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Is It Right To Enjoy Our Fantasies?

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hornet1ba said:
I do have the same worry:what if some twisted maniac got inspired what can be found on this (and others) forums.

Its only a movie but i always thought about the end scene of "American Psycho" when i look at some of the material on this site.

For those that did not see this movie here is a short clip:
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I did not see the movie, nor read the book on which it is based. One review I did read said that the book was "intensely boring"--repetitive in the extreme. I guess I am into nudity more than cruelty and pain--it's the display aspect of crucifixion that most interests me, and I get bored even on a steady diet of that. I suppose that like sports one can go deep into the psychology and the skill and maintain an interest, but most people don't go to every game every day.
 
There was in the '80's a conservative TV evangelist named "Jimmy Swaggart" (great name). He was a gifted musician, from a family that spawned a popular professional musician (who did drugs) whose name for the present escapes me. He was brought down when it was revealed that he had paid a prostitute to take off her clothes for him--no sex. (He was married--apparently he couldn't get the sex life he really wanted and his wife was as hung up as he was). I guess he felt that was a lesser "sin". Just buy a magazine, buddy, it's a lot cheaper. If you can't be objective about your inclinations, but feel you have to "rationalize" them by saying "this isn't really as big a sin as people say", there is something wrong with you and it's a lot worse than just being "lustful in your heart".
 
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Frank Petrexa said:
There was in the '80's a conservative TV evangelist names "Jimmy Swaggart" (great name). He was a gifted musician, from a family that spawned a popular professional musician (who did drugs) whose name for the present escapes me. He was brought down when it was revealed that he had paid a prostitute to take off her clothes for him--no sex. (He was married--apparently he couldn't get the sex life he really wanted and his wife was as hung up as he was). I guess he felt that was a lesser "sin". Just buy a magazine, buddy, it's a lot cheaper. If you can't be objective about your inclinations, but feel you have to "rationalize" them by saying "this isn't really as big a sin as people say", there is something wrong with you and it's a lot worse than just being "lustful in your heart".
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Rock and roll legend Jerry Lee Lewis was one of his cousins. Another cousin was country star and honky tonk owner Mickey Gilley. They all grew up together in Louisiana.
In 1988 he gave his infamous "I have sinned" speech and it came out that he had hired a prostitute. The Assemblies of God stripped him of his ordination and he started his own independent church.
Less well known - mainly because he had already dropped off the national radar - is that in 1991 he was pulled over by police for a traffic violation and found to have prostitute in the car with him. This time he told his congregation: "The Lord told me it's flat none of your business.". I guess he felt god had already forgiven him and he didn't have to ask anymore. Shortly after, he handed the ministry over to his son.

I don't buy into your argument that Swaggart and the pedophile priests and others engage in the their activities because they believe it is a "lesser sin" than masturbation. Although, I do think there are some priest who intemperate the vow celibacy as only covering sex with women; I believe the psychology of the situation is far more complicated.
 
messaline said:
Hum, it's the question ; do we really like the pain ? I think that we like definite pain (whipping .....) , but do we like , for example, a hammer stroke to a finger ?!
I agree that my bdsm'tendency could be natural but I was , at least, trained by my lover'girl in this way , otherwise, I doubt that I should practice ...
I remember , in an other hand, that my father was saying that "nothing could happen which could be from an other nature than ourselves " ...
I rather agree with this sentence ; sooner or later we meet our fate ( or devils ?:D) ...
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I think to a certain extent one has to be tolerant of pain. Now tolerance levels and the definition of pain is different.

For example when I tore my ACL, it hurt like a bastard and I didn't "like" it because of what it represented. While I didn't know the specifics, I knew that I had done some serious damage to my knee and in the short term my basketball days were at least on hold. And I walked around on it for a week before the doctor could see me (which amazed the staff but I found the pain tolerable).

However, let's fast forward the same incident. Because I needed surgery and then rehab, I met a very hot physical therapist who did things to me (as part of rehab) like electro-stimulation of the muscles. When they do that you are supposed to tell them when to stop turning up the voltage because it hurts. Well I always went way beyond that because I had built up this fantasy that she was torturing me for information. And the same thing with her strapping my leg to the table and then placing blocks under my ankle to force the knee straight (Tiger bench torture).

I had built up a whole fantasy around me being in a women's prison camp and her torturing me for information.

Now my Mistress never did any of those things to me but because of who I am, I created a fantasy around my rehab that gave me sexual gratification.

If my therapist had any clue as to WHY I was so into the harder parts of rehab and that after I left the facility had to get off in the car before I could drive away she'd probably be horrified.

It is certainly the fantasy that drove me, but it was built around the fact that certain types of pain give me sexual satisfaction.

However, hitting my finger with the hammer while driving nails (which I have done) isn't on that list.

kisses

willowfall
 
willowfall said:
I think to a certain extent one has to be tolerant of pain. Now tolerance levels and the definition of pain is different.

For example when I tore my ACL, it hurt like a bastard and I didn't "like" it because of what it represented. While I didn't know the specifics, I knew that I had done some serious damage to my knee and in the short term my basketball days were at least on hold. And I walked around on it for a week before the doctor could see me (which amazed the staff but I found the pain tolerable).

However, let's fast forward the same incident. Because I needed surgery and then rehab, I met a very hot physical therapist who did things to me (as part of rehab) like electro-stimulation of the muscles. When they do that you are supposed to tell them when to stop turning up the voltage because it hurts. Well I always went way beyond that because I had built up this fantasy that she was torturing me for information. And the same thing with her strapping my leg to the table and then placing blocks under my ankle to force the knee straight (Tiger bench torture).

I had built up a whole fantasy around me being in a women's prison camp and her torturing me for information.

Now my Mistress never did any of those things to me but because of who I am, I created a fantasy around my rehab that gave me sexual gratification.

If my therapist had any clue as to WHY I was so into the harder parts of rehab and that after I left the facility had to get off in the car before I could drive away she'd probably be horrified.

It is certainly the fantasy that drove me, but it was built around the fact that certain types of pain give me sexual satisfaction.

However, hitting my finger with the hammer while driving nails (which I have done) isn't on that list.

kisses

willowfall
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Interesting thoughts. And yet, there is a terrible opioid epidemic that is killing enough people to actually have a measurable effect on life expectancy, and most of the addicts started with prescriptions to relieve pain from one condition or another.

I believe there was some discussion of this on another thread where in response to the usual "crucifixion is the most painful way to die", I argued that there are almost certainly medical conditions that are far more painful than anything written about here and unquestionably can go on much longer-years vs. a couple of days. Yet they are not erotic in the slightest.

In response, someone (Eulalia, I believe) said that the eroticism comes less from the pain than from someone doing something to you, rather than your own body failing, that it's the situation that matters. Which I fully agree with. Domination and submission is really the key, more than pure pain. There is no P in BDSM...
 
Frank Petrexa said:
I did not see the movie, nor read the book on which it is based. One review I did read said that the book was "intensely boring"--repetitive in the extreme. I guess I am into nudity more than cruelty and pain--it's the display aspect of crucifixion that most interests me, and I get bored even on a steady diet of that. I suppose that like sports one can go deep into the psychology and the skill and maintain an interest, but most people don't go to every game every day.
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I totally agree ! The bdsm'interest do be in first, submitted to the level of pain that each of us can endure , and in second, to be made only when the attration is at the best : repetitions for repetitions have no sense for me ...
 
windar said:
In response, someone (Eulalia, I believe) said that the eroticism comes less from the pain than from someone doing something to you, rather than your own body failing, that it's the situation that matters. Which I fully agree with. Domination and submission is really the key, more than pure pain. There is no P in BDSM...
Click to expand...

Oh certainly. I have role played online being hung because that is what the guy wanted. While he seemed to find my 'performance' enjoyable I wasn't really into it.

I had a boyfriend who choked me (just once) but I didn't find anywhere near as sexually satisfying as being whipped.

And it is the whole submission thing. My fantasies are built around being a prisoner or slave, being forced. I'm not into the consensual thing. To me it is boring (which doesn't invalid the kink, it just isn't mine).

Same thing with BDSM without pain. I love when my Mistress ties me up and forces me to pleasure her with my mouth or rapes me with a strap on. I LOVE IT MORE if I have been whipped or spanked before hand (or during).

I think I have is a strange way a dual submissive personality. I am very aggressive on the sporting field, I won't back off in any way shape or form. But I will congratulate you if you best me, you've earned it, you were the better player (TODAY).

Sexually, I want to be dominated but you've got to prove to me you are worth it. I'm not giving it to you.

For what it is worth, I left the best male relationship I ever had (to this day I love that man) because he just couldn't get into BDSM. In many ways he is not only a gentleman but the best man I have ever known and I deeply loved him.

But because he wouldn't dominate me, I knew there was a side of me that wouldn't be fulfilled and that sooner or later that side of me would lead me to roam. And that would only hurt him and I love him too much to hurt him like that.

I think one of the things we truly find out on this board is that it isn't "one size fits all". Yet we are all tolerant even when we have differences, the world would be a better place if everyone was like that.

Yet they want to classify us as "bad"?

kisses

willowfall
 
willowfall said:
...And it is the whole submission thing. My fantasies are built around being a prisoner or slave, being forced. I'm not into the consensual thing. To me it is boring (which doesn't invalid the kink, it just isn't mine)...
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Yes, I agree that submission is the best of bdsm , but, perhaps have we not the same definition ; for me, submission is not in the way to a slave : we prefer the way of "O" who submits herself to the rule of her master ...
When Judith, my lover girl , after some whipping , is coming to caress me, to calm me ( for to whip me better later) I say to her : " Oh, Judith, continue, I want to suffer for you and by you !"
And, rassured, she whips me again ...
I'm not her slave litterally speaking : I'm a girl who gives herself her body for the satisfaction of Judith ... and for mine too because she brings to me the pleasure at the end and it's the best gift that we can do each other ...
Each of us has our kind of "working" and it's good like that ...
 
messaline said:
Yes, I agree that submission is the best of bdsm , but, perhaps have we not the same definition ; for me, submission is not in the way to a slave : we prefer the way of "O" who submits herself to the rule of her master ...
When Judith, my lover girl , after some whipping , is coming to caress me, to calm me ( for to whip me better later) I say to her : " Oh, Judith, continue, I want to suffer for you and by you !"
And, rassured, she whips me again ...
I'm not her slave litterally speaking : I'm a girl who gives herself her body for the satisfaction of Judith ... and for mine too because she brings to me the pleasure at the end and it's the best gift that we can do each other ...
Each of us has our kind of "working" and it's good like that ...
Click to expand...

I love many people in different ways. In my Mistress's case I not only love her but also see her as dominant over me. Not in a physical sense for I am far stronger than she is. There is something in her that I can not define that makes me want to be hers, to allow her to do with me what she will.

When I met her I was not seeking out a a dom\sub relationship. She was just another lesbian I found attractive, and then interesting and then compelling. In fact in our first "session" (which was after we started dating) I asked her to tie me to the bed and use me. Her response was "I thought you were never going to ask."

Like you said, I do it for her, because she is the one I want to do it for.

kisses

willowfall
 
Enjoy your fantasies...

Hurt no one and don't allow anyone to hurt you more than you desire.

I am not a fan of whipped female bodies but understand others are. Am I wrong? I doubt it. Are the others? No... Different views.
 
'Does it really matter what these affectionate people do —
so long as they don’t do it in the streets and frighten the horses!'

Mrs. Patrick Campbell, the first actress to play "Eliza Doolittle",
in George Bernard Shaw's Pygmalion (which was the inspiration for the musical My Fair Lady),
replying to a young actress who asserted that
an older actor in a production showed too much affection for the leading man (c. 1910)
 
This was an interesting thread to read, so far.
Can I be allowed me to put my two cents in?
OK, good. :)

Human nature, as evidently brought on by our evolution, is that we are a social species. It is what gave us our intelligence and the ability to express our "self awareness" (apart from our thumbs and utilization of fire).
As such our societies have evolved along with us. Practices that we deemed barbaric, like various forms of entertainment and execution are labeled as barbaric and unthinkable in most modern societies.

Never the less, atrocities happen, "evil" people exist and thoughtless acts are still committed against fellow human beings and to our planet every day. Statistically, however, human society today is the safest, most prosperous and most altruistic now than it has ever been in our entire history.

I've been a practitioner of self crucifixions since I was a teenager and when I was in college I was immersed in a close nit group of sexual enthusiasts and had both Sub and Dom relationships with a number of people.
The thing that we all had in common was, apart from our particular fetishes, we were able to separate fantasy from reality. All of us where law abiding citizens that partook in completely consensual acts with one another and if at any time anyone felt threatened, mistreated or just uncomfortable any action deemed unwarranted would cease immediately.
At our core we were all naturally kind, caring and altruist people that just so happened to have sexual desires we wanted to explore and never did anything illegal in order to explore them.

A healthy mind is able to analyze the emotions and desires it has and draw conclusions as to the "morality" of the thought.
Am I attracted to pictures and videos of girls being "crucified?" Yes I am, however, those girls are actresses and those scenes do not end in their deaths or major life threatening injuries. Same goes for any main-stream porn scene depicting BDSM practices, even those that can be labeled as "rape or torture porn."

But that's just me, what do ya'all think?
 
I'm not all that sure that - for all our intellectual progress - humans have changed fundamentally very much since we were emerging from life as primate apes (which we were doing for about 98% of our history as a distinct species!) The veneer of 'civilisation' may be a thin one, recognising the dark drives and feelings just underneath that surface may (I believe) help us to keep it more intact.

I do feel a lot of the things that arouse me - being hunted and chased, being captured and dominated, being exposed to males hanging from a branch (i.e. crucified), even being whipped, may go back to times when we females were pursued by the males and got pleasure and excitement from being the 'prey' of the alpha male.
 
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