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the crucifiers?

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I wound agree that women (generally) are more prone to alleviate suffering and to think on a communal level. I think a good deal of that is biological hardwiring (after all we do bear the biggest burden in propagating the species) but I think part of it may also have been societal. Generally (until modern times in the west) most women were on a lower rung of the ladder than men. When you have been in a group that is "oppressed" (I hate using that word here because of it's idiotic modern connotation) it is easier for you to sympathize with others in bad situations.

Throughout history those who lived in the service of others (for no reward) have always been noticed. But I think they get noticed because they are the exception not the rule.

kisses

Willowfall
I know it's off-topic, and please excuse my naivity, but what do you mean by the idiotic modern connotation of the word "oppressed"? It's probably really obvious what you mean, but I just don't think I know this connotation, unless you are referring to those who claim to be oppressed from every least little thing...?
 
I wound agree that women (generally) are more prone to alleviate suffering and to think on a communal level. I think a good deal of that is biological hardwiring (after all we do bear the biggest burden in propagating the species) but I think part of it may also have been societal. Generally (until modern times in the west) most women were on a lower rung of the ladder than men. When you have been in a group that is "oppressed" (I hate using that word here because of it's idiotic modern connotation) it is easier for you to sympathize with others in bad situations.

Throughout history those who lived in the service of others (for no reward) have always been noticed. But I think they get noticed because they are the exception not the rule.

kisses

Willowfall
Yes, I think some of us do simply get some feeling of fulfilment from just 'serving', helping people who we can help - I say that from my own experience, not claiming any sort of pious virtue, it's the way some of us are, perhaps even 'natural slaves' :) - perhaps more often women, though some men too. And it's always impossible to sort out nature (biology, genes, etc.) from nurture (social influences) - it can be tough in a society where assertiveness, competitiveness, 'leadership qualities' are so highly valued.
 
I know it's off-topic, and please excuse my naivity, but what do you mean by the idiotic modern connotation of the word "oppressed"? It's probably really obvious what you mean, but I just don't think I know this connotation, unless you are referring to those who claim to be oppressed from every least little thing...?

Got it in one CL.

The unfortunate misuse of words with power meanings is that you dilute the real meaning of the word. For example an athlete about to participate in some game saying 'I'm prepared to go to war with my teammates!' The last time any "game" resembled war was the combat tournaments of the middle ages and even those were extremely limited examples.

Kisses

willowfall
 
In most Roman literature you can find an appreciation for sympathy but almost never for empathy. There was a reason why the first Christians in the Roman Empire were mostly slaves and women: they were oppressed, they didn't count. And suddenly here was a religion that told them they mattered. In fact, Christianity preaches empathy, to think and feel along with the victims. The Romans at first didn't understand that. They went to the circus to steel themselves, to learn how not to become ill when watching suffering. And now they had to imagine how it must feel to suffer? Opposition to Christianity was quite large at first.
By the way, this does not mean the Romans were perverts who loved to torture, on the contrary. There were a lot of rules about sexuality, public indecency and immorality. Public sexual torture was definitely not a thing. At least literature never speaks of it, as far as I know.
 
Martial, De Spectaculis, is pretty explicit - e.g. the re-enactments of Pasiphae being fucked by a bull.
Not to mention that Apuleius' uhh lyrico-animalistic hero was supposed to play a leading role in a spectacular execution along those lines. :b2: Seneca's alii per obscena stipitem egerunt leave little room for doubt as well.
 
Martial, De Spectaculis, is pretty explicit - e.g. the re-enactments of Pasiphae being fucked by a bull.

Interestingly the Roman's may not have thought of that as perverse sexual torture (extreme BDSM) for the sake of torture but as a realistic recreation of classical theater.

Think MacBeth with the actors playing the parts really getting murdered.

We don't ever realize how radically different those who came before us were in their thinking. How many times have one of said (or been said about) 'You're an old person.' because they said something that doesn't resonate with us. And that's what? 3 generations ago at most?

kisses

willowfall
 
Got it in one CL.

The unfortunate misuse of words with power meanings is that you dilute the real meaning of the word. For example an athlete about to participate in some game saying 'I'm prepared to go to war with my teammates!' The last time any "game" resembled war was the combat tournaments of the middle ages and even those were extremely limited examples.

Kisses

willowfall
Ah!! I get it now. So it's a form of hyperbole. Because in the example of oppression, like they even understand the word, they have probably never experienced anything like it. Thank you, Widowfall. Much appreciated!!
 
En la vida real los verdugos eran crueles y sádicos (por deber y/o placer). Pero en mi fantasía personal de ser crucificado, me gusta que mi o mis verdugos sean amables, algo así como: "Déjame ayudarte a apoyarte en la cruz, te la clavamos enseguida".
EsI agree with you, I really like to crucify a beautiful woman and I do not feel cruel or sadistic it is more I love to see the expression of the condemned and if it is possible to emphasize with her and that the trance of the execution is the least "dolorosa" posible
 
To go back to the original point... sadism doesn't come easy to me, so when I play such a character, I tend towards the "just a job" approach. However, it's natural that my attitude will be altered by the nature and sympatheticness of the one to be crucified. Still, I will carry out my task... I just might feel better or worse about it.
 
One may also argue that not the Roman elite formations are involved in the crucifixion stuff, but only formations which were recruited in some kind "lower level of societies". I once learned that the formations of the Waffen-SS who were responsible for the German war crimes were exclusively recruited from former civil police officers, while "normal" Waffen-SS or Wehrmacht units were not commanded to such duties. So the Romans probably also brutalised some units for such tasks.
 
I do not know anything about Roman history, so these are really my two cents.

First of all, life and, above all, death in ancient times were surely much more grisly than nowadays. In war, people had to stub a sword in somebody's else guts and rotate it so as to inflict maximum damage to his internal organs. Common injuries were chopped hands, or legs, with resulted in death by gangrene in a few day. Not a nice way to die.

So, crucifixion, was designed to be an horrible and tortuous way to die, much bloodier and gorier with respect even to those standards. I always say that crucifixion was not being condemned to death, but being condemned to be tortured to death.

Moreover, If we refer to the only detailed account of crucifixion that we have, it seems to me that it was carried out with sadistic pleasure. I mean, the mob shouting "crucify" could just have stayed silent or asked for all the criminals to be released. But they wanted to see a man put to a bloody cruel death. When the soldiers used the crown of thorns, or spitted, they did it out because they hated the victim and wanted to enjoy their sadistic pleasure by inflicting torture and abuse.

This is not surprising to me. Sometimes men who, taken singularly, would behave perfectly well, when instead are in particular situations and/or groups. take the worst out of them. They let themselves go to their lowest instincts, sure that they will get away with it.

When having a girl in their hands, well, I get shivers at what they could do with her. There are reports from the second world war, where group rapes and killing of the girls in conquered villages where just considered as "rites of initiation" for the younger recruits.

Of course, during hundreds of years there could people carrying out the job of crucifying a guy or a girl just as an unpleasant task, to be carried out in a detached and professional manner. But I tend to say that, given the intention of the crucifixion itself, to a be hideous and spectatularized way to put people to death, and the nature of men in these situation, that a great amount of them has been carried out with additional sadistic tortures to the victim, just for the pleasure of doing it.
 
Espero que els meus botxins gaudeixin de cada segon del procés que implica la meva crucifixió.
I know some Dóminas that enjoy make suffer me and can distance emotionaly to be good executioners. Ideal to test your limits
 
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