Aubet, Cubet And Guerre

[Zephyros]

Aubet (also called Aimbeth, Ainbeth, Embede, Einbede), Cubet (Gaupet, Fürbet, Wilbede) and Guerre (Gwere, Gberpet, Quere, Wolbeth, Warbede) are popular saints in South Germany and the alpine regions of Europe; they are often referred to as »3 holy virgins« or »3 Beths« or »3 Bedes«. Their legend is peculiarly fuzzy:

They were companions of Ursula and were killed together with her by Huns near to Cologne.
They dissociated from Ursula's group at Strassbourg in order to care for another companion who had fallen ill, and remained there for the rest of their lives. They left Strassbourg when her companion had recovered, but were captured by Huns near Worms and cruelly put to death. They got separated from Ursula's group when they crossed the Alps, and had to flee from pagan marauders (Avars, Huns) to a remote mountain village, where they found shelter and provided medical and spiritual service to the villagers. On their flight to the village or perhaps at a later time Guerre was captured by the pagans and crucified in mockery of her faith.

Guerre (here called Quere) crucified almost naked to a tree, the surviving sisters Aubet and Cubet praying on the ground ...

The most likely explanation for this diversity is that Aubet, Cubet, and Guerre are the three Celtic Matrons — goddesses who had been venerated all over Central Europe before the Christian era — and that the legends had been created to justify their continued veneration. In some parts of Germany they are identified with the saints Barbara, Catharina, and Margareta. There has also been an (official) attempt to identify the three virgins with Fides, Spes, and Caritas (daughters of Sophia), but as their martyrdom had taken place in Rome, far away from the Alps, this view never became popular among the mountain population.
Aubet, Cubet, and Guerre are patrons of sick people; especially women with pregnancy or childbirth problems seek their help. Their memorial day is September 16th.
In Meransen the »3 holy virgins« are called Aubet, Cubet and Guerre - in other places Ambett, Gwerbett und Wilbett



Some pics taken from: Volkskundliches aus dem bayrisch-österreichischen Alpengebiet, Marie Andree-Eysn

German-speaking members will find attached a pdf with some information about the »3 holy virgins«

 

[Jollyrei]

Always interesting, Zephyros.

 

[montycrusto]

Aubet (also called Aimbeth, Ainbeth, Embede, Einbede), Cubet (Gaupet, Fürbet, Wilbede) and Guerre (Gwere, Gberpet, Quere, Wolbeth, Warbede) are popular saints in South Germany and the alpine regions of Europe; they are often referred to as »3 holy virgins« or »3 Beths« or »3 Bedes«. Their legend is peculiarly fuzzy:

They were companions of Ursula and were killed together with her by Huns near to Cologne.
They dissociated from Ursula's group at Strassbourg in order to care for another companion who had fallen ill, and remained there for the rest of their lives. They left Strassbourg when her companion had recovered, but were captured by Huns near Worms and cruelly put to death. They got separated from Ursula's group when they crossed the Alps, and had to flee from pagan marauders (Avars, Huns) to a remote mountain village, where they found shelter and provided medical and spiritual service to the villagers. On their flight to the village or perhaps at a later time Guerre was captured by the pagans and crucified in mockery of her faith.
View attachment 281492
Guerre (here called Quere) crucified almost naked to a tree, the surviving sisters Aubet and Cubet praying on the ground ...

The most likely explanation for this diversity is that Aubet, Cubet, and Guerre are the three Celtic Matrons — goddesses who had been venerated all over Central Europe before the Christian era — and that the legends had been created to justify their continued veneration. In some parts of Germany they are identified with the saints Barbara, Catharina, and Margareta. There has also been an (official) attempt to identify the three virgins with Fides, Spes, and Caritas (daughters of Sophia), but as their martyrdom had taken place in Rome, far away from the Alps, this view never became popular among the mountain population.
Aubet, Cubet, and Guerre are patrons of sick people; especially women with pregnancy or childbirth problems seek their help. Their memorial day is September 16th.
In Meransen the »3 holy virgins« are called Aubet, Cubet and Guerre - in other places Ambett, Gwerbett und Wilbett

View attachment 281498 View attachment 281497 View attachment 281496 View attachment 281495 View attachment 281494 View attachment 281493

Some pics taken from: Volkskundliches aus dem bayrisch-österreichischen Alpengebiet, Marie Andree-Eysn

German-speaking members will find attached a pdf with some information about the »3 holy virgins«

Good inspiration for a story! Messaline was talking about the Huns yesterday, and now this too. Intriguing.... I find the whole period of "Late Antiquity" (we used to call it the Dark Ages) fascinating - Rome splitting in two and crumbling away (in the west), barbarians sweeping in from all directions, new kingdoms emerging everywhere. And the odd crucifixion going on too. Great stuff! Thanks for this introduction, it was very interesting.

 

[thehangingtree]

Aubet (also called Aimbeth, Ainbeth, Embede, Einbede), Cubet (Gaupet, Fürbet, Wilbede) and Guerre (Gwere, Gberpet, Quere, Wolbeth, Warbede) are popular saints in South Germany and the alpine regions of Europe; they are often referred to as »3 holy virgins« or »3 Beths« or »3 Bedes«. Their legend is peculiarly fuzzy:

They were companions of Ursula and were killed together with her by Huns near to Cologne.
They dissociated from Ursula's group at Strassbourg in order to care for another companion who had fallen ill, and remained there for the rest of their lives. They left Strassbourg when her companion had recovered, but were captured by Huns near Worms and cruelly put to death. They got separated from Ursula's group when they crossed the Alps, and had to flee from pagan marauders (Avars, Huns) to a remote mountain village, where they found shelter and provided medical and spiritual service to the villagers. On their flight to the village or perhaps at a later time Guerre was captured by the pagans and crucified in mockery of her faith.
View attachment 281492
Guerre (here called Quere) crucified almost naked to a tree, the surviving sisters Aubet and Cubet praying on the ground ...

The most likely explanation for this diversity is that Aubet, Cubet, and Guerre are the three Celtic Matrons — goddesses who had been venerated all over Central Europe before the Christian era — and that the legends had been created to justify their continued veneration. In some parts of Germany they are identified with the saints Barbara, Catharina, and Margareta. There has also been an (official) attempt to identify the three virgins with Fides, Spes, and Caritas (daughters of Sophia), but as their martyrdom had taken place in Rome, far away from the Alps, this view never became popular among the mountain population.
Aubet, Cubet, and Guerre are patrons of sick people; especially women with pregnancy or childbirth problems seek their help. Their memorial day is September 16th.
In Meransen the »3 holy virgins« are called Aubet, Cubet and Guerre - in other places Ambett, Gwerbett und Wilbett

View attachment 281498 View attachment 281497 View attachment 281496 View attachment 281495 View attachment 281494 View attachment 281493

Some pics taken from: Volkskundliches aus dem bayrisch-österreichischen Alpengebiet, Marie Andree-Eysn

German-speaking members will find attached a pdf with some information about the »3 holy virgins«

So I ask did she deserve it or not...

Tree

Are you SERIOUSLY asking this crowd???

Ulrika

 

[Jollyrei]

So I ask did she deserve it or not...

I think we know your answer to this question, so I suspect it is rhetorical. Nevertheless, I still suggest that opinions across the forums are somewhat divided.
Then again, if they were convicted of the crime of heresy/apostasy by a magistrate, then by the laws of the time they deserved it.
I wonder, though, if the question of merit is really relevant. She is there, ergo she gets crucified, is more the line in the forums, I think.

 

[malins]

I find the whole period of "Late Antiquity" (we used to call it the Dark Ages) fascinating - Rome splitting in two and crumbling away (in the west), barbarians sweeping in from all directions, new kingdoms emerging everywhere. And the odd crucifixion going on too.

Thats a good environment for stories also, because you can easily invent whatever kingdom, warrior band, as you like, with their own strange traditions, but simultaneously mix in documented history. Among so many other briefly existing kingdoms - who can tell yours is just an invention? - when it is even difficult to divide fact from legend, in what tales remains from that time. Also some Roman traditions were continued longer than expected, both West and East. For example, don't let someone tell you "after Constantince, Christians didn't crucify Christians"; mass crucifixions of (heretic) Christians happened in Byzantium (example, persecution of Paulicians in 9th century)...

 

[montycrusto]

Thats a good environment for stories also, because you can easily invent whatever kingdom, warrior band, as you like, with their own strange traditions, but simultaneously mix in documented history. Among so many other briefly existing kingdoms - who can tell yours is just an invention? - when it is even difficult to divide fact from legend, in what tales remains from that time. Also some Roman traditions were continued longer than expected, both West and East. For example, don't let someone tell you "after Constantince, Christians didn't crucify Christians"; mass crucifixions of (heretic) Christians happened in Byzantium (example, persecution of Paulicians in 9th century)...

Ooh, Byzantium... don't get me started on that... I was obsessed with it for about 6 years...

 

[malins]

Ooh, Byzantium... don't get me started on that...

It's a strangely suppressed topic in teaching of history in the West. I would guess the Russians and Greeks learn more about it
I hav to admit, that much all of whatever I know of Byzantium comes from two days sitting, swamped with rain, in a trailer during a vacation in Scotland. (Normally, the rule along the Scottish coast is if you don't like the weather, wait for five minutes for it to change, but this was one of the exceptions There I found a history of Byzantium in two volumes and that was just right for the situation And of course I'll remember the crucifixions; really of course the most popular thing they had was blinding people with hot irons. Oh, and Empress Theodora. Don't dare to become an enemy of Theodora, don't dare to make her angry, don't even dare to look too good beside her, you will always end up dead...

 

[montycrusto]

It's a strangely suppressed topic in teaching of history in the West.

Yes, I blame Kenneth Clarke, who managed to leave Byzantium out of his "Civilization" series. Probably because he was a catholic. For him, post-Roman civilization was entirely preserved by Celtic monks clinging to the rocks off the coast of Galway, and everything else was drowned in darkness and barbarism. The fact that Constantinople was at the height of its power and prestige... nah, fuck that. And Theodora is amazing; what a character!

 

[Eulalia]

Normally, the rule along the Scottish coast is if you don't like the weather, wait for five minutes for it to change, but this was one of the exceptions There I found a history of Byzantium in two volumes and that was just right for the situation

shame about the weather, Malins, but it's an ill wind that blows no good ...
presumably those volumes were left there by some of Kenneth Clark's Celtic monks?
I'm another cruxer who finds history - especially the history of ideas, literature and art -
between 'late Roman' and 'Viking Age', i.e. Constantine to Charlemagne, very fascinating,
and there's no way we can begin to understand that period
if we ignore what was going on in and beyond the Eastern Empire.
Interesting, I wonder whether there's some profound reason that we 'Dark Age' enthusiasts
find our way to CruxForums?

 

[montycrusto]

Interesting, I wonder whether there's some profound reason that we 'Dark Age' enthusiasts find our way to CruxForums?

I guess we're just Romantics at heart... and what age is more Romantic than the Dark one?

 

[malins]

Yes, I blame Kenneth Clarke...

I think the mutual derision began a bit earlier... the 1054 schisma, the 1182 massacre, the 1204 siege... some of this still remains at the bottom of east/west conflicts inside European culture...

And Theodora is amazing; what a character!

Another setting for a Dark Age story... the attempts of Amalaswintha, who for a short time ruled Italy as queen, to reconcile the ruling warrior caste of the Goths with the culture of the Romans, and rejoin the remains of the Western empire with Constantinople. Death was quickly earned by her ambitions. Official history describes this as only caused by disagreements within the Gothic noblehood, but Procopius in his Secret History clearly accuses Theodora of planning everything... (I must admit, years ago I pestered one of the artists on the forums to perhaps illustrate the story... )

shame about the weather

Oh, mostly I have been blessed. I even once succeeded in getting a noticeable sunburn on the Calmac ferry back from Castlebay to Oban

I wonder whether there's some profound reason that we 'Dark Age' enthusiasts
find our way to CruxForums?

There might be several things... a Dark Age is when new, "barbaric" cultures try to put down their roots after a previous civilization has crumbled away. It's a time when many new legends and myths are created. It's a time when individuals strong of will, with their own hand can force the course of history, as well as the fate of any individual...whether we are the ones to dream of the nails through or the hammer in our hands, why would this not be an attractive area to project our imaginations?

Also probably most of us are susceptible to the concept of the memento mori. And what else is a Dark Age, than the ultimate memento mori for any proud and wide-reaching civilization, that assumes to control everything... whether it is that of Rome, or ours?

 

[Eulalia]

And even in the West, there were those - not just Irish monks, plenty in Gaul, Italy, Iberia too - who believed that Rome hadn't 'crumbled', but rather been transformed, made all the more glorious, by becoming Christian, and they strove to preserve and pass on their concept of Romanitas - which was just as valid as ours, and most 'barbarian' rulers were only too eager to embrace it, it gave them legitmacy and prestige - not to mention a ready-made 'civil service' of literate scribes.

Oh, mostly I have been blessed. I even once succeeded in getting a noticeable sunburn on the Calmac ferry back from Castlebay to Oban

Indeed, on a fine day, that voyage is one of the loveliest in the world
in my entirely unbiased opinion!

 

[malins]

Indeed, on a fine day, that voyage is one of the loveliest in the world in my entirely unbiased opinion!

And for the outbound voyage to the island, you can get on the little propeller plane that flies from Glasgow and lands at low tide on Traigh Mor beach... unique But this should be about crucified saints, not the Scotland travel guide... how did that happen... oh, of course it was my fault

I really must learn to write about crucifixion!

 

[Eulalia]

I really must learn to write about crucifixion!

you must tràigh mòr

 

[Naraku]

Another setting for a Dark Age story... the attempts of Amalaswintha, who for a short time ruled Italy as queen, to reconcile the ruling warrior caste of the Goths with the culture of the Romans, and rejoin the remains of the Western empire with Constantinople. Death was quickly earned by her ambitions. Official history describes this as only caused by disagreements within the Gothic noblehood, but Procopius in his Secret History clearly accuses Theodora of planning everything... (I must admit, years ago I pestered one of the artists on the forums to perhaps illustrate the story... )

Procopius' "Secret History" shouldn't be taken too much at face value. It was written late in life by a man who seems to have become embittered, though why is not known. He does seemed to have turned against those whose favor he had once courted. And, much of what he wrote cannot possibly be true. Here's something he reported about Justinian:

"And some of those who have been with Justinian at the palace late at night, men who were pure of spirit, have thought they saw a strange demoniac form taking his place. One man said that the Emperor suddenly rose from his throne and walked about, and indeed he was never wont to remain sitting for long, and immediately Justinian's head vanished, while the rest of his body seemed to ebb and flow; whereat the beholder stood aghast and fearful, wondering if his eyes were deceiving him. But presently he perceived the vanished head filling out and joining the body again as strangely as it had left it."

 

[malins]

Procopius' "Secret History" shouldn't be taken too much at face value.

From the view of the circmspect historian, certainly. From my view... well, me, and historic authenticity, rarely travel on the same train My view is more a fairy-tale one...
Perhaps Procopius, after having forced most his life, to praise and propagandize the powerful and write their panegyrics, released some of his true sentiments late in life, when he had become unafraid of consequences...

his body seemed to ebb and flow

Those he earlier represented as agents of justice and God's will now portrayed as demons...
...or perhaps he looked upon the signs of service to Elder Gods...