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Loinclothslave
slave to the whip
Kangaroos eating out the paddocks and making themselves into road hazards is a bigger problem than the skunks (or possums) living in the house frame around here…For Kathy's peace of mind, I suggest that none of us who actually own homes talk about all the joys of home-ownership.
It is after all, wonderful to own a home. It's the roof, windows, floors, walls, kitchen countertops, gutters, and the skunks living under the front porch that I don't like.
Praefectus Praetorio
R.I.P. Brother of the Quill
A simple Climate/Earth Science question.
"The melting of Arctic sea-ice is causing the ocean levels to rise."
True of False?
"The melting of Arctic sea-ice is causing the ocean levels to rise."
True of False?
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montycrusto
Guest
I’m always highly suspicious when you post things like this.
Praefectus Praetorio
R.I.P. Brother of the Quill
It is a simple, straightforward question. No tricks involved. However, science is important in the answer.I’m always highly suspicious when you post things like this.
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montycrusto
Guest
I doubt that very much!
Loxuru
Graf von Kreuzigung
False. Has to do with Archimdes and his bathtub, and the fact that continental ice sheets and glaciers interrupt the water cycle, by preventing water from returning to the sea again, after it has precipitated (as snow usually). Hence, a deficit in the water cycle, so the sea level lowers. Arctic ice is frozen sea water.
Praefectus Praetorio
R.I.P. Brother of the Quill
See belowI doubt that very much!
Correct. The melting of ice (glaciers) on land may raise sea level; the melting of sea-ice cannot. If the entire artic sea-ice melted tomorrow, it would not raise sea level a millimeter!
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montycrusto
Guest
A bit of an oversimplification though. The breakup of large ice-shelves such as “Larsen-B”, while not directly raising sea level on its own, leads to increased melting and “calving” of glaciers, which does.
Furthermore.. sea ice reflects a lot of the sun’s energy; without the ice, the much darker sea water absorbs much more of it, and becomes warmer. This does (very slightly) increase its volume, as well as having knock-on effects on any ice still perched on nearby land masses.
So.. no, but also yes. It’s not that simple!
“If the entire artic sea-ice melted tomorrow, it would not raise sea level a millimeter!” - this is not correct
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This is a bit worrying:A bit of an oversimplification though. The breakup of large ice-shelves such as “Larsen-B”, while not directly raising sea level on its own, leads to increased melting and “calving” of glaciers, which does.
Furthermore.. sea ice reflects a lot of the sun’s energy; without the ice, the much darker sea water absorbs much more of it, and becomes warmer. This does (very slightly) increase its volume, as well as having knock-on effects on any ice still perched on nearby land masses.
So.. no, but also yes. It’s not that simple!
“If the entire artic sea-ice melted tomorrow, it would not raise sea level a millimeter!” - this is not correct
The warmer, saltier water from the Atlantic has been getting into the Arctic longer than has been supposed, since the start of the last century. This lies behind the current, very rapid, warming of the Arctic, with the knock-on effects Monty mentions (notably melting of the Greenland ice-sheet, which will certainly raise sea-levels), also melting of permafrost in the tundra which will release masses of methane greatly accelerating global warming - but also the vertical rotation of warm and cold sea-water that drives the Gulf Stream/ N Atlantic Drift is slowing down - with possibly negative (cooling) effects on the climate of Britain and our neighbours.
As to whether this has been caused by natural cyclic patterns, the ending of the 'little ice age', or by the burning of coal in Europe and America in the 19th century, the scientists can't say, but it's certainly not a reason to go on burning fossil fuels.
Hugin&Munin
Presenter Of Images
Katie is lucky that the number of kangaroos in Canada is relatively low.
The sea ice will not raise the sea level very much, but as soon as the freshwater ice mass in Greenland and Antarctica melts the sea level will rise significantly, which will mean huge problems for countries like the Netherlands and several Pacific states, as they are already at sea level or even today still lie below.
Naraku
Draconarius
Sounds like my house except for the skunks. I'll see your skunks and raise you termites. You also left out lawn maintenance. And then there's the taxes, utilities, insurance...For Kathy's peace of mind, I suggest that none of us who actually own homes talk about all the joys of home-ownership.
It is after all, wonderful to own a home. It's the roof, windows, floors, walls, kitchen countertops, gutters, and the skunks living under the front porch that I don't like.
I concede the point on termites. Much more troublesome than skunks. As to lawn maintenance, I was clever and bought a place with a very small yard/garden, but which has a city maintained park across the street. I have very little lawn to maintain.Sounds like my house except for the skunks. I'll see your skunks and raise you termites. You also left out lawn maintenance. And then there's the taxes, utilities, insurance...
Hugin&Munin
Presenter Of Images
If there are termites there, you should try to make friends with the termite queen. Maybe she forbids her subjects to eat your table or your floor.I concede the point on termites. Much more troublesome than skunks. As to lawn maintenance, I was clever and bought a place with a very small yard/garden, but which has a city maintained park across the street. I have very little lawn to maintain.
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montycrusto
Guest
Perhaps the termites will overthrow their Queen and declare themselves a democratic republic! Liberté! Égalité! Termité!
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montycrusto
Guest
Just on the sea-ice thing.... @Praefectus Praetorio is right that sea ice melting will not in itself raise sea level, just as a melting ice cube will not raise the surface level in a glass of water.. but the Arctic environment is not a glass of water; it is a complex system, there are knock-on effects and feedback loops which are excluded from such a simple model, but are nevertheless very real and very alarming. So…. I just hope this was a harmless physics question and not an attempt to downplay the dangers of global heating by over-simplifying the science. That’s why I smelled a rat! Or it might have been a squirrel..
Or it might have been a squirrel..
Hugin&Munin
Presenter Of Images
No, I think it was a simple physical question and the salt water sea ice would not be able to raise the sea level because it displaces as much water as it weighs and it would not increase the total volume of the system. The ice that rests on the mainland would actually increase the total volume when melted.Just on the sea-ice thing.... @Praefectus Praetorio is right that sea ice melting will not in itself raise sea level, just as a melting ice cube will not raise the surface level in a glass of water.. but the Arctic environment is not a glass of water; it is a complex system, there are knock-on effects and feedback loops which are excluded from such a simple model, but are nevertheless very real and very alarming. So…. I just hope this was a harmless physics question and not an attempt to downplay the dangers of global heating by over-simplifying the science. That’s why I smelled a rat!
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montycrusto
Guest
What’s really fascinating (to me anyway) is that water is one of the few known liquids which expands on freezing, so that ice is less dense than water, and floats. (Most other liquids, the “frozen” form sinks in the liquid form).
Loinclothslave
slave to the whip
Water is a unique compound in a huge variety of ways. One thing I find fascinating is it’s technically the best solvent known. Other solvents certainly work faster on a variety of substances but given enough time water can dissolve nearly anything. Of course, talking from a geological perspective, it’s quick…
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montycrusto
Guest
It really is a very surprising substance. And then there’s its weird off-balance electrical charge that allows insects to walk on its surface like Jesus.. no wonder it’s called Aitch Two Whoa
