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Discussion about A.I.

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I think that'd depend on specific requirements - not every image has to look exactly like a photograph.

But it's probably safe to say that there are many ways to incorporate AI into your Blender workflow.
As I‘ve written before. AI isn‘t ready. And again, I‘m not against AI.

You lost a lot of details and got a blurrier image, like a mobile photo. Make another scene with the same character, another angle, and you get a different character with different details. As long as you aren‘t able to cache the base in the AI model, you get wrong results due to the tech behind. At the moment, it is pure bruteforcing by a seedvalue. It might change with SDXL 3.0 and if all params are accessible.
 
You lost a lot of details and got a blurrier image, like a mobile photo. Make another scene with the same character, another angle, and you get a different character with different details. As long as you aren‘t able to cache the base in the AI model, you get wrong results due to the tech behind. At the moment, it is pure bruteforcing by a seedvalue. It might change with SDXL 3.0 and if all params are accessible.

I could have used a tiled upsampling workflow if I wanted to keep all the details, which would require me to use a cloud service and a bit more time instead of generating it on my RTX3080 within a few minutes.

Of course, you lose a lot of details if you downsample a 4K image to just 1k. But that wasn't the point I tried to make. Rather, it was the difference in lighting that made the original less photorealistic than the AI-processed one. Compare certain areas, like the specular highlights (or lack thereof, which makes it look a bit "rubbery") in the nose area. Those are what contribute to the feeling that convinces you that it's not a real photograph. You cannot eliminate such flaws by rendering them in a higher resolution.

I know that you are not against AI, and I don't intend to "sell" AI to anyone as some sort of a silver bullet either. I'm just pointing out that some of the assumptions you have about AI might be outdated, like what you just said of AI's inability to render consistent characters, for example:

 
The render was straight out of the file.
No post production.(One part of my day job is situated very close to the printing industry).

I am very sure that you‘re miles ahead concerning Ai, while not far from me stands a „Heidelberger Zylinder“ from a different era.

You need a lot of effort to fix details like the messed up liplines, and to reanimate the dead eyes in your result. Maybe a good idea to post the raw.

While I need a lot effort to kill too harsh skin details, bring in vector data to get motion blurs, etc.

There are two ends which will work hand in hand for sure.Not now but sooner or later. I can‘t show you my work without unhiding my identity. Believe me, I have invested way too much into this tech.

Instead of playing with AI, I will work on the Insex special chastity belt the next evenings. P D was so kind to give me some hints and sketches, so at least this device will be very photoreal :)
 
You need a lot of effort to fix details like the messed up liplines, and to reanimate the dead eyes in your result. Maybe a good idea to post the raw.
Yeah, that's for sure. While I don't have too much to complain about AI's ability to approach photorealism, it never stopped frustrating me with its persistence in depicting deformed figures. That's a problem I hope SD 3.0 can mitigate.

By the way, the images I posted above were all raw output. I didn't apply any post-processing except for changing the file format to JPEG to reduce the size.

If it were a more serious attempt, I'd have used a better upscaling workflow (which might have cost me cloud credits) and maybe a few inpainting steps to add extra details to such areas, like the eyes. But again, my aim wasn't to win any contest but to show the difference in lighting, for which purpose I think they were sufficient.

Instead of playing with AI, I will work on the Insex special chastity belt the next evenings. P D was so kind to give me some hints and sketches, so at least this device will be very photoreal
You can't go wrong with Insex-style device bondage, and I think you're a master of such scenes. :)
 
I haven't posted new AI renders for quite some time, and it's because I'm spending what little free time I have to work on my AI-based text RP game prototype nowadays.

The game just generated this text, which I thought might be worthwhile to share:
Zakhar observes her defiance, his cold eyes reflecting the caged fury before him. He lets out a low chuckle, enjoying the futility of her resistance. Stepping forward, he circles Ayana like a predator toying with its prey, his gaze scraping over her nakedness. Stopping behind her, he reaches out to trace the branded number on her buttock, a symbol of her slavery.

"D-4671," Zakhar speaks her grade and number slowly, watching her flinch at the sound. He fists her hair, yanking her head back roughly. "What are you?" he hisses, his breath hot against her ear. With his other hand, he delves between her legs, pushing two fingers inside her. "Answer, D-4671," he orders, squeezing her nipple with cruel force.

(Stay tuned for more. Part 2 to follow!)

It certainly made me chuckle, but I wish there were a better way to steer LLM's output. It can be quite unpredictable at times. Aside from the "Stay tuned" part, I can't imagine how he managed to pull her hair back, shoving his fingers up there and squeezing her nipples all at the same time, for instance.

Things like that keep tempting me to abandon the idea and return to creating AI renders. I have 2 WIP projects I could finish at the moment instead of repeatedly banging my head against the LLM wall:
1713675095551.jpeg
But making a BDSM sandbox game has been my long-time dream, so I'll have to keep trying. Maybe the recently released Llama 3 could mitigate the problem once uncensored finetunes become available soon.
 
Some of you may have heard this news, but Meta released Llama 3 a few days ago.

It's significant in many aspects because Meta has been a leading proponent of open-source AI models. Llama 3 is said to be close to ChatGPT 4's capabilities despite being available for anyone to download and run on consumer hardware.

The immediate benefit it can bring to a kinky community like us is its much-improved ability to provide an erotic roleplay experience or to write stories of similar content.

Note that Lllama 3 itself is (loosely) censored, so we'll need to wait a bit until community finetunes arrive.

I decided to write this to inform you that one of the first such models is currently available for free on OpenRouter, which you can see here. As always, you can use a frontend like SillyTavern to create your character and scenario and start role-playing using such an LLM.

It's merely an 8B model. But from what I've tested, it works better than popular 13B models, which are adequate for an enjoyable roleplaying experience. (There are better models like WizardLM-2 8x22B, but you'll need credits or a powerful machine to run them).

I'm not sure how long it'll remain for free. But if anyone is interested in AI-based RP but hasn't tried it because of hardware requirements or cost, this might be a good time to try.
 
A warning to anyone using AI to create images from photos posted on-line.
Generating porn images by using non-nude facial images could get you into trouble. As AI becomes better at blending images to create new ones, more prosecutions are possible.
You need to be specifically into such things (e.g. making fake nude photos of celebrities) to require such a workflow. Even when you use an existing photo to create an AI image, it’s usually to keep the overall composition and tone while changing the characters instead of just removing the clothes.

Regardless of the method used, manipulating a photo of a person to make and publish porn material without their consent should not be allowed. And I don’t think it’s a problem specific to AI. In fact, I have seen far more cases of manipulated nude images of real people made with traditional methods on CF than those made with AI - we even have whole threads for such content.

I have already mentioned this several times before, but I wish we could revise the forum rules to ban such content regardless of how it was made. Maybe we could allow some flexibility to allow such cases like manipulating existing porn. But making and sharing nude images of real people without their consent shouldn’t be allowed because it’s an act of disrespect at best and a crime at worst.
 
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You need to be specifically into such things (e.g. making fake nude photos of celebrities) to require such a workflow. Even when you use an existing photo to create an AI image, it’s usually to keep the overall composition and tone while changing the characters, instead of just removing the clothes.

Regardless of the method used, manipulating a photo of a person to make and publish porn material without their consent should not be allowed. And I don’t think it’s a problem specific to AI. In fact, I have seen far more cases of manipulated nude images of real people made with traditional methods on CF than those made with AI.

I already mentioned this several times before, but I wish we could revise the forum rules to ban such content regardless of how they were made. Maybe we could allow some flexibility to allow such cases like manipulating existing porn. But making and sharing nude images of real people without their consent shouldn’t be allowed because it’s an act of disrespect at best and a crime at worst.
I agree, this has been a problem since the invention of Photoshop. AI only makes it easier to create realistic fakes.
I believe the Forum already has a rule against creating fakes of celebrities
 
I agree, this has been a problem since the invention of Photoshop. AI only makes it easier to create realistic fakes.
I believe the Forum already has a rule against creating fakes of celebrities
I skimmed through the forum rules but couldn't find a relevant clause to regulate such content. On the other hand, moderators post in many of the threads dedicated to such content, which implies that there's no consensus among the community's staff about banning them.

The current forum rules only disallow depictions of "realistic" violence but don't mention fake depictions of real people in lewd contexts.

I hope they can discuss this matter and revise the rules. But it's probably a subject suitable for a different place.
 
I agree, this has been a problem since the invention of Photoshop. AI only makes it easier to create realistic fakes.
I believe the Forum already has a rule against creating fakes of celebrities
That's interesting because I've never encountered any pushback from the mods for my Daz3D renders of vintage celebrities (in particular Louise Brooks and Clara Bow). Maybe this is because Daz3D renders are not realistic enough to be passed off as real images. Not sure, but there is an entire industry out there creating celebrity models for Daz3D.

Most Digital Creations is probably the most well-known one, but there are loads out there, and although MDC never attach actual names to their products, quite a few of them are instantly recognisable, as in this short selection of some of the best;


MDC's stuff is also among the lowest cost Daz products out there, for those who haven't yet figured out how to get this stuff for free...
 
There's certainly a grey area between what is disrespectful/harmful and what is not when it comes to using an image of an actual person for porn material without an explicit permission. This has little to do with AI itself, of course, but I'll share my thoughts on this matter since I was partly responsible to have started this discussion here.

I think most people would agree that it shouldn't be permitted to take photos of your neighbours, edit them to remove their clothes, and then share the result on a public forum like CF, for example. So, let's focus on the cases involving celebrities.

As a firm believer in freedom of speech, I believe there's room for satires that involve a fictional depiction of celebrities in a lewd context. Watch this brilliant satire of a well-known media figure and Donald Trump, for example:


Should they ban such satires? I suspect that not many of you would think they should.

But why? What if someone made a fake porn video of Estonian PM Kaja Kallas and published it online, for example? Is it any different from the case with Piers Morgan & D. Trump mentioned earlier?

From this point on, the question becomes trickier to answer. So, I'll just share my take on this matter without delving into other possible answers.

I think the two cases should be treated differently because the intention of the former was to criticise a popular journalist's behaviour using a metaphor, while the purpose of the latter video was to consume the image of a politician as an object of sexual gratification. The difference is meaningful because a journalist should expect their way of performing an interview to be open to public criticism, but there's no reason why a politician must expect images of their naked bodies (fictional or not) to be consumed as an object of fetish by the public.

But what if the subject is an actor or an actress? Personally, I draw the line where they were porn stars who are no longer working in the industry. If someone is a porn star, it means they either enjoy sharing or at least have given implicit permission for others to consume the image of their naked body. If they no longer work in the field, creating and publishing images of them would be considered a "homage" of a kind without the danger of interfering with their business.

Personally, I found the Celebrity Series mentioned above to be at least ethically questionable.

If I understood it correctly, they were modelled after ordinary (as in "non-pornographic") actresses active in the 1920s and 30s. The author of those models probably didn't ask permission or obtain a copyright to use their images but decided to create nude characters based on their resemblance for commercial purposes.

I'm pretty sure they wouldn't dare make a similar series on Margot Robbie or Emma Stone. So, I can only assume that the main motive for choosing old actresses might be to avoid lawsuits.

I don't know much about Louise Brooks or Clara Bow, but they wouldn't likely have permitted people to depict them in a pornographic context after they died, or their living family members would have approved of it.

As such, I think such content should be banned. If they are not illegal, it's certainly disrespectful to depict someone in a pornographic context without their knowledge and share it with others.

I believe a community like CF can only exist on the assumption that it is possible to enjoy sexual or violent fantasies in a safe and respectable manner. But if we must do so at the expense of others, we wouldn't be able to argue that our little community isn't a threat to society any longer, as those with a rigid sense of morality often attack people like us.

Maybe I'm overthinking it, but this is what I believe of the subject.
 
There's certainly a grey area between what is disrespectful/harmful and what is not when it comes to using an image of an actual person for porn material without an explicit permission. This has little to do with AI itself, of course, but I'll share my thoughts on this matter since I was partly responsible to have started this discussion here.

I think most people would agree that it shouldn't be permitted to take photos of your neighbours, edit them to remove their clothes, and then share the result on a public forum like CF, for example. So, let's focus on the cases involving celebrities.

As a firm believer in freedom of speech, I believe there's room for satires that involve a fictional depiction of celebrities in a lewd context. Watch this brilliant satire of a well-known media figure and Donald Trump, for example:


Should they ban such satires? I suspect that not many of you would think they should.
No, I'm 100% against any kind of censorship
But why? What if someone made a fake porn video of Estonian PM Kaja Kallas and published it online, for example? Is it any different from the case with Piers Morgan & D. Trump mentioned earlier?
There is a world of difference (legally if not actually ethically) between fake images of random people on social media and those of recognised public figures. Certainly in the US, parody material featuring public figures is perfectly legal and protected under the 1st Ammendment
From this point on, the question becomes trickier to answer. So, I'll just share my take on this matter without delving into other possible answers.

I think the two cases should be treated differently because the intention of the former was to criticise a popular journalist's behaviour using a metaphor, while the purpose of the latter video was to consume the image of a politician as an object of sexual gratification. The difference is meaningful because a journalist should expect their way of performing an interview to be open to public criticism, but there's no reason why a politician must expect images of their naked bodies (fictional or not) to be consumed as an object of fetish by the public.

But what if the subject is an actor or an actress? Personally, I draw the line where they were porn stars who are no longer working in the industry. If someone is a porn star, it means they either enjoy sharing or at least have given implicit permission for others to consume the image of their naked body. If they no longer work in the field, creating and publishing images of them would be considered a "homage" of a kind without the danger of interfering with their business.
That's a valid point - personally I'd love for MDC to do a series of Daz models of my favourite pornstars :)
Personally, I found the Celebrity Series mentioned above to be at least ethically questionable.
Well that really comes down to what the end user does with the content. In this context, intent matters. Having said that, I think that there is a difference between high-quality AI representations of public figures in compromising situations, and a Daz3D render which at best is merely an average likeness but could never be passed off as being real. Although as pointed out above, all such material involving public figures is protected (at least in the US anyway)

There is an issue here of course if the content is being produced with the intent of causing defamation or some other malicious harm, then this may well be actionable, but again it depends largely on the context and the purpose for which the content was made. If it's purely for somebody's sexual gratification, then legally that is likely to come within the terms of protected speech, but if (for example) it is being made for the purposes of blackmail, or as part of an attempt to cancel somebody, then this then falls within the scope of one or more legal prohibitions.

My biggest issue with the Celebrity Series (of which I have many of the products - mainly those celebrities I've actually heard of, which is a very small proportion of the content available) is that a large number of them are barely even recognisable as the people they are intended to represent (in my post above I cherry-picked the best examples - lots of them are barely recognisable if at all)
If I understood it correctly, they were modelled after ordinary (as in "non-pornographic") actresses active in the 1920s and 30s. The author of those models probably didn't ask permission or obtain a copyright to use their images but decided to create nude characters based on their resemblance for commercial purposes.
This brings up an interesting aspect of copyright law. In the US, celebrities (or more usually their agents/studios) own the rights to their likenesses, for the purpose of (for example) making action figueres or other merchandise. Here in the UK however, nobody has copyright over their likeness, so I could, in theory, 3D print action figures of a British celebrity and sell them on Etsy or Ebay without running into too many legal difficulties. Of course if I was getting into large-scale commercial production, then this would most likely get into a it of a legal quagmire, but ultimately, UK celebrities cannot copyright their likeness - at least not over here - many of them may go on to work in the US at which point their US agents may get a bit of legal muscle in this sort of thing, but it remains a grey area for UK citizens.
I'm pretty sure they wouldn't dare make a similar series on Margot Robbie or Emma Stone.
You'd be surprised what you can find out there :)
So, I can only assume that the main motive for choosing old actresses might be to avoid lawsuits.
Actually MY motivation was because I've always found them very attractive
I don't know much about Louise Brooks or Clara Bow, but they wouldn't likely have permitted people to depict them in a pornographic context after they died, or their living family members would have approved of it.
Possibly not, although both did pose nude for artistic photoshoots during their careers, though not pornographic stuff of course
As such, I think such content should be banned. If they are not illegal, it's certainly disrespectful to depict someone in a pornographic context without their knowledge and share it with others.
Fair enough but you will never get me to agree to the banning of any legal content

I believe a community like CF can only exist on the assumption that it is possible to enjoy sexual or violent fantasies in a safe and respectable manner.
Agreed 100%
Fantasy is also protected under the 1st Ammendment, and even here in the UK it is protected under the law, as ruled in a case from several years ago when an online fanfic writer was hauled before the courts for publishing violent snuff stories involving British celebrities, but the judge ruled that it was fantasy, and that the stories did not amount to inceitement to violence and although they were unpleasant and grossly distasteful, they were not actually unlawful.
But if we must do so at the expense of others, we wouldn't be able to argue that our little community isn't a threat to society any longer, as those with a rigid sense of morality often attack people like us.

Maybe I'm overthinking it, but this is what I believe of the subject.
Fair enough. All members here are entitled to express theirr opinions and I fully respect your right to do so. I think most of us in here would feel the same way. We don't necessarily have to agree with each other on all points, although you do make some good arguments here :)
 
Interesting discussion, thank you.

We have the following clause in our rules:

First, it should go without saying that any people in photos or videos acting out Crucifixion or taking part in BDSM or similar activities must be freely consenting adults.

In fact (sorry DP) we can and we do delete images and even threads when we suspect that subjects of images have been lifted from any innocent source be it, be it social media or someones phone or camera store.

It is true that some fakes, however generated, are so good that we might not realise that they've been lifted from social media, and again sometimes we've deleted images when we have been informed that they were obtained without consent.

Yes, we could add a clause forbidding the use of AI or photomanipulation for these purposes, and it may be worth pointing out that such practice iss illegal, but it has been illegal anyway from the earliest data protection legislation. So I'm not sure what it might achieve as I feel that the above is clear enough.
 
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