dfg42
Senator
I guess Ken is washing hands in innocence.
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Pictures By Scarecrow 1428
- Thread starter Scarecrow1428
- Start date
poem21045
Tribunus Plebis
Love it, Scarecrow! Any link to buying it? I checked amazon and googled "crucifix toilet paper holder"--no luck.
wiki, much of what is on CF is in an ongoing offense against large segments of Christianity, placing naked women in the place of Christ crucified.
Blasphemous? Sacrilegious? You bet it is. But these are major draws for many into this kink.
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dfg42
Senator
Yes it is of theological importance that Jesus actually is a man, but it is also a religious imperative that you discuss and think about what he did. So replacing him by a female, let you wonder and thinking about the story. So female christ's might be not what actually happened, but female Christs might let you think about it, and might even bring some people that way to Jesus and to religion.
In my own lapsed Catholic case I get a screamingly sacrilegious erotic jolt from looking at beautiful naked women crucified in the Roman manner.
Crux has no chance of remaking me into any kind of theist.
dfg42
Senator
probably few people agree with me but I think it is difficult to make an erotic sacrileg. Well let me try to explain. I once had a "I wanted to have" girl friend and when I approached her, she said "that her body is her temple". I tried to convince her that my "holy water" should be distributed in her. I however, I couldn't convince her and she left me before that, just to say, also your "crucified women" are in my beliefe, created by the same christ who died on the cross.
crumera
Crucifier of Pixels
Speaking for myself I am not interested in religious thoughts about crucifixion,
neither am I interested in atheistic opinions about christianity or other religions.
Think the crucifix toiletroll holder is quite disrespectful for some people the less said about it the better.
But some people will use anything to get some attention
I personally take no offense with the idea.
I am only interested in the visual aspect of crucifixion, especially the female form.
Think some people will use anything to antagonize people who they disagree with
Taking every opportunity to preach their own philosophical thoughts..
Maybe take those discussions somewhere else..
This forum AFAIK is about the erotic aspects of crucifixion.
There are forums where you can discuss the philosphical/religious or anti religious aspects of crucifixion ad nauseum.
Maybe go discuss it there ?
Thats my 2 cents, feel free to ignore.
neither am I interested in atheistic opinions about christianity or other religions.
Think the crucifix toiletroll holder is quite disrespectful for some people the less said about it the better.
But some people will use anything to get some attention
I personally take no offense with the idea.
I am only interested in the visual aspect of crucifixion, especially the female form.
Think some people will use anything to antagonize people who they disagree with
Taking every opportunity to preach their own philosophical thoughts..
Maybe take those discussions somewhere else..
This forum AFAIK is about the erotic aspects of crucifixion.
There are forums where you can discuss the philosphical/religious or anti religious aspects of crucifixion ad nauseum.
Maybe go discuss it there ?
Thats my 2 cents, feel free to ignore.
willowfall
Senator
If you are that easily offended you are in the wrong place. EVERY ONE of the pictures\stories\comments on this site could be deemed offensive to someone and even someone here.
Once you open the flood gate of censor ship on items you find offensive then you open the right of people who find what you like offensive to bar what you take pleasure in.
To quote Voltaire: “I do not agree with what you have to say, but I’ll defend to the death your right to say it.” and “I detest what you write, but I would give my life to make it possible for you to continue to write.”
Moral supremacists' are the most offensive of people because they demand compliance with their ideas and views. If they like it it is ok, if they don't it is to be banned.
That is not what a free society is all about.
kisses
willowfall
Scarecrow1428
Governor
I think if you are the sort of Christian that will be offended by a crucifix toilet roll, then 1) you are in the wrong place; 2) you have confused religion with faith; and 3) I suspect that Jesus would suggest that you should be more offended by actual obscenities (like kids dying of starvation) than by a symbolic twist on something invented by a religious institution.
crumera
Crucifier of Pixels
1 I come here for viewing and showing erotic crux.. "NOT for seeing attempts to offend anyone that dares to think in an other way then me then claim free speech and tell em they are in the wrong place.
2 maybe confusing free speech with the freedom to insult for it's own sake is here in order.
3 maybe less praise of sacrilege this isn't a forum for advocating religious or antireligious belief systems..
Lets keep it on topic instead. I know that will be very difficult for some people who feel their own opnions are that important..
Go discuss those opinions on a more appropiate forum, I bet there are plenty of those.. maybe begin your pointless discussions over there... not here!
If fail to see the erotic value of a crucifix shaped toiletroll holder I only see advocating people the sacriligious value of it..
Wrong forum IMHO
2 maybe confusing free speech with the freedom to insult for it's own sake is here in order.
3 maybe less praise of sacrilege this isn't a forum for advocating religious or antireligious belief systems..
Lets keep it on topic instead. I know that will be very difficult for some people who feel their own opnions are that important..
Go discuss those opinions on a more appropiate forum, I bet there are plenty of those.. maybe begin your pointless discussions over there... not here!
If fail to see the erotic value of a crucifix shaped toiletroll holder I only see advocating people the sacriligious value of it..
Wrong forum IMHO
willowfall
Senator
Your first mistake is confusing the 2 as separate things.
Like it or not true free speech entitles a person to say (or in the case of an "artist" produce) whatever they want. When you start deciding what can or can not be said you no longer have free speech and you have started on the road to censorship.
Once you have started on the road towards censorship sooner or later it will affect something you have to say or believe you have a right to say. There is no other end point as proven throughout history.
Now the converse of that is: (1) You have the right to say it is offensive and\or disgusting and no one has the right to tell you you can't say that. (2) You have the right to be offended. (3) You have the right to not contribute economically to or to boycott whoever is supporting said offensive material. (4) You have the right to opine that such material should not be on this site.
AND
If you OWN this site you have the right to say, not on my site you don't.
But once you take steps 1-4 you lose the right to complain when something you find inoffensive, or you like, complained about or banned.
Personally I'm adult enough to say "That person (the one who produced the offensive material) is an idiot" and to ignore them from this point forward. I suggest to most people that they learn the 'Serenity Prayer" and realize that unsaid line #4 is 'And 99.999% around you are things out of your control'.
To quote another person much smarter than I am : “So the Universe is not quite as you thought it was. You'd better rearrange your beliefs, then, Because you certainly can't rearrange the Universe.” - Issac Asimov
Never open a door you don't want other people walking thru.
kisses
willowfall
(ps: Even though I am agnostic I do find material that specifically attacks religious beliefs to be both short sighted and extremely bigoted. And what most people don't realize, ironically, is that usual they are perform the same 'sin' they are complaining about in their attack on religion.)
crumera
Crucifier of Pixels
Free speech is guaranteed by many constitutions. It has nothing to do with what a site will or will not tolerate.
There was a discussion not a day ago about just such a thing.. limiting the free speech of Fallenmystic because moderators decided he went to far with posting some (too much?) non crux stuff.
And well it is limited free speech but I can live with that because of the sites rules. BDSM and crux being the foundation of this forums.
(Pun intended)
It always had been my impression this site is about erotic crucifixions, not political or religious discussions.
I post my stuff here because I am under that impression.
Member are here for the crux stuff. not counting the BDSM section which has some overlaps but also clearly has an erotic overtone.
So If I am wrong and this site has been changed into where some may vent their disdain about religion but others may not go against that because of free speech and basically told to leave if they can't handle that, well that would change things for me.
The fantasy of crux can be seen as sacrilegious, but thats not the point of discussion.
the discussion here is about respect for people who have another believe as the ones who write about their sacrilegious intentions.
if one group's opionion is protected while the other group must shut up or told to leave, there is something quite wrong In my book.
Quoting the sites rules:
Policy on political and other irrelevant posts
Arguments about politics and other irrelevant topics have no place on this site, they will just drive people away, so they will be deleted.
Promoting the sacrilegious or blasphemous nature of something while trying to drive people away (you are in the wrong place posting by several people)that take offense that's what is happening here.
Personally I take offense about that behavior not that stupid picture.
I am looking at you Apostate. if you want to talk and promote (preach) those kind of thoughts. why not in private to people who are interested in that aspect.
It is quite irrelevant for a lot of people who come here for the fantasy of BDSM or crux erotics, including me.
Don't think someone would get the opportunity to promote the opposite, religious promoting thoughts like that..
So why is the anti religious more special that it needs protection by free speech?
there is 2 sides here. if one is allowed then the other side should be allowed too.
Hope the above quoted forum rule is still valid and both sides of that penny will be declared irrelevant and offtopic.
IMHO Both sides have no place for discusions/promotions here..
Moderator team : If I am wrong about the intentions/goals no longer being the discusions of crux/BDSM. and posting relevant pics. please let me know.
There was a discussion not a day ago about just such a thing.. limiting the free speech of Fallenmystic because moderators decided he went to far with posting some (too much?) non crux stuff.
And well it is limited free speech but I can live with that because of the sites rules. BDSM and crux being the foundation of this forums.
(Pun intended)
It always had been my impression this site is about erotic crucifixions, not political or religious discussions.
I post my stuff here because I am under that impression.
Member are here for the crux stuff. not counting the BDSM section which has some overlaps but also clearly has an erotic overtone.
So If I am wrong and this site has been changed into where some may vent their disdain about religion but others may not go against that because of free speech and basically told to leave if they can't handle that, well that would change things for me.
The fantasy of crux can be seen as sacrilegious, but thats not the point of discussion.
the discussion here is about respect for people who have another believe as the ones who write about their sacrilegious intentions.
if one group's opionion is protected while the other group must shut up or told to leave, there is something quite wrong In my book.
Quoting the sites rules:
Policy on political and other irrelevant posts
Arguments about politics and other irrelevant topics have no place on this site, they will just drive people away, so they will be deleted.
Promoting the sacrilegious or blasphemous nature of something while trying to drive people away (you are in the wrong place posting by several people)that take offense that's what is happening here.
Personally I take offense about that behavior not that stupid picture.
I am looking at you Apostate. if you want to talk and promote (preach) those kind of thoughts. why not in private to people who are interested in that aspect.
It is quite irrelevant for a lot of people who come here for the fantasy of BDSM or crux erotics, including me.
Don't think someone would get the opportunity to promote the opposite, religious promoting thoughts like that..
So why is the anti religious more special that it needs protection by free speech?
there is 2 sides here. if one is allowed then the other side should be allowed too.
Hope the above quoted forum rule is still valid and both sides of that penny will be declared irrelevant and offtopic.
IMHO Both sides have no place for discusions/promotions here..
Moderator team : If I am wrong about the intentions/goals no longer being the discusions of crux/BDSM. and posting relevant pics. please let me know.
willowfall
Senator
Well we certainly agree on one thing ...... if the site management is going to allow bashing of religion but not promotion then they really don't have a free speech philosophy leg to stand on.
And they are being a wee bit hypocritical.
And the proper solution is to either outlaw both or allow both. Personally I'd fall on the side of allowing both (in favor of truly free speech) but in today's social (media) environment it seems to be impossible to have reasoned unemotional conversations on any emotional topic.
But I guess the question then becomes "what are your standards"? My mother is a stanch Roman Catholic and would be offended by the idea of this site never mind the content. Is 3 crosses in a picture (replicating the New Testament description of the crucifixion) in or out of bounds? And how to we prevent people from asking for things to be taken because they are offended even if the majority of the sites members aren't?
The devil is always in the details.
And of course all theoretical because this is a private site. The admins can set any standard they want (and change it at whim). They could decide tomorrow no pictures of blonds (or men for example which I wouldn't miss for one second) and that would be that.
Damn details ..................................................
kisses
willowfall
Now that isn't quite accurate, Crumera.
Actually, we do permit people to express their opinions but when things become intemperate we may close threads in order to allow people chance to calm down. There are all kinds of discussions taking place on this site that have nothing whatsoever to do with either crux or BDSM. If we deleted all of them then there would be trouble with a capital T.
The operative word is 'arguments', which are, as the wording suggests, no kind of spectator sport. While people are simply exchanging views or opinions we will permit a conversation to continue, once it descends into an argument we will preserve the peace even if we come under attack for 'censorship' or 'not permitting free speech' or whatever.
Challenging a view is not necessarily disrepectful or insulting. If I say that I believe the earth is flat and that I am offended by any images of a spherical earth I wouldn't really expect much support from moderators if you post an image of a sphere to support your own view.
Sacrilege is not necessarily an irrelevant topic for the site. We would uphold Wikk's right to state that he was offended by an image that Scarecrow published. But we would not seek to protect him from having that view challenged. But if the thing blows up into a full-blown row, then that will indeed drive people away, and that's when we start doing unpopular things like closing threads or banning people. It has nothing whatsoever to do with limiting anyone's 'free speech'.
wikk
Magistrate
I cannot afford deeper philosophical and religious discussions. My English is too weak. And I don't have time for that.
Thank you Crumera for your words, for your opinion. It hits the nail on the head.
Many works Scarecrow I like a lot and they are simply fascinating to me. More then you think.
But sometimes there is a situation when something offends me or many others in my opinion. I'm not questioning the rights of Scarecrow to show what he's thinking. But then I also have the right to tell him: I do not agree with you, you insult many people. His law and my right.
But I remember how this forum was set up because I've been here from the very beginning. It was not supposed to concern religious matters. Or offending anyone's feelings. History, bdsm, fantasy world, exchange of experiences etc. also fantasies with a blasphemous aspects. I'm also close to them. But where are the fantasies when it comes to directly degrading what thousands of people around the world believe?
Not I'm in the wrong place ... Jolly ... His law and the my ... it's simple.
Thank you Crumera for your words, for your opinion. It hits the nail on the head.
Many works Scarecrow I like a lot and they are simply fascinating to me. More then you think.
But sometimes there is a situation when something offends me or many others in my opinion. I'm not questioning the rights of Scarecrow to show what he's thinking. But then I also have the right to tell him: I do not agree with you, you insult many people. His law and my right.
But I remember how this forum was set up because I've been here from the very beginning. It was not supposed to concern religious matters. Or offending anyone's feelings. History, bdsm, fantasy world, exchange of experiences etc. also fantasies with a blasphemous aspects. I'm also close to them. But where are the fantasies when it comes to directly degrading what thousands of people around the world believe?
Not I'm in the wrong place ... Jolly ... His law and the my ... it's simple.