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The importance of humiliation

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Barefoot Bondmaid

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One thing that is striking in the academic literature on medieval slave purchasing manuals (mostly from the Arab slave trade), e.g. https://sci-hub.se/10.1163/2405836X-00402004
emphasizes the importance of humiliating the slave at the point of sale.
In other words, the humiliation - which might at first glance look gratuitous - served an important purpose, mostly to reinforce slave mentality and to “instill an attitude of subservience towards the new owner.”
What do you think about this?
 
Lascap said:
One thing that is striking in the academic literature on medieval slave purchasing manuals (mostly from the Arab slave trade), e.g. https://sci-hub.se/10.1163/2405836X-00402004
emphasizes the importance of humiliating the slave at the point of sale.
In other words, the humiliation - which might at first glance look gratuitous - served an important purpose, mostly to reinforce slave mentality and to “instill an attitude of subservience towards the new owner.”
What do you think about this?
Click to expand...
I could answer, but I will not because of its political implication. However, one point: There are individual differences, some people you can break, some will just kill you if you try, but luckily they are seldom.
 
dfg42 said:
I could answer, but I will not because of its political implication. However, one point: There are individual differences, some people you can break, some will just kill you if you try, but luckily they are seldom.
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Well, those are ideally winnowed out before the point of sale. Always a few misses, though...

(As a side note, though not exactly the same, this topic does seem to resonate with a thread I started the other day over in Fantasy Unlimited. (It's never quite clear where to put these things...) While the "tests" I'm gathering there are at least nominally about obedience, they do also often come with a high humiliation factor, because that helps create the needed instinct to disobey. So there's some "breaking" built in!
 
Lascap said:
One thing that is striking in the academic literature on medieval slave purchasing manuals (mostly from the Arab slave trade), e.g. https://sci-hub.se/10.1163/2405836X-00402004
emphasizes the importance of humiliating the slave at the point of sale.
In other words, the humiliation - which might at first glance look gratuitous - served an important purpose, mostly to reinforce slave mentality and to “instill an attitude of subservience towards the new owner.”
What do you think about this?
Click to expand...
I think humiliation is a vital piece of the puzzle in training a good slave. The idea is to reduce their own self worth so low as to prevent them even thinking beyond their lowly status. To become property and subject to the will of its owner the slave must feel beneath its master and it’s betters.

So I do think humiliating slaves at market is a great idea so it cheapens their worth in their own estimation. I feel raping slave girls in public helps break their self esteem. For us male slaves, anal rape is even more humiliating and degrading so should be done shortly after purchase.

I believe you want me feeling shame, humiliation, and with very low esteem so I more willing accept your collar, your chains, your complete ownership and your whip. I’m a firm believer that harsh treatment early is critical. As a slave I highly approve of a public whipping and sexual degradation before I am sold to ensure my utter feeling of worthlessness

Similarly, where practical, all punishments should be conducted in public. Naked or near naked (I actually feel a dirty loincloth is far more degrading than naked) is essential at all times but particularly when punished
 
Lascap said:
One thing that is striking in the academic literature on medieval slave purchasing manuals (mostly from the Arab slave trade), e.g. https://sci-hub.se/10.1163/2405836X-00402004
emphasizes the importance of humiliating the slave at the point of sale.
In other words, the humiliation - which might at first glance look gratuitous - served an important purpose, mostly to reinforce slave mentality and to “instill an attitude of subservience towards the new owner.”
What do you think about this?
Click to expand...
I always enjoyed the idea of my worthlessness as a whore and it thrilled me to consider myself worthy of no respect at all. I fantasised that I would be handed out or given to whoever my Master saw fit to share me with and used by them without regard to giving me back in any particular condition. I would have no say in who or what I suffered, of course, and the thought that I might be hired, to make money for my Master, made me feel like such a whore it had me dripping in lust. The essential thing here is that the fantasy is mine and the whole point of it is to make me feel worthless. My worthlessness was always reinforced by the threat of punishment if I didn't perform satisfactorily and I'd be flawlessly obedient, coerced entirely by negative incentives.

Then, I met someone who I offered myself to. I discovered I was proud to be owned by him and he was proud to own me. We talked about the possibility of sharing me and he was anxious to feel that whoever he chose to share me with would look after me. It transpired that the man who might take me considers that my worthlessness is a problem. His view is that I should try to make whoever I'm subservient to pleased with me by performing to the best of my ability. I should seek to impress my Master. I'll be a much more useful slave if appreciate the joy in my subservience and treat that as a positive incentive to please.

It matters how I'm humiliated. As a slave, I have no choice. It's entirely at my Master's discretion to humiliate me in such a way that it both thrills me and satisfies him. He does this by managing the system of threat and dread which keeps me in my place. I know, I will be punished. Not for any particular offence but because punishment reminds me of my worth. The punishment I crave as my Master's attention is not the same as that administered if I fuck up. I love the threat of his pleasure, and I dread his displeasure, both because of the physical discomfort it might bring, and the awful guilt and remorse I'm crushed by if I really piss him off.
 
Loinclothslave1 said:
I think humiliation is a vital piece of the puzzle in training a good slave. The idea is to reduce their own self worth so low as to prevent them even thinking beyond their lowly status. To become property and subject to the will of its owner the slave must feel beneath its master and it’s betters.

So I do think humiliating slaves at market is a great idea so it cheapens their worth in their own estimation. I feel raping slave girls in public helps break their self esteem. For us male slaves, anal rape is even more humiliating and degrading so should be done shortly after purchase.

I believe you want me feeling shame, humiliation, and with very low esteem so I more willing accept your collar, your chains, your complete ownership and your whip. I’m a firm believer that harsh treatment early is critical. As a slave I highly approve of a public whipping and sexual degradation before I am sold to ensure my utter feeling of worthlessness

Similarly, where practical, all punishments should be conducted in public. Naked or near naked (I actually feel a dirty loincloth is far more degrading than naked) is essential at all times but particularly when punished
Click to expand...
Do you think your sexual degradation in the market place is used to demonstrate your worth as worthless to your new owner? Whether you're degraded or not isn't your choice of course. It must be demonstrated that you will accept it. Wouldn't you accept your new owner's collar because you want to? To be worth anything as a slave you should.

You feel a dirty loincloth is a greater degradation than being naked? Oh Wow! Yeah me too. I'd love to be handed over stripped to the same knickers I was captured in, however wrecked they were. I'd feel that they were all I had left and a last shred of dignity which might be taken from me at any time. I'd feel much more precarious like that. Do you?
 
GabriellaSivilla said:
The link to the manual seems not to be working. I would really like to read it. Could you plese check?
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Just briefly, re broken link: the reference is

Myrne, P. (2019). Slaves for pleasure in Arabic sex and slave purchase manuals from the tenth to the twelfth centuries. Journal of global slavery, 4(2), 196-225.

If you have no academic access, you can get it on scihub via the doi: 10.1163/2405836X-00402004

This paper is a review and primarily interesting because it collates so much source material (further references). The “journal of global slavery” (where this was published) might be of interest to people here in general.
 
Lascap said:
Just briefly, re broken link: the reference is

Myrne, P. (2019). Slaves for pleasure in Arabic sex and slave purchase manuals from the tenth to the twelfth centuries. Journal of global slavery, 4(2), 196-225.

If you have no academic access, you can get it on scihub via the doi: 10.1163/2405836X-00402004

This paper is a review and primarily interesting because it collates so much source material (further references). The “journal of global slavery” (where this was published) might be of interest to people here in general.
Click to expand...
Maybe it’s a regional issue, link worked for ma
 
Lascap said:
One thing that is striking in the academic literature on medieval slave purchasing manuals (mostly from the Arab slave trade), e.g. https://sci-hub.se/10.1163/2405836X-00402004
emphasizes the importance of humiliating the slave at the point of sale.
In other words, the humiliation - which might at first glance look gratuitous - served an important purpose, mostly to reinforce slave mentality and to “instill an attitude of subservience towards the new owner.”
What do you think about this?
Click to expand...
I just read the article in the link and found it necessary to fight like hell to subdue my modern feminist sensibilities. I tried to calm down and make a cup of tea half way through but my hands were trembling with rage and I spilt some of it on the way back to my computer. OK, I know, it's in a historical context! I'm fine. I'm breathing deeply and concentrating on the social development of humanity for the greater good in modern times. Please allow me one final outburst......
For fuck's sake, is this real? (!!!)
 
KurvyKate said:
Do you think your sexual degradation in the market place is used to demonstrate your worth as worthless to your new owner? Whether you're degraded or not isn't your choice of course. It must be demonstrated that you will accept it. Wouldn't you accept your new owner's collar because you want to? To be worth anything as a slave you should.

You feel a dirty loincloth is a greater degradation than being naked? Oh Wow! Yeah me too. I'd love to be handed over stripped to the same knickers I was captured in, however wrecked they were. I'd feel that they were all I had left and a last shred of dignity which might be taken from me at any time. I'd feel much more precarious like that. Do you?
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I fully agree with you. That's how I imagine it too, yes a dirty, short, torn and soiled loincloth with sweat, urine and semen and soon soiled with the bloody sweat of flogging.
For me, the loincloth must be brutally removed at the ultimate moment when the executioners want to reveal my balls and my cock to the public eager for these spectacles.
Being presented naked from the start takes away a certain appeal to the public.
 
KurvyKate said:
Do you think your sexual degradation in the market place is used to demonstrate your worth as worthless to your new owner? Whether you're degraded or not isn't your choice of course. It must be demonstrated that you will accept it. Wouldn't you accept your new owner's collar because you want to? To be worth anything as a slave you should.
Click to expand...
To be bent to someone’s Will such public humiliating degradation, IMO, makes utter acceptance of ones enslavement faster. If I believe all of society thinks I am worthless I am less likely to seek escape since not only my master thinks that but society does,


My public degradation removes the last shreds of dignity I have to regard my self and allowing me to believe I am sub-human. At that point I begin to lose all undesirable notions for a chattel slave, reduced self worth and low esteem makes me more ready to take the collar. Of course, for my non consensual slavery it must be forced upon me while my new owner gives me a taste of the whip. I’m at where you were, all about my worthlessness which drives my contentment with being owned.

I mean worthless as a human, good only for obeying my mistresses or master’s will, and accepting my punishments. Over time I begin to crave them.
KurvyKate said:
You feel a dirty loincloth is a greater degradation than being naked? Oh Wow! Yeah me too. I'd love to be handed over stripped to the same knickers I was captured in, however wrecked they were. I'd feel that they were all I had left and a last shred of dignity which might be taken from me at any time. I'd feel much more precarious like that. Do you?
Click to expand...
Absolutely I would. But for me the dirty loincloth marks me as a slave because a free person would prefer to be naked. They can claim then that their clothes were stolen at gunpoint or that they lost a bet. Only a slave is forced to wear its dirty loincloth because it’s dehumanising. Get it? :)
 
Loinclothslave1 said:
To be bent to someone’s Will such public humiliating degradation, IMO, makes utter acceptance of ones enslavement faster. If I believe all of society thinks I am worthless I am less likely to seek escape since not only my master thinks that but society does,


My public degradation removes the last shreds of dignity I have to regard my self and allowing me to believe I am sub-human. At that point I begin to lose all undesirable notions for a chattel slave, reduced self worth and low esteem makes me more ready to take the collar. Of course, for my non consensual slavery it must be forced upon me while my new owner gives me a taste of the whip. I’m at where you were, all about my worthlessness which drives my contentment with being owned.

I mean worthless as a human, good only for obeying my mistresses or master’s will, and accepting my punishments. Over time I begin to crave them.

Absolutely I would. But for me the dirty loincloth marks me as a slave because a free person would prefer to be naked. They can claim then that their clothes were stolen at gunpoint or that they lost a bet. Only a slave is forced to wear its dirty loincloth because it’s dehumanising. Get it? :)
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I do get it. I still think for me, clinging on to one last pair of dirty knickers as my last possession makes me vulnerable to the ultimate humiliation of losing them. My Master gives them to me as my "clothing", to be taken from me when I don't need to be covered. Also, they're used to hold discomforts against my sex organs. There lies a universe of perverse delights!
 
KurvyKate said:
I do get it. I still think for me, clinging on to one last pair of dirty knickers as my last possession makes me vulnerable to the ultimate humiliation of losing them. My Master gives them to me as my "clothing", to be taken from me when I don't need to be covered. Also, they're used to hold discomforts against my sex organs. There lies a universe of perverse delights!
Click to expand...
Who said anything about removing my filthy loincloth or your dirty knickers though? Fir us that’s part of the humiliation... in RL I’d be less embarrassed naked in public than especially if dirty, loincloth
 
Lascap said:
What do you think about this?
Click to expand...
Humiliation is part of any construction of a superior-subordinate power relationship. It is so at school, in work, in the army (particularly during training of recruits). Some justify it as a part of ‘character building’, necessary to eradicate unsuitable attitudes. It is part of ways to enforce obedience and discipline. Point is of course, that some people in a superior position, use it as a cheap way to protect their position, or simply because they have sociopath traits , and enjoy humiliating the subordinate. So, it is perfectly imaginable that a slave owner uses humiliation as part of a strategy to impress the slave obedience and suppress any sort of resistance or rebellion in the slave’s character.
 
Lascap said:
One thing that is striking in the academic literature on medieval slave purchasing manuals (mostly from the Arab slave trade), e.g. https://sci-hub.se/10.1163/2405836X-00402004
emphasizes the importance of humiliating the slave at the point of sale.
In other words, the humiliation - which might at first glance look gratuitous - served an important purpose, mostly to reinforce slave mentality and to “instill an attitude of subservience towards the new owner.”
What do you think about this?
Click to expand...

Very interesting article. I was especially fascinated by the fact that women deemed suitable as sex slaves due to their youth and beauty were distinguished, and often sold apart, from domestic slaves. I assumed that this only happened in my fantasies.

But although humiliation is a juicy part of this type of fantasy, I didn't see the article emphasizing this. Buyers were allowed to closely inspect a female slave prior to purchase so as to ensure a smooth business transaction. I'm sure slave sellers in those days didn't want to deal with returns from unhappy customers any more than a used car salesman of today.
 
Jackie1111 said:
Very interesting article. I was especially fascinated by the fact that women deemed suitable as sex slaves due to their youth and beauty were distinguished, and often sold apart, from domestic slaves. I assumed that this only happened in my fantasies.

But although humiliation is a juicy part of this type of fantasy, I didn't see the article emphasizing this. Buyers were allowed to closely inspect a female slave prior to purchase so as to ensure a smooth business transaction. I'm sure slave sellers in those days didn't want to deal with returns from unhappy customers any more than a used car salesman of today.
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Yes - in a way, isn't it more powerful, more succulent when the slave's humiliation is a mere by-product and not the goal? As if anyone cares about their emotions that much! They only want to know if their body is adequate (and even if it is, will probably paint it as lacking in hope of a discount). It's got nothing (and yet, everything) to do with the slave's feelings!
 
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