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The importance of humiliation

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Yes - in a way, isn't it more powerful, more succulent when the slave's humiliation is a mere by-product and not the goal? As if anyone cares about their emotions that much! They only want to know if their body is adequate (and even if it is, will probably paint it as lacking in hope of a discount). It's got nothing (and yet, everything) to do with the slave's feelings!
Yes to feelings! Go Go KageKamen. Almost none of what's been said so far has considered the slave's feelings. Why should it? Who gives a rat's corpse what the slave thinks. The reason this isn't mentioned in the Arabic manual is because it's not important. We're giving it importance because when we fantasise about role playing slaves, we concentrate on those missing feelings. Our erotic thrill of submission isn't and could never have been real. Being a real slave was horrible and being a sex slave is probably the least sexy thing ever, unless you only do it at the weekends.
 
Humiliation is part of any construction of a superior-subordinate power relationship. It is so at school, in work, in the army (particularly during training of recruits). Some justify it as a part of ‘character building’, necessary to eradicate unsuitable attitudes. It is part of ways to enforce obedience and discipline. Point is of course, that some people in a superior position, use it as a cheap way to protect their position, or simply because they have sociopath traits , and enjoy humiliating the subordinate. So, it is perfectly imaginable that a slave owner uses humiliation as part of a strategy to impress the slave obedience and suppress any sort of resistance or rebellion in the slave’s character.
Are we talking at the point of sale here? How about the possibility of a developing relationship between Master and slave, if both see a mutual advantage in that? Are talking simply about the slave trade as a commercial enterprise or the erotic interpretation of it we role play?
 
Yes - in a way, isn't it more powerful, more succulent when the slave's humiliation is a mere by-product and not the goal? As if anyone cares about their emotions that much! They only want to know if their body is adequate (and even if it is, will probably paint it as lacking in hope of a discount). It's got nothing (and yet, everything) to do with the slave's feelings!
Only if the masters are reptiloids. Some may enjoy the humiliation aspect of the slaves, some may be angry about it, because it deterates the efficiency of slavery (I would be that group), some may have pitty with their slaves (and write novels like Uncle Tom's cabin). I once stated at a history class: "If slavery would work, the south would have won the civil war, which would be better for all of us.", needles to say I did not get applause for that statement, probably because I said it in Europe, instead of Texas.
 
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Yes to feelings! Go Go KageKamen. Almost none of what's been said so far has considered the slave's feelings. Why should it? Who gives a rat's corpse what the slave thinks. The reason this isn't mentioned in the Arabic manual is because it's not important. We're giving it importance because when we fantasise about role playing slaves, we concentrate on those missing feelings. Our erotic thrill of submission isn't and could never have been real. Being a real slave was horrible and being a sex slave is probably the least sexy thing ever, unless you only do it at the weekends.
Well, isn't a lot of the power in the paradox? That they were considered mere things, their emotions irrelevant - but we know this isn't true? So we can tap into those emotions (even if our imagination of them is a paltry reflection of the reality).

(Not so interested in the "erotic thrill of submission", though. )

Only if the masters are reptiloids. Some may enjoy the humiliation aspect of the slaves, some may be angry about it, because it deterates the efficiency of slavery (I would be that group), some may have petty with their slaves (and write novels like Uncle Tom's cabin). I once stated at a history class: "If slavery would work, the south would have won the civil war, which would be better for all of us.", needles to say I did not get applause for that statement, probably because I said it in Europe, instead of Texas.
True - for all that slave feelings aren't supposed to be important save as they affect their work, we are a race which can empathise with animals and even appliances just as much as we are one who can close our hearts to our fellow humans. So the slave's feelings may well garner some reaction, be it shame, sympathy, frustration or sadistic pleasure.
 
Are we talking at the point of sale here? How about the possibility of a developing relationship between Master and slave, if both see a mutual advantage in that? Are talking simply about the slave trade as a commercial enterprise or the erotic interpretation of it we role play?
I was first of all reacting to the article, @Lascap referred to, which was obviously about real historical commercial slave trade. Roleplay is a different issue, of course, as all parties are consensual, and humiliation is part of the erotic game. The same for all other kinds of fantasy developed on this forum, where everyone can tailor ‘humiliation’ to her or his own desires, making it a source of excitement
 
Well, isn't a lot of the power in the paradox? That they were considered mere things, their emotions irrelevant - but we know this isn't true? So we can tap into those emotions (even if our imagination of them is a paltry reflection of the reality).

(Not so interested in the "erotic thrill of submission", though. )


True - for all that slave feelings aren't supposed to be important save as they affect their work, we are a race which can empathise with animals and even appliances just as much as we are one who can close our hearts to our fellow humans. So the slave's feelings may well garner some reaction, be it shame, sympathy, frustration or sadistic pleasure.
Not interested in the erotic thrill of submission? It's here where the power is indeed in the paradox, in the need to be enslaved and controlled.
 
@KurvyKate - it is probably unlikely that Myrne - one of the foremost scholars on this topic is just trolling us, no? She is also firmly in line with the rest of the scholarship in this topic. This kind of Islamic slavery is known for being more “consumptive” than “productive” in nature, with an average female to male ratio of 2:1, and sexual services being explicitly part of the arrangement. Given what else is posted on this very site and that this is - as far as I can tell - historical, what makes it so upsetting, specifically?
 
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@KurvyKate - it is probably unlikely that Myrne - one of the foremost scholars on this topic is just trolling us, no? She is also firmly in line with the rest of the scholarship in this topic. This kind of Islamic slavery is known for being more “consumptive” than “productive” in nature, with an average female to male ratio of 2:1, and sexual services being explicitly part of the arrangement. Given what else is posted on this very site and that this is - as far as I can tell - historical, what makes it so upsetting, specifically?
Specifically, humanity's patriarchies are based on thinking like this and in the West we have of course made good progress in extricating ourselves from the dark ages. However, there are places on the planet where women are still enslaved socially and reading the article, historically correct or not, is a reminder of that. Posting the link on CF, where we enjoy slavery as an erotic fantasy, feels a little like making it too real. I'm not complaining, I'm suffering from a raw nerve!
 
Not interested in the erotic thrill of submission? It's here where the power is indeed in the paradox, in the need to be enslaved and controlled.
Well, perhaps for you who come at it from that end. As either a master or observer myself, I don't expect slaves to either need nor want to be controlled - but that matters not.

Specifically, humanity's patriarchies are based on thinking like this and in the West we have of course made good progress in extricating ourselves from the dark ages. However, there are places on the planet where women are still enslaved socially and reading the article, historically correct or not, is a reminder of that. Posting the link on CF, where we enjoy slavery as an erotic fantasy, feels a little like making it too real. I'm not complaining, I'm suffering from a raw nerve!
Different people approach the whole gender issue differently. I've seen women here on CF who fantasise about regimes far more patriarchal and misogynist than can be easily found in history - but that presumably fills some need of theirs to be dominated and degraded without hope of anything more.
 
Well, perhaps for you who come at it from that end. As either a master or observer myself, I don't expect slaves to either need nor want to be controlled - but that matters not.


Different people approach the whole gender issue differently. I've seen women here on CF who fantasise about regimes far more patriarchal and misogynist than can be easily found in history - but that presumably fills some need of theirs to be dominated and degraded without hope of anything more.
They do and it does. That's a fantasy and we invent the bits we like while ignoring any inconvenient implications. It's a happy, fun thing to do and doesn't really have a parallel with real life. The fantasy doesn't have a gender issue beyond our sexual preferences. Yes I do come at it from that end and I'll admit that from here it's the slave who drives the fantasy, that's the paradox.
 
They do and it does. That's a fantasy and we invent the bits we like while ignoring any inconvenient implications. It's a happy, fun thing to do and doesn't really have a parallel with real life. The fantasy doesn't have a gender issue beyond our sexual preferences. Yes I do come at it from that end and I'll admit that from here it's the slave who drives the fantasy, that's the paradox.
Well some people also like to tap into the historical sense more, while others prefer to steer well clear of it, or pick and choose parts. But in the end, it is all a game (unless you're unlucky enough to fall in with all the wrong people).
 
That is a very good point. Someone can very much *more* “look the part” *not* being fully naked. Because anyone can be naked, particularly when pursuing sex-related activities. But few would wear rags, slave shifts or burlap cloth unlike they actually are a slave. So yes, this makes a lot of sense.

To be bent to someone’s Will such public humiliating degradation, IMO, makes utter acceptance of ones enslavement faster. If I believe all of society thinks I am worthless I am less likely to seek escape since not only my master thinks that but society does,


My public degradation removes the last shreds of dignity I have to regard my self and allowing me to believe I am sub-human. At that point I begin to lose all undesirable notions for a chattel slave, reduced self worth and low esteem makes me more ready to take the collar. Of course, for my non consensual slavery it must be forced upon me while my new owner gives me a taste of the whip. I’m at where you were, all about my worthlessness which drives my contentment with being owned.

I mean worthless as a human, good only for obeying my mistresses or master’s will, and accepting my punishments. Over time I begin to crave them.

Absolutely I would. But for me the dirty loincloth marks me as a slave because a free person would prefer to be naked. They can claim then that their clothes were stolen at gunpoint or that they lost a bet. Only a slave is forced to wear its dirty loincloth because it’s dehumanising. Get it? :)
 
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