smash2:
oho me saw experiment in tv when they buy new nail and knock nail throw tasty fresh meat with bone inside and bury in ground in garden for half year looks very realisticat :oops: :cat:
 

Leatherchain

Magistrate
So some of them still look extremely new, surprisingly well preserved for an age of 2000 years. Did they secretly produce stainless steel back then? With a little phosphoric acid and water, I would trust myself to produce such "old" nails.:smash2:
I believe these are all actually bronze, not iron or steel. They do not rust. Even iron and steel will survive extremely well in certain conditions. There are actually much older surviving artifacts that look this good. It all depends on the material, and how/where it was buried.
 

jedakk

CARNIFEX MAXIMUS
I believe these are all actually bronze, not iron or steel. They do not rust. Even iron and steel will survive extremely well in certain conditions. There are actually much older surviving artifacts that look this good. It all depends on the material, and how/where it was buried.
Yes, those are bronze. I took pictures of those same nails in the British Museum in London in 2002 - see attached. For whatever reason, the top two nails are switched in position from where they were when I took my pictures.

The first picture is the third nail from the top enlarged and with a grid superimposed on it so I could analyze its dimensions and estimate the amount of taper. Even though these are bronze, I thought they might be similar in proportions to iron nails in use at the time, so used this one as a reference when I modeled the nails I used to crucify Sabina.

The second picture is an enlargement and crop of the third picture.

There actually are a lot of nearly 2000-year-old Roman iron nails in existence in very good condition. A buried pit containing more than 875,000 of them was found about 1960 at Inchtuthil in Scotland where apparently the Romans had hidden them before leaving the fort for the last time near the end of the first century AD. They were all donated to museums or sold by 1963 and are still floating around on the market in case anyone wants to buy a real Roman iron nail just like the ones used for crucifixions. The story of the nails at Inchtuthil is at The story of Inchtuthil (glasgowsteelnail.com).
 

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phlebas

PRIMUS POENUS
Staff member
Here is an interesting little find. Someone posted these in a thread on FB. I found it intriguing, and thought others here might enjoy it.
Makes one's mind drift to fantasy ideas of magical nails.

"Pulling the nail! Foundation ritual nails, Nortia annual nails and spell studs..."

I've seen the same thing on FB. I wonder if we belong to the same group?

oho on ebay is some ancient roman nails to buy wonder any oryginal 1ad but me think any was not dated c4 coal method probarly are just only building nails from those times or medival from someone doors or windows :oops: :cat:
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=crucifixion+nail&_sacat=0&_pgn=1

Yes, many things on ebay are genuinely old but wrongly attributed, such as the many medieval and early modern rings sold as Roman. And just because a Roman nail is long, doesn't automatically make it a "crucifixion" nail.

So some of them still look extremely new, surprisingly well preserved for an age of 2000 years. Did they secretly produce stainless steel back then? With a little phosphoric acid and water, I would trust myself to produce such "old" nails.:smash2:

The more genuine items you see and handle, the better the chance of spotting fakes :)

I believe these are all actually bronze, not iron or steel. They do not rust. Even iron and steel will survive extremely well in certain conditions. There are actually much older surviving artifacts that look this good. It all depends on the material, and how/where it was buried.

Quite right, bronze can preserve really well in the right conditions, whereas I have rarely seen a well preserved iron item from those times. In some soils even bones won't last a millenium, I worked for a short time on a dig in Scotland where the early medieval christian cemetery revealed little more than teeth.
 

Rias

Neko Girl
I've seen the same thing on FB. I wonder if we belong to the same group?



Yes, many things on ebay are genuinely old but wrongly attributed, such as the many medieval and early modern rings sold as Roman. And just because a Roman nail is long, doesn't automatically make it a "crucifixion" nail.



The more genuine items you see and handle, the better the chance of spotting fakes :)



Quite right, bronze can preserve really well in the right conditions, whereas I have rarely seen a well preserved iron item from those times. In some soils even bones won't last a millenium, I worked for a short time on a dig in Scotland where the early medieval christian cemetery revealed little more than teeth.
oho me good know even roman bronze nail not make from him cru-cat-fuxion nail becuse was hard to get even in ancient times becuse no smart jews squirrels stole they always becuse was very strong healing talisman they belive also nails from caiaphas high priest who judge jesus was from his ossuarium probarly crucatfuxion nails me watch program probarly from crucatfuxion maybe was only gift for ossuarium to caiaphas maybe ressurect who know or maybe he change mind like in some old papers and later belive in chirst and was jesus nails who know becuse what make 2 roman nails in high priest jew ossuarium inside it also watch later program they try get dna from they but only found there some wood and bones on it to small to take dna but from turin shround they take and was also happen turin person was have blood not jew but druz they mary with jews only to 10-11 century later become closed group also but think still all relics are still medieval fakes only not those who was c4 coal date to 1 century can be not fake but they are even not any prooves belongs to jesus or other apostols in all cases still :oops: :cat:
 
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