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poem21045 said:
[..] none of us would like to see our own 16-18 year-old daughters naked and spanked by some drooling sexagenarian. [..]
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A strict interpretation of your position would be that as soon as she's 18 yo + 1 day the aforementioned spanking is fine. Reductio ad absurdum, I know. :)

poem21045 said:
But it doesn't mean the fantasy is in the realm of socially acceptable behavior.
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I strongly disgree here. Any fantasy, regardless as sick, it's fine in my book as long as it stays fantasy.
 
doe1971 said:
A strict interpretation of your position would be that as soon as she's 18 yo + 1 day the aforementioned spanking is fine. Reductio ad absurdum, I know. :)



I strongly disgree here. Any fantasy, regardless as sick, it's fine in my book as long as it stays fantasy.
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I understand your point: if it's just in our head, what harm is it doing? And I agree with that.

But what does it say about that fantasy that we only reveal it to others who have similar thoughts? I would share my fantasies about being a PGA Tour pro or a world-famous author or even having sex with Selena Gomez with just about anyone (except Selena Gomez, I suppose!). But I carefully guard my CF fantasies (as I imagine we all do). It doesn't just mean they're not "socially acceptable"--it means they're somehow not acceptable to us, or at least to a part of us. And that's fine if we can live with them. But we should also recognize that they're not in the norm.
 
poem21045 said:
I see your point, Lox, but I also know that many of us find ways to rationalize our subterranean impulses. I'm sure that none of us would like to see our own 16-18 year-old daughters naked and spanked by some drooling sexagenarian. I know most folks on CF disagree with me on these points, but how many of us are willing to go public, are willing to unmask and say who we are in RL? And doesn't that inclination point to the aberrant nature of the whole deal here? To say that morality is "elastic" as doe1971 claims, is to fall into the easy trap of situational ethics in extremis, where judgement is reserved if it's too inconvenient to face. And I'm not saying that doe1971 doesn't have a good point in his psychological argument (that fantasy can substitute for more harmful actions). But it doesn't mean the fantasy is in the realm of socially acceptable behavior.

BTW, I'm very happy that folks are engaging me in this discussion. I think it's kind of the elephant in the CF room that no one wants to face. But I think we're all better for confronting it, notwithstanding our differences of opinion. And I respect all opinions here; CFers are very intelligent and eloquent in their opinions.
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I am far from confident that all of us if, say, we were billionaires with a private island in a country where we could buy the complicity of the local authorities and maintain anonymity, would behave like candidates for sainthood...
 
poem21045 said:
But I carefully guard my CF fantasies (as I imagine we all do). It doesn't just mean they're not "socially acceptable"--it means they're somehow not acceptable to us, or at least to a part of us. And that's fine if we can live with them. But we should also recognize that they're not in the norm.
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Really? I thought that exactly the point with CF, to express yourself free of societal constraints. But each tool can be used differently by different users, I guess.
 
poem21045 said:
I meant that we keep our participation on this website private from our contacts in RL. I.e., what happens at CF, stays at CF.
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That's true but so did the gay people till 90s. Sado-masochism is something you're born with, not a choice. Many of us would have preferred maybe to be born a normie, I know I do. I'm sure that's going to be a time maybe in my lifetime when the stigma will be removed for resposable members of our community. Probably pedophiles, as well, if they keep to their fantasies and don't touch any juvenile ever.

Or the immigrant muslim minority with its higher natality will become the new majorities in their adoptive countries and we will all go into hiding for half a millenium. No one knows.
 
doe1971 said:
That's true but so did the gay people till 90s. Sado-masochism is something you're born with, not a choice. Many of us would have preferred maybe to be born a normie, I know I do. I'm sure that's going to be a time maybe in my lifetime when the stigma will be removed for resposable members of our community. Probably pedophiles, as well, if they keep to their fantasies and don't touch any juvenile ever.

Or the immigrant muslim minority with its higher natality will become the new majorities in their adoptive countries and we will all go into hiding for half a millenium. No one knows.
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An interesting theory, doe! Do you know of any clinical studies that support this idea? Myself, I would tend to disagree with it. I'm not saying it might not be true, but my experience is that it's a learned behavior, most likely due to early exposure to things like the Catholic church's glorification of suffering.
Note to moderators: we've gone far afield from this thread's topic. Should we be in Coffee House, or somewhere else?
 
Fossy said:
When trying to 'judge' ourselves, maybe we should cut ourselves a little more slack and take note of the brave @Yupar 's signature script ...

“WE NEVER LOSE OUR DEMONS,​

WE ONLY LEARN TO LIVE ABOVE THEM.”​


I think, for a variety of reasons, this sentiment could apply to most people in the known world ...

​

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My fav Ancient One's quote in Doctor Strange :) <3
 
poem21045 said:
Do you know of any clinical studies that support this idea?
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How would you devise a study like that? Using brothel twins? :)

poem21045 said:
[..] my experience is that it's a learned behavior, most likely due to early exposure to things like the Catholic church's glorification of suffering.
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I can make the case that SM practices are (much like homosexuality) evenly distributed among humankind, many tribes having nothing to do with catholicism, the religion of suffering. In my case it's pretty easy to spot it ... my erect-o-meter is rather lethargic at most forms of porn but becomes hyper when visualising pain (or the perception of it). Nothing to do with the cognitive areas of my brain and frankly a curse to me, which require a lot more work for mating selection in my early years of my life.

Neurologically it's been shown quite a few times now that the cortex areas occupied by erotic pleasure (there are more dedicated to other form of pleasures) and pain processors while distinct, share a neurologic pathway to the cervical spine. So, in laymen words, most likely SM people have a defective insulation between two very distinct circuits. Evolutionaly, the SM trait is a deleterious one, love of pain both damage the social cohesion of the tribe and go against the grain of the self-preservation instinct. But so is homosexuality, and we still have 8-12% gay population at any given time/location.

poem21045 said:
Note to moderators: we've gone far afield from this thread's topic. Should we be in Coffee House, or somewhere else?
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Is that an anal retentive trait? :D Every little thing in its little box? Variety is the spice of life they say. Besides, I don't have the time to watch more than this section, if it's gone, it's gone.
 
JacksonSG1 said:
Apologies. Look, I have a Jewish friend who in the past 4 years or so has had to deal with more anti-Semetic crap than ever before in his 30 years on this planet and as his friend, it's made me sensitive.
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He should expect more crap in the future, no less. Reason being that all the latest waves of migration in the West are made of people who hate Jews. That's the way it is.

On-topic, a movie I've seen recently has an decent forced nudity scene. 'L'amour violé' (FR-1978). https://www73.zippyshare.com/v/NEFOJqvc/file.html

vcap2_02167.jpg
 
doe1971 said:
He should expect more crap in the future, no less. Reason being that all the latest waves of migration in the West are made of people who hate Jews. That's the way it is.

On-topic, a movie I've seen recently has an decent forced nudity scene. 'L'amour violé' (FR-1978). https://www73.zippyshare.com/v/NEFOJqvc/file.html

View attachment 1057165
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So white people? Because after reading your response last night, I asked him. It was white guys all but one time I was told. One of those racist white guys was a Q Anon-er coworker who was trying to convince everyone that Jewish people, including Lenny, drink the blood of children and dip Passover bread in them before selling the dead bodies to McDonald's to make burger meat. Even circulated the video alleging this shit around the office. I actually hadn't heard that part of the story before. That's what they're up against. So yeah as mentioned, there is some pretty wild stuff on this site and not all of it's for everybody, but I'm not going to get too apologetic about standing up for my friend.

And now, back to enjoying strip searches.
 
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