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What Crimes Could Merit Crucifixion In The Future?

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andy01

Magistrate
I have just seen Jerkbot’s amazing animation “jerkbot_CRS_F_Rising” that Hangnail reposted on page 3 of http://www.cruxforums.com/xf/threads/crux-rising-animation.2832/page-3 It is wonderful work by JB, whose art I have just begun with delight to discover, and many thanks also to Hangnail for reposting it after YouTube deleted it.

There is just the cross, first on the ground and then being raised with all the horror that entails, and the strong woman nailed to it. No background, all black. Roman or future cross or other, the imagination runs free.

It makes me want to ask the others here;

if in a near future, society reversed its policies on crime and re-introduced ‘punitive and exemplary death sentences’, what crimes might be deemed so unforgivable as to merit a sentence of crucifixion?
For fantasy only, never in real life.
 
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Hopefully, none. I am against the death penalty in real life.

And I don't think it was effective for the Romans. Imagine how history would have been different if they had ignored Jesus or given him a fine and community service.
 
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Hopefully, none. I am against the death penalty in real life.

And I don't think it was effective for the Romans. Imagine how history would have been different if they had ignored Jesus or given him a fine and community service.
Thank you Windar. I did not mean a real future, that would be unspeakable and disgusting. But we play with strange and unusual fantasies here - fantasies only I believe and trust. And I have that quirk in my fantasies, and would be intrigued to explore it.
I've edited that post to add a line that I hope makes that clear. I am grateful to you for pointing out the need for that. It is important to draw that line.
 
Thank you Windar. I did not mean a real future, that would be unspeakable and disgusting. But we play with strange and unusual fantasies here - fantasies only I believe and trust. And I have that quirk in my fantasies, and would be intrigued to explore it.
I've edited that post to add a line that I hope makes that clear. I am grateful to you for pointing out the need for that. It is important to draw that line.

My fantasies don't involve crucifixion, so in that case I can't answer the question. But if it's fantasy, then why does there have to be a crime? You could crucify someone for failing to feed the parking meter in a fantasy world and it would make no difference, right?
 
Just to add one thing. No crime is necessary in fantasy. If you've never read it, check out "The Lottery" by Shirley Jackson. It's considered an American classic short story and I remember reading it in school. It's about a town where they hold a lottery one day in June every year and pick a few people whom they stone to death.
 
My fantasies don't involve crucifixion, so in that case I can't answer the question. But if it's fantasy, then why does there have to be a crime? You could crucify someone for failing to feed the parking meter in a fantasy world and it would make no difference, right?
Just to add one thing. No crime is necessary in fantasy. If you've never read it, check out "The Lottery" by Shirley Jackson. It's considered an American classic short story and I remember reading it in school. It's about a town where they hold a lottery one day in June every year and pick a few people whom they stone to death.

You make a good point windar. In fantasy no real crime is necessary. But neither in the real world. How many people have been executed by the state (whatever you mean by the word "state") for political or other purposes who never did anything wrong? I suspect many.

What about entertainment for the masses? Some sort of life or death contest in which the losers are executed. Hey, don't we almost have something like that in the Hunger Games stories and movies?

This video is very good. The girl is obviously being executed in public, possibly even live on camera for a larger audience. Perhaps she is a revolutionary or someone who is a danger to the state. Or maybe she refuses to be PC or call people by their preferred gender.

Guilt or innocence hardly matters. It's all about the image and the power that has for certain groups or institutions.

A scary world in some respects. A girl could just be pulled off the streets for any reason and find herself crucified for some fictitious crime.
 
In real life, I am also against capital punishment, and I have a deep, profound distrust in the penal justice system. Perhaps from there a part of my fascination for execution fantasies and stories. In every such story the storyline will lead the main character to the cross, or another execution and the reason why of this execution is a key element in it. Often it is about a conflict between the logic of the condemned against the blind logic of the system. You will notice that in stories of group executions, I will also pay attention to the sentence of the other condemned.
Nevertheless, I find it difficult to assess a list of crimes that would in the future be punished with crucifixion, even as a fantasy .
(a personal thought here : today we look upon those 'barbarous' times of the past, when people were brought to death, often in a cruel way, for, say, stealing an apple. In the 18th century, some enlighted people have proposed to change that and to lock up people for some years instead. I guess they were deemed crazy by many, because their opinion was a threat to the social order of society. I think, over some 300 years, people will consider us as barbarous because of the way and the conditions we lock up prisoners for many years behind bars).

Therefore, I rather prefer situating fantasies in a 'parallel world', which either encompasses lookalikes of the past times (e.g. Roman times) and vaguely defined or timeless lookalikes of the present or near future.

But let's say, in a future parallel world, people may get crucified for publically expressing their distrust and disgust in the penal justice system.:D Because by doing so, they undermine the social order of society.:confused:;)
 
I think everyone is missing the point of the thread, which was to explore a fantasy. I am interested in it that as well. If you can make the fantasy seem believable it is all that much more fulfilling. I have no real ideas to offer and was hoping to see some, I would like to make some art that revolves around crux in the not too distant future.

MH
 
I think everyone is missing the point of the thread, which was to explore a fantasy. I am interested in it that as well. If you can make the fantasy seem believable it is all that much more fulfilling. I have no real ideas to offer and was hoping to see some, I would like to make some art that revolves around crux in the not too distant future.

MH
Not exactly. I was aware that it was a fantasy, but I made a link between my personal thoughts and fantasy, because they are somehow mingled (I sometimes feel the desire to live the experience of real people who got the victim of judicial miscarriage). Perhaps, Andy has phrased the question a little bit too direct?

Let me point it our. Whatever the fantasy situation is, either the 'future' or a 'parallel world', what you need is a social and political system that decides to reintroduce crucifixion as a death penalty, because it is convinced that there is a need for it, and that finds at least passive public support for it.
The Roman Empire was such a case (although they cheated, since they exempted their citizens).
It needs a political system that is both repressive and caretaking for its population, so that a vaste majority of the population, preferring the nurturing benefits of the care of the state over individual rights and freedoms. A population bound by a collective identity which identifies with the state. Such a population then accepts crucifixion as a guarantee for maintaining the moral and social order they prefer, as a measure to protect their identity. You see, it is fictionous, it is fantasy, but it certainly has counterparts in real life. So let me give a list:
- high treason (whatever broad meaning justice gives to it)
- spying (including forbidden contacts with foreign countries)
- trying to flee the country, or providing help to it
- rebel activity (whatever broad meaning justice gives to it)
 
what crimes might be deemed so unforgivable as to merit a sentence of crucifixion?
In fantasy no real crime is necessary. But neither in the real world. How many people have been executed by the state (whatever you mean by the word "state") for political or other purposes who never did anything wrong?

Anyway, like some recent talk on 'Plantation Plight' this can get a bit uncomfortable unless we're clear what kind of fantasy we're talking about...

many stories show us victims who are innocents, martyrs, rebels for a just cause, are punished for trumped-up charges, or guilty only of infractions against an unjust or restrictive society (such as resistance against tyranny, slaves trying to escape, or people violating some obscure holy traditions...)

- so of course the sympathy goes to the victim ( though in certain cases using that word is supposedly not allowed ;) ) and the booing and hissing goes against the enforcing society, even if we sometimes see that the executioners themselves are also shown with a human dimension and their own conflicts that lead them to where they end up.

But what if we have a delinquent who is, even in our view, morally guilty, but not necessarily a complete 'monster' that we can easily dissociate all our emotions from -- and a society that has its own line of reasoning that leads to such a punishment...

... it can get ugly...

I couldn't, and wouldn't want to, draw up lists, but we've had discussions on the death penalty, and penal justice generally, before.

One historical trend we've seen in Western nations (and it's not that long ago that most Western nations had the death penalty) is to see the purpose of justice to be increasingly the 'improvement' of the delinquent to 'bring them into the fold' of society again. The death penalty as well as true life-long imprisonment then remain as the last resort for those perpetrators that society despairs of ever rehabilitating. In parallel with that, 'pride' of applying the death penalty has receded, public executions have gone out of fashion, and 'humane' execution methods have been sought, that turned the execution more into a 'removal' of the unacceptable element, than a public ceremony of affirmation of morality. Also, those most extreme options of punishment are subjected to continuous doubt and challenge.

Most antique cultures didn't care about 'humanely' putting to death those who they considered abhorrent or dangerous to society (they may have offered more humane methods or even the option of suicide to the privileged) - and the public spectacle was an integral part of the process - and they didn't harbor any doubts about what they were doing.

Revolutionary regimes also often show some or all aspects of that, regardless of whether they want to create the 'New Man' according to 'rational' ideas, or bring back the 'Justified and ancient' ways according to scriptures. The Islamic State goes all the way there; the terror of the French revolution used a 'humane' instrument but also did so very publicly and proudly.

If perhaps society decides, that the relation between it and its members, is not so much defined by rights of the individual that society has to guarantuee, but by obligations that the individual must fulfill to society, and uses public punishments to enforce that cultural shift, extracting as much suffering as possible from the delinquent to show them to all in the process of 'paying back their debt to society' ... pretty much anything could be possible.

Those kind of cultural shifts might happen when the preceding social order is perceived as having failed, reneged on its promises, and is finally weak enough to be replaced by those who want to bring about the entirely new or return to an idealized golden age. Of course that's all just dark fantasy and couldn't ever happen...
 
Tree really doesn't what 'crime' real or imagined was committed. I damn better get the contract to do them... Damn non-union scabs...
tree god.jpg
...yeah, I do have ethics! Pay me...
 
The Romans used crucifixion to display the power of the State and intimidate those who would disturb their order. If a modern or future society employed crucifixion it would be a totalitarian state employing it for the same reasons. The 'criminals" would be political dissidents, members of oppressed minorities, followers of unapproved religions, those suspected of conspiring against the ruling regime, and other "enemies of the state". Most likely, the family members might be crucified as well. Anyone who would in other places and times be sent to the gulag or concentration camps or simply "disappeared".
 
It fascinates and shocks us to think of such a thing in a modern setting, execution savage, humiliating and public, but it was the norm in centuries past, and even today there are those who consider normal, such as ISIS.
If crucifixion was made legal in a modern western setting, what form would it take? A means of execution, or simply of corporal punishment? Rough and brutal, or clinical and by the book? What kind of government could enact such laws, in what circumstances? Would it be a new kind of reality TV?
 
It fascinates and shocks us to think of such a thing in a modern setting, execution savage, humiliating and public, but it was the norm in centuries past, and even today there are those who consider normal, such as ISIS.
If crucifixion was made legal in a modern western setting, what form would it take? A means of execution, or simply of corporal punishment? Rough and brutal, or clinical and by the book? What kind of government could enact such laws, in what circumstances? Would it be a new kind of reality TV?

Public execution wasn't always humiliating. The Aztec and Mayan victims were greatly honored in the days leading up to their sacrifice.
 
I like to fantasize about non-lethal (using only ropes and only having the woman up there a certain period of time) crucifixion for minor offenses so as to relieve jail overcrowding.

-to accrue years' worth of "time served" in the event she is found guilty at trial
-possession of a bong
-unpaid parking tickets
-driving without a license
-fraud
-embezzlement
-jaywalking
-public intoxication
-indecent exposure
 
I like to fantasize about non-lethal (using only ropes and only having the woman up there a certain period of time) crucifixion for minor offenses so as to relieve jail overcrowding.

-to accrue years' worth of "time served" in the event she is found guilty at trial
-possession of a bong
-unpaid parking tickets
-driving without a license
-fraud
-embezzlement
-jaywalking
-public intoxication
-indecent exposure

indecent exposure - that's pretty funny.
"Ok, you are convicted of indecent exposure, now strip off and get up on that cross in the public square."

Here's an old Sam Baines manip on this theme
citycrux.jpg
 
The Romans used crucifixion to display the power of the State and intimidate those who would disturb their order. If a modern or future society employed crucifixion it would be a totalitarian state employing it for the same reasons. The 'criminals" would be political dissidents, members of oppressed minorities, followers of unapproved religions, those suspected of conspiring against the ruling regime, and other "enemies of the state". Most likely, the family members might be crucified as well. Anyone who would in other places and times be sent to the gulag or concentration camps or simply "disappeared".

Yes, the order of the State to obey and to be virtual slave are the highest criteria to be a normal member.
I do not use the word citizen or civilian, those implicate rights which in future will disappear.
The State has a right in himself to be State or he invents a virtual God. And there comes the world-shocking reason to crucify a victim who denies God because God is the State and reverse.
 
I was standing in the market with my sister as I heard the sound of metal and stomping behind me.

The scent of the fruit as it fell from my hand it was the sweetest thing that I would know from that moment on.

They lifted me up and threw me to the ground.

Stripping me of my clothes as they kicked as spat.

Pulled up by my shoulders and wrists quickly tied.

My sister ... screaming from under the table.

Up the road was the space of sins.

And it was

There was a place for me!

Nine to to be raised and one had died.

Orders are orders!

And they did not hesitate!

Found and bound and without any thought ...

I was thrown to the ground and raised in minutes.

Nailed through the ankles high and with blinding waves of pain.

The rest of them being there for at least a hour.

I was fresh and clean and frantic!

Squirming, screaming and flinching!

My body flipping back and forth, side to side .... screaming


Sweet wet sweat dipping!

:p

Not to be continued ... :devil:
 
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I was standing in the market with my sister as I heard the sound of metal and stomping behind me.

The scent of the fruit as it fell from my hand it was the sweetest thing that I would know from that moment on.

They lifted me up and threw me to the ground.

Stripping me of my clothes as they kicked as spat.

Pulled up by my shoulders and wrists quickly tied.

My sister ... screaming from under the table.

Up the road was the space of sins.

And it was

There was a place for me!

Nine to to be raised and one had died.

Orders are orders!

And they did not hesitate!

Found and bound and without any thought ...

I was thrown to the ground and raised in minutes.

Nailed through the ankles high and with blinding waves of pain.

The rest of them being there for at least a hour.

I was fresh and clean and frantic!

Squirming, screaming and flinching!

My body flipping back and forth, side to side .... screaming


Sweet wet sweat dipping!

:p

Not to be continued ... :devil:
Nailed though the ankles, fresh and clean and frantic, sweet wet sweat dripping ... images, images, images :rolleyes:
 
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