Raising the Cross - Which Way?

[Barbaria1]

Barb, the slaughter inflicted on the inhabitants of Jerusalem by the First Crusade in 1099 exceeded even the sanguinary standards of the day. Why not a crucifixion or two or two thousand outside the walls?

And didn’t you include a similar albeit smaller scale scenario here?

http://www.cruxforums.com/xf/resources/constantinople-by-barbaria.595/

Good point ... I had forgotten about that ...

 

[Apostate]

Keep the stipes low and bend the condemned's legs so that the toes just touch the grass.

Which is the position that precisely zaps my paraphilia.

 

[Possum]

]Really great renders Cadre ! I prefer being tied/nailed to a beam on the ground and then having the beam raised up dragging me to my feet , before hoisting on the upright . The victims feet scrabbling for purchase as they leave the earth for the last time. Also struggling on the ground after being secured to the beam puts on a good show of fear and anguish to the onlookers. Again great renders, I've attached a few of my own on the ground before being raised.

 

[_CADRE_]

]Really great renders Cadre ! I prefer being tied/nailed to a beam on the ground and then having the beam raised up dragging me to my feet , before hoisting on the upright . The victims feet scrabbling for purchase as they leave the earth for the last time. Also struggling on the ground after being secured to the beam puts on a good show of fear and anguish to the onlookers. Again great renders, I've attached a few of my own on the ground before being raised.
View attachment 556297View attachment 556298View attachment 556299View attachment 556300View attachment 556301View attachment 556302

Thank you. There's always room for improvement so feel free to critique my work.

 

[_CADRE_]

As for the 2nd method (nailing the wrists, and then hoisting the crossbeam upwards), here are some preliminary ideas of a crude, yet permanent structure that would be used by soldiers in ancient times when crucifixions were used as a frequent punishment for slaves, rebels, and criminals. Thoughts?

 

[toxidomaskjr]

both

 

[Deleted member jedakk]

I think the Romans probably did it both ways depending on circumstances. I think their preferred method was to nail the victim's wrists to the patibulum, then lift that into place atop the stipes, which was set up first or perhaps reused and never taken down. This is the way I usually show it, with the executioners simply lifting it into place by hand for a short cross. For anything taller than 7 to 7-1/2 feet, they'd probably have to use some kind of lifting rig. For a typical "T" cross that probably worked.

For crosses other than the "T" shape, there might have been no choice other than to fasten the victim in place and lift the whole thing at once. That's what I did with the "X" cross I show Lucilla crucified on in The Serpent's Eye, but I leave her feet loose while the cross is raised, just because I like her to have the freedom to struggle and try to find a way to brace herself as the cross inclines upward toward the vertical.



But there's no evidence that the Romans ever used an "X" cross like this construction, although they certainly could have.

 

[crumera]

I take option 3

Why not nail her feet while (s)he is still on the ground as well?
Fixing the piece of wood with the combined feet to the cross should be easy.

 

[Loxuru]

As for the 2nd method (nailing the wrists, and then hoisting the crossbeam upwards), here are some preliminary ideas of a crude, yet permanent structure that would be used by soldiers in ancient times when crucifixions were used as a frequent punishment for slaves, rebels, and criminals. Thoughts?

Thoughts? Sure! This method of hoisting demands a specific cross lay-out, with a row of crosses lined up as a kind of 'gallows', or 'gibet' as they say in French. It is very practical in the way that the hoisting device is fixed, and so it does not need to me moved over difficult ground (my objection in my previous post).

This lay out will probably result that the condemned will hang very close to each other. They will be able to talk to each other more easily, but they also will experience eac other's agony more closer.

I think their preferred method was to nail the victim's wrists to the patibulum, then lift that into place atop the stipes, which was set up first or perhaps reused and never taken down. This is the way I usually show it, with the executioners simply lifting it into place by hand for a short cross.

I rather think that the most easy way to do it was as Jeddak depicted it. It only needed a few strong slaved to lift the patibulum with the condemned on the stipes. No step-ups, ladders or hoisting device needed.

 

[stepnash]

Still would love to see the final crucifixion and execution of Lucilla.

 

[Apostate]

As for the 2nd method (nailing the wrists, and then hoisting the crossbeam upwards), here are some preliminary ideas of a crude, yet permanent structure that would be used by soldiers in ancient times when crucifixions were used as a frequent punishment for slaves, rebels, and criminals. Thoughts?

View attachment 556312 View attachment 556313

Cadre, you’ve hit upon a concept the makers of the 1977 miniseries Jesus of Nazareth came up with. Which has proved a rich vein of inspiration for crux manip artists over the years.

 

[Apostate]

Still would love to see the final crucifixion and execution of Lucilla.

Me too, stepnash. It’s Jedakk's call though, and when I last checked he had no enthusiasm for the project.

 

[Deleted member jedakk]

Regarding a framework like that, Damian also used one in his "By the Road" pic, one of several versions he did:



I wrote a story titled The Three Witches, inspired solely by the tituli in Greek that Damian placed above the heads of these girls. A subtle detail about this pic: After some discussion between us, he went back and made the grass beneath the crosses a bit more lush and long than the rest, as it might be if fertilized by the blood and rotting remains of the previous victims crucified there. Below is the earlier image before he made that change.

 

[Deleted member jedakk]

Me too, stepnash. It’s Jedakk's call though, and when I last checked he had no enthusiasm for the project.

Not completely true; it's just that I have a lot of other stuff in front of it, plus trying to work out the scope of the story, what exactly happens, how much I need to write about her crucifixions leading up to the final one. If I'm going to do it, I don't want to produce something that would be a disappointment.

 

[andy01]

I don't want to produce something that would be a disappointment.

Judging from experience, that seems unlikely.

 

[Barbaria1]

Regarding a framework like that, Damian also used one in his "By the Road" pic, one of several versions he did:

View attachment 556464

I wrote a story titled The Three Witches, inspired solely by the tituli in Greek that Damian placed above the heads of these girls. A subtle detail about this pic: After some discussion between us, he went back and made the grass beneath the crosses a bit more lush and long than the rest, as it might be if fertilized by the blood and rotting remains of the previous victims crucified there. Below is the earlier image before he made that change.


View attachment 556473

That one has always been a favorite of mine, given my fantasies about group crucifixions. The seemingly pleasantly lush and idyllic setting is a nice variation on the usual harsh arena or road settings. The other figures in the scene are also very convincingly arranged and portrayed. A real gem of a crux scene.

 

[Apostate]

Judging from experience, that seems unlikely.

Yeah, Andy. What you said.

Jedakk, I fear that unless you have some improbably fiendish variations in mind for the other 11 non lethal crucifixions, they could just turn out repetitive.

 

[_CADRE_]

I take option 3
View attachment 556338
Why not nail her feet while (s)he is still on the ground as well?
Fixing the piece of wood with the combined feet to the cross should be easy.

This was an interesting idea Crumera. I knocked together a little render depicting what I believe you to be saying, and I actually really like the idea. Nailing her feet to some sort of small piece of wood before raising her would make the last process of fixing her feet to the stipes much easier. Maybe I should have expanded this poll with more crux methods...

 

[Deleted member jedakk]

Yeah, Andy. What you said.

Jedakk, I fear that unless you have some improbably fiendish variations in mind for the other 11 non lethal crucifixions, they could just turn out repetitive.

It's hard enough to write about just one crucifixion and make it interesting. I can't do it without making the crucifixion a part of a larger story, so there's some kind of action to fill in what would otherwise be very dull and repetitive.

Now, to my mind, the Lucilla personality who was condemned to be crucified twelve times and then was dragged off to be put on a cross might well have been the typical cowering, terrified victim, humiliated before the crowd as she was roped to her cross and lifted up naked. By the sixth time, when Sabina encounters her, she is the angry, dangerous woman who knows exactly what crucifixion is like. Her personality should continue to evolve over the period of time that she is repeatedly subjected to crucifixion in various forms. There's a story there, but not yet sure how it goes.

 

[Apostate]

It's hard enough to write about just one crucifixion and make it interesting. I can't do it without making the crucifixion a part of a larger story, so there's some kind of action to fill in what would otherwise be very dull and repetitive.

Now, to my mind, the Lucilla personality who was condemned to be crucified twelve times and then was dragged off to be put on a cross might well have been the typical cowering, terrified victim, humiliated before the crowd as she was roped to her cross and lifted up naked. By the sixth time, when Sabina encounters her, she is the angry, dangerous woman who knows exactly what crucifixion is like. Her personality should continue to evolve over the period of time that she is repeatedly subjected to crucifixion in various forms. There's a story there, but not yet sure how it goes.

Hmmm. Do you propose something akin to Makar's Crux Encyclopedia, starring the damn near indestructible Mila?

http://freegalleries.cruxdreams.com/photo/016/index.html?id=imagemaker