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Nailing

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schandpfahl said:
Yes, thank you very much

I imagine the raising of the cross would be more painful for the delinquent , but this is only a theoretical question... as we have since long dismissed crucifixion as means of execution

Schandpfahl
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I think you're right. The shock of having nails driven through your wrists would be agonizing, but hanging helplessly with nothing but those nails to bear your weight had to be much worse. There might, and I emphasize might, be a period of panic and frenzied struggle as a victim was hit with all of that pain, followed with a kind of "coming to terms" with it, settling down, resignation, and of course exhaustion. They might might faint and might go into shock. You can't generalize, because everyone is different.

However bad the pain might have been, a victim had to deal with it somehow because we know that they hung and suffered for a long time on the cross before they finally expired.
 
jedakk said:
I think you're right. The shock of having nails driven through your wrists would be agonizing, but hanging helplessly with nothing but those nails to bear your weight had to be much worse. There might, and I emphasize might, be a period of panic and frenzied struggle as a victim was hit with all of that pain, followed with a kind of "coming to terms" with it, settling down, resignation, and of course exhaustion. They might might faint and might go into shock. You can't generalize, because everyone is different.

However bad the pain might have been, a victim had to deal with it somehow because we know that they hung and suffered for a long time on the cross before they finally expired.
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can you imagine the feeling of bearing unbearable pain?
 
naildance said:
can you imagine the feeling of bearing unbearable pain?
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I have experienced some really bad pain in the last 68 years, broken bones, severe burns - I have a scar from the back of my right hand to halfway up to the elbow. Pinched nerves in my back which are now ok, but I remember thinking that I needed to scream, but it wouldn't do any good. Imagine months of that, 24/7, with sudden spikes of agony that periodically gripped me and made it impossible to move.

And don't underestimate the agony of an infected tooth; I could easily imagine pulling one of those myself with a pair of pliers if it would make the pain stop. And that is the definition of unbearable: It's more than you can bear, and you have to do something about it even if that something is negative in itself. Trading unbearable pain for pain that is at least bearable.

I wouldn't wish any of that on anyone, other than certain people who really deserve it. But the answer is yes, I think I can imagine and even remember unbearable pain, pain so bad that you don't want to move, but you have to, have to try to find some position that doesn't hurt so much.

The thing about pain is that we experience it in different ways depending, among other things, on our outlook. A woman giving birth looks forward to the new child she is bringing forth into the world. There's a positive aspect to her pain, a goal to be attained, and maybe it doesn't seem so bad. A woman on a cross can only look forward to an end to her suffering, hoping it will be soon, but terrified of dying nevertheless.

It's not about how our nervous systems register the pain - nociception - but how our minds process it and put it into context. So a woman crucified as a Christian in ancient Rome might have felt that her pain had a purpose and a positive outcome, while another who was crucified as a runaway slave might have perceived her agony as only punishment.
 
jedakk said:
I have experienced some really bad pain in the last 68 years, broken bones, severe burns - I have a scar from the back of my right hand to halfway up to the elbow. Pinched nerves in my back which are now ok, but I remember thinking that I needed to scream, but it wouldn't do any good. Imagine months of that, 24/7, with sudden spikes of agony that periodically gripped me and made it impossible to move.

And don't underestimate the agony of an infected tooth; I could easily imagine pulling one of those myself with a pair of pliers if it would make the pain stop. And that is the definition of unbearable: It's more than you can bear, and you have to do something about it even if that something is negative in itself. Trading unbearable pain for pain that is at least bearable.

I wouldn't wish any of that on anyone, other than certain people who really deserve it. But the answer is yes, I think I can imagine and even remember unbearable pain, pain so bad that you don't want to move, but you have to, have to try to find some position that doesn't hurt so much.

The thing about pain is that we experience it in different ways depending, among other things, on our outlook. A woman giving birth looks forward to the new child she is bringing forth into the world. There's a positive aspect to her pain, a goal to be attained, and maybe it doesn't seem so bad. A woman on a cross can only look forward to an end to her suffering, hoping it will be soon, but terrified of dying nevertheless.

It's not about how our nervous systems register the pain - nociception - but how our minds process it and put it into context. So a woman crucified as a Christian in ancient Rome might have felt that her pain had a purpose and a positive outcome, while another who was crucified as a runaway slave might have perceived her agony as only punishment.
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And to a woman wrongly accused ... as yet an added injustice! :confused:
 
jedakk said:
I have experienced some really bad pain in the last 68 years, broken bones, severe burns - I have a scar from the back of my right hand to halfway up to the elbow. Pinched nerves in my back which are now ok, but I remember thinking that I needed to scream, but it wouldn't do any good. Imagine months of that, 24/7, with sudden spikes of agony that periodically gripped me and made it impossible to move.

And don't underestimate the agony of an infected tooth; I could easily imagine pulling one of those myself with a pair of pliers if it would make the pain stop. And that is the definition of unbearable: It's more than you can bear, and you have to do something about it even if that something is negative in itself. Trading unbearable pain for pain that is at least bearable.

I wouldn't wish any of that on anyone, other than certain people who really deserve it. But the answer is yes, I think I can imagine and even remember unbearable pain, pain so bad that you don't want to move, but you have to, have to try to find some position that doesn't hurt so much.

The thing about pain is that we experience it in different ways depending, among other things, on our outlook. A woman giving birth looks forward to the new child she is bringing forth into the world. There's a positive aspect to her pain, a goal to be attained, and maybe it doesn't seem so bad. A woman on a cross can only look forward to an end to her suffering, hoping it will be soon, but terrified of dying nevertheless.

It's not about how our nervous systems register the pain - nociception - but how our minds process it and put it into context. So a woman crucified as a Christian in ancient Rome might have felt that her pain had a purpose and a positive outcome, while another who was crucified as a runaway slave might have perceived her agony as only punishment.
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Pain is certainly subjective and depends on the situation as you point out and also on the person. Here is a by no means definitive list of the 15 most painful things one can experience https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-most-painful-thing-in-world. Crucifixion, not surprisingly, didn't make the list.

Certainly all of these conditions in our time would be treated with painkillers and treatments to address the root cause. But at the time crucifixions were going on, there was likely minimal treatment available. So, who can say with any certainty? Not me, for sure. And may it stay that way...
 
jedakk said:
I have experienced some really bad pain in the last 68 years, broken bones, severe burns - I have a scar from the back of my right hand to halfway up to the elbow. Pinched nerves in my back which are now ok, but I remember thinking that I needed to scream, but it wouldn't do any good. Imagine months of that, 24/7, with sudden spikes of agony that periodically gripped me and made it impossible to move.

And don't underestimate the agony of an infected tooth; I could easily imagine pulling one of those myself with a pair of pliers if it would make the pain stop. And that is the definition of unbearable: It's more than you can bear, and you have to do something about it even if that something is negative in itself. Trading unbearable pain for pain that is at least bearable.

I wouldn't wish any of that on anyone, other than certain people who really deserve it. But the answer is yes, I think I can imagine and even remember unbearable pain, pain so bad that you don't want to move, but you have to, have to try to find some position that doesn't hurt so much.

The thing about pain is that we experience it in different ways depending, among other things, on our outlook. A woman giving birth looks forward to the new child she is bringing forth into the world. There's a positive aspect to her pain, a goal to be attained, and maybe it doesn't seem so bad. A woman on a cross can only look forward to an end to her suffering, hoping it will be soon, but terrified of dying nevertheless.

It's not about how our nervous systems register the pain - nociception - but how our minds process it and put it into context. So a woman crucified as a Christian in ancient Rome might have felt that her pain had a purpose and a positive outcome, while another who was crucified as a runaway slave might have perceived her agony as only punishment.
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I've already had an infected tooth, burns and so on, but is such feeling really comparable with the pain of a crucified person hanging by nails? I even once had my left wrist broken, I felt the pain before it was bandaged, but I cannot imagine the feeling of hanging on nails held by wrist bones or splintered foot bones. When pain is growing slowly, I have sometimes the feeling of a possibility to switch it off, so it changes even to a pleasurable feeling, but is this possible when muscles are cramping more and more and start to tremble, and the wounds around the nails start to widen? I can imagine a footstep in a nail, but when hammering nails in my flesh, I can imagine to fade away, i cannot imagine how it feels when a square nail is grating nerves, tendons and bones. Can you describe a similar feeling?
 
Pain is a very complex business - the electro-chemical events that transmit the sensation to your brain, and the reactions it provokes in your body - your affective, subconscious, emotional disposition to feel and react to pain, your conscious, cognitive responses to it - these last two categories varying a great deal from one person to another, and maybe in different genders, ages, cultures etc. The acute pain of being nailed, and the shock of the initial hanging, would be a different kind of pain from the long-term strain and gradual deterioration of your body's ability to cope; the agony would surely be increased by your sense of complete helplessness and inability to pull yourself away from the source of the pain, and the awareness that you're surrounded by people who have no intention of helping you, every wish to make things even worse. In practice, I think anyone being crucified with nails would go through phases of more or less unconsciousness, or delirium, and experience increasing loss of feeling - especially in the arms, becoming numb. Not that that would make it an easy ride, far from it!
 
Eulalia said:
Pain is a very complex business - the electro-chemical events that transmit the sensation to your brain, and the reactions it provokes in your body - your affective, subconscious, emotional disposition to feel and react to pain, your conscious, cognitive responses to it - these last two categories varying a great deal from one person to another, and maybe in different genders, ages, cultures etc. The acute pain of being nailed, and the shock of the initial hanging, would be a different kind of pain from the long-term strain and gradual deterioration of your body's ability to cope; the agony would surely be increased by your sense of complete helplessness and inability to pull yourself away from the source of the pain, and the awareness that you're surrounded by people who have no intention of helping you, every wish to make things even worse. In practice, I think anyone being crucified with nails would go through phases of more or less unconsciousness, or delirium, and experience increasing loss of feeling - especially in the arms, becoming numb. Not that that would make it an easy ride, far from it!
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I think that sums it up nicely (or scarily). ;)
 
messaline said:
Hum, I think that it could be a "dream" for many people there ...
But let that into the DREAM DOMAIN !
... otherwise, we could be not crucified again and again ... It would be a pity !!!:(
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You are right indeed. It would be only a possibility if you know sure that you have only few weeks remaining to live, and who is knowing sure?
 
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