-
Sign up or login, and you'll have full access to opportunities of forum.
Other Forms Of Execution
- Thread starter willowfall
- Start date
idaconfident
Magistrate
I bet the animations are by Quoom! There seems no end to his sadistic imagination! - right down to the detail of birds feeding on the victim's pussy...
willowfall
Senator
As a student of military history I'm not sure people (in western culture) go out and "court" martydom so I'm having some trouble wrapping my head around this assertion.
Western history is replete with examples of the heroic last stand but those are by people (both military and civilian) who find themselves in that situation and somehow accept that their deaths will have a greater impact than surrendering and continuing to live. The Spartans at Thermopylae, the Jews at Massada, the Texians at the Alamo (for the most part) didn't go out seeking death enmass but given their understanding of the situation they accepted their deaths.
Western culture has always accepted the concept of surrender in the face of overwhelming odds.
I accept that female martydom was a way to show courage in the face of one's oppressors (just as throwing oneself off the castle wall instead of submitting to rape was an 'honorable' death) but I don't think generally martys go out looking for death. I think that martys do show an incrediable amount of courage in accepting a painful death rather than renounce their beliefs but I don't think they actively seek death.
The other thing we need to remember about the stories of martyrs is that it is religious propaganda. Much like Julius Caesar's Commentaries there is a political purpose to their stories and as a civilization we are not one to let facts get in the way of a good story with a lesson.
Just me two cents.
kisses
willowfall
I was thinking specifically of female Christian martyrs,
especially during the period of persecution in the late 3rd - 4th centuries,
and yes, I'm well aware of the 'propaganda' nature of religious hagiography,
tracing the development of saints' legends happens to be a big part of my day job -
all the same, there's a solid basis for the view that women did deliberately "court martyrdom",
acting in ways that they knew would land them in big trouble, hopefully in the arena
where they could display their heroism in ways normally associated with men,
not least the efforts of the male Church hierarchy to stop them.
especially during the period of persecution in the late 3rd - 4th centuries,
and yes, I'm well aware of the 'propaganda' nature of religious hagiography,
tracing the development of saints' legends happens to be a big part of my day job -
all the same, there's a solid basis for the view that women did deliberately "court martyrdom",
acting in ways that they knew would land them in big trouble, hopefully in the arena
where they could display their heroism in ways normally associated with men,
not least the efforts of the male Church hierarchy to stop them.
Last edited:
I accept that female martydom was a way to show courage in the face of one's oppressors (just as throwing oneself off the castle wall instead of submitting to rape was an 'honorable' death) but I don't think generally martys go out looking for death. I think that martys do show an incrediable amount of courage in accepting a painful death rather than renounce their beliefs but I don't think they actively seek death. -Willowfall
Damn that must mean she didn't believe my story about Bethany a while back...
t
Damn that must mean she didn't believe my story about Bethany a while back...
t
DarknessMonger
Magistrate
More than a publicly prove their valor I think it was seen by some as a 'fast track' to heaven, one or two days of pain instead of a lifetime of being virtuous. I remember some writing about what must have felt Sebastian when he was rescued from the clutches of death, so close to martyrdom, eternal life welcoming him, and awake back in the mortal flesh, still subject to sin and corruption.
DarknessMonger
Magistrate
hmm, as I didn' expect this site to have so many funny pictures of squirrels, also didn't expect it woudl got me talking so much about mystical things (it might mean that this forum is quite special). But indeed the mystic experiences have been often refered to in terminology akin to one of sexual experiences. And more than once I've heard teh idea of if God made the orgasms as an incentive to procreation what would it be as a prize for the ones who love Him.
ok Ulrika, I think I've had enough wine, now let's get back to the usual schedule of nasty ways to execute people
ok Ulrika, I think I've had enough wine, now let's get back to the usual schedule of nasty ways to execute people
Naraku
Draconarius
I was going to say something about the shared psychology of Christian martyrs, Jonestown & suicide bombers....But I think I'll just leave that can of worms unopened.
Instead, here are some hanging manips by an artist named Ponch. I think he's Russian. I found them on a Russian site, at least.
Instead, here are some hanging manips by an artist named Ponch. I think he's Russian. I found them on a Russian site, at least.
I wonder if the clit of the women is also erected, like the men'ones, during a hanging ....
...and if they've an orgasm, like them ?
Well Messa, there is one way to find out . . .
Attachments
I wonder if the clit of the women is also erected, like the men'ones, during a hanging ....
...and if they've an orgasm, like them ?
they have massive haemorrhage -
special leather drawers were provided for women when they were hanged
special leather drawers were provided for women when they were hanged
willowfall
Senator
Hey sexy, can you do me a favor and cite a couple of those sources so that I can go have a look at them?
Militarily the "last stand" has always been a favorite subject of mine and there is a certain conjecture that a considerable amount of 'mob psychology' occurs when a unit does that. Of course, for the most part, it is impossible to interview the particpants as they really aren't in a condition to talk so the pyshcology behind why it occurs is mostly guess work.
And again I'm speaking western culture. Both Asian and Islamic culture have long accepted the suicide attack as a valid military operation but the martyers in question here are from western based cultures.
Now what I am talking about is different from the honorable suicide in the face of the inevitable which has a strong foundation in Greco-Roman culture. But again in that case the participant accepts that death is inevitable before committing suicide. Rarely do they go out and seek death.
I think seeking and accepting is the rub of our intellectual disagreement.
But I have been wrong before.
kisses
willowfall
The Passion of Perpetua is the best starting-point (there's a new edition recently, but it doesn't seem to have reached Wiki) - read out from her own account (continued almost up to the time of her martyrdom) into the pretty wide secondary literature on her story (and that of her fellow-martyrs), and its context - especially the possible Montanist background (they (a) had women leaders and (b) glorified martyrdom in terms eerily similar to those of present day Islamic shaheeds).
I don't think there's a big difference between us. In the case of Perpetua (and several other female martyrs whose legends - in the strict sense, 'stuff to be read' - are early enough and consistent enough with what we know of Roman law and social convention to indicate a core of fact), I'd settle for 'assertive acceptance' of martyrdom as the inevitable consequence of their stand (against arranged marriage or 'sacrificing' to the Emperor), but it was 'acceptance' reinforced by desire and hope.
And of course assertive women challenging the authorities, stroppy teens defying their parents, serving-maids disobeying their masters and mistresses, were uncomfortable subject-matter for the male hierarchy, even if the authorities/ parents/ owners were pagans. The way their stories were re-worked, legenda, 'stuff to be read' to monks and nuns, becoming propaganda, 'stuff to be propagated', spread far and wide, is what fascinates me.
But I think 'western-based cultures' may be anachronistic in considering the Christian martyrs: they were of course mostly in the eastern past of the Empire, and I see them as part of a cultural continuum which extended from the Mediterranean to the Bay of Bengal, very much influenced by ideas from Persia and beyond - the Montanists are a case in point.
I don't think there's a big difference between us. In the case of Perpetua (and several other female martyrs whose legends - in the strict sense, 'stuff to be read' - are early enough and consistent enough with what we know of Roman law and social convention to indicate a core of fact), I'd settle for 'assertive acceptance' of martyrdom as the inevitable consequence of their stand (against arranged marriage or 'sacrificing' to the Emperor), but it was 'acceptance' reinforced by desire and hope.
And of course assertive women challenging the authorities, stroppy teens defying their parents, serving-maids disobeying their masters and mistresses, were uncomfortable subject-matter for the male hierarchy, even if the authorities/ parents/ owners were pagans. The way their stories were re-worked, legenda, 'stuff to be read' to monks and nuns, becoming propaganda, 'stuff to be propagated', spread far and wide, is what fascinates me.
But I think 'western-based cultures' may be anachronistic in considering the Christian martyrs: they were of course mostly in the eastern past of the Empire, and I see them as part of a cultural continuum which extended from the Mediterranean to the Bay of Bengal, very much influenced by ideas from Persia and beyond - the Montanists are a case in point.
P
Pia
Guest
I share cmeinsen's desire....
yep both redheads.................................that can't go wrong
Mmmmm I love the rack...with me on it!!!!yep both redheads.................................that can't go wrong
mmmmmmmmmmmmmm need some photo-shoppingMmmmm I love the rack...with me on it!!!!