I have recently become convinced that all killers should be put to death and the more painfully the better. Are there any other members who believe in the use of crucifixion or is everyone else here for fetish/sexual reasons.
Well argued although when someone commits a horrendous crime, I tend to revert to a more basic type of individual.Your argument isn't one at all I'd say.
Even if one did favor the death penalty it could still be the (painless) final removal of a person from a society, that this society feels it cannot under any circumstances tolerate to exist.
It wouldn't be an argument either to say, if we have prisons in the first place, they should all be non-stop 24/7 torture dungeons.
A lot of what's going on with public executions seems to me, rather than deterrence, to be an aggressive celebration that swears in the spectators on a set of values.
That's why violent tyrannies often enforce attendance.
See the current example of Islamic State.
They don't find it very easy to deter the things they punish with death, it's more a ceremony by which they induce the people of conquered territories to become a part of the Caliphate's society. Some do that willingly because they support those values but many are coerced into this ritual.
You do that when your society can't stand on the basis of its values but the essence of it is force and subjugation.
While the Romans had some nice Republican ideals they might occasionally even have applied amongst their citizenry, their empire very much relied on continuous conquest, subjugation and enslavement and that's where crux comes in...
Modern crux I think as a storytelling device is a perfectly valid scenario; -- if we devise a society that would do that, it would be a dystopian one though.
It's possible to imagine the steps of civilizational descent that might lead there but it's got nothing to do with improving justice.
It's also possible to highlight failings of some of the currently established practices of justice without going to extremes...
I would always have guessed a lot of that is just plain boring demographics...?
Some people cannot be rehabilitated, they are sociopaths and will forever be sociopaths.I'm not a big fan of the death penalty generally. It always seems to me to be a sign of giving up on the idea that an offender can be rehabilitated, before we've even really committed properly to rehabilitation. I think some other countries do a better job at that. But that's a different debate than whether to use crucifixion as the method. If we are to dispose of people in some manner, why dehumanize ourselves with the most gruesome possible methods. If death is to be a penalty, it is enough that the person is removed from society permanently. It requires no public spectacle.
Crucifixion is only viable if it is done in public. Without the audience, there is no point to it at all. It takes a lot of time and resources (monitors, guards, space) to accomplish, which is antithetical to the functioning of an efficient institution of any sort. If it is public, what you end up with is a lot of dead people hanging around in various states of dying, death, and decomposition, which would pose a bit of a public health hazard, and take up even more resources (guards, disposal squads, etc.).
Finally, there is the issue of the perception of death in society today. Market forces tend to emphasize youth and vigour, and the fiction that we can all live vibrant, healthy lives, free of illness or anything remotely "icky". Menstrual products are sold showing blue liquid, because nobody is supposed to publicly do anything so crass as to bleed or perform any sort of sticky activity. Death is more feared than considered a natural part of life. We go to war now and people are distressed that soldiers die, as if they're not supposed to do that. Nobody wants to see a lot of people lined up on the roadsides hanging on crosses waiting for a messy, painful, non-antiseptic death.
I find the issues of dealing with death, and particularly death by crucifixion, interesting and fascinating, insofar as we have an almost Victorian view of death - death and pain as illicit "pleasures". It's fun as a fantasy. It's considerably less viable as a real life practice.
Sure, there are those who we could not safely allow among us and for whom rehabilitation is highly unlikely (Charles Manson, for example). That's why we have life without parole.Some people cannot be rehabilitated, they are sociopaths and will forever be sociopaths.
Finally, there is the issue of the perception of death in society today. Market forces tend to emphasize youth and vigour, and the fiction that we can all live vibrant, healthy lives, free of illness or anything remotely "icky".
Well for me, i would want the Guillotine used for executions
and in public, and a must is bring back the Ducking Stool
for stroppy women. just imagine if you disobey your husband
he has the right to take you to court for disobedience and
the only sentence is the ducking stool . all the guilty females
sentenced monday to friday in one week have to report to
the pond, lake, whatever on the following sunday at 11-45am
ducking punishments start at twelve noon prompt.the number
of duckings each female takes depends on the seriousness of
her disobedience . Now That Is Fantasy
Some of you girls could use the cleaning also.
That's right, but i am very concerned, to I or other persons come innocent in the situation for live long jail. And when the state never recognize the innocence. Horrible, for ever in jail. The life on this place, is it not worth, to life. That is buried alive. A good penality for guilty persons, a endless horror for innocents.The greatest argument against any death penalty, at least to my mind, is that it is impossible to redress the penalty in the case of a mistake.
It is final we cannot bring someone back from the dead.
Mistakes do happen, even in the best regulated societies.
But as a fantasy - keep up the good work.
Several members have put forward reasonable and well laid out arguments why such a thing is a very bad idea, at least for our current society.
I agree.
But the fantasy of reintroducing crucifixion as a valid punishment is a very powerful and fascinating and entertaining one. We see it here on a regular basis, it appeals to us on many levels. I've done stories and manips on this topic, it intrigues us.
So my vote is: no to actual reintroduction, yes to the fantasy of it!
I like phlebas' point. The fantasy of reintroducing crucifixion as punishment in some futuristic scenario is always intriguing to me. I doubt we will see anything like it in the real world today (although there are some places where you never know ). But to imagine what it might be like is always a fun and erotically exciting thing to spend time doing.
Yes! And also the political and social context of these futuristic scenario's, and the way the lead character(s) end up at the cross.
I see dystopian future scenarios as a mirror for today's society.Uh huh, often for crimes that would seem trivial or politically correct today?
I see dystopian future scenarios as a mirror for today's society.
Political incorrectness will be the crime.