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Historical Basis for Casually Nude or Topless Slave/Harem Girls

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Cran

Cran

Governor
Is there any real historical precedent for female slaves or servants being required to be nude or topless in everyday life, as a form of sexual objectification, even in non sexual contexts, such as serving food.
I understand that in ancient Egypt, female servants danced naked, but that the oriental imagery of naked harem girls is a fabrication by the west.
I never watched the Spartacus TV series, but I saw that it features topless slave girls in causal settings. Were Romans served by topless girls like this, or did the show make that up.
 
Well in pictures of ancient Egypt or Greece we often see half-nude or nude slaves. Male and female slaves in sexual and non-sexual context.

But we cannot be sure is this a picture of the reallity or is it made by artists to underline the degradation of that people.

For instance there are reliefs where we can see a Pharao whipping a group of bound and naked negro men. We know they were prisoners of war who were sold in slavery. The relief is made to show the power of the Pharao.

I also remember a foto of a negro slave who was captured after he run away from his master. The young male slave is shown nude, his hands are handcuffed in front of his body. We see wounds all over his body and around him there are many white men.

So I think it was common to strip slaves naked to degrade and punish them. But if they where hold naked every day?
 
Dauphin said:
Well in pictures of ancient Egypt or Greece we often see half-nude or nude slaves. Male and female slaves in sexual and non-sexual context.

But we cannot be sure is this a picture of the reallity or is it made by artists to underline the degradation of that people.

For instance there are reliefs where we can see a Pharao whipping a group of bound and naked negro men. We know they were prisoners of war who were sold in slavery. The relief is made to show the power of the Pharao.

I also remember a foto of a negro slave who was captured after he run away from his master. The young male slave is shown nude, his hands are handcuffed in front of his body. We see wounds all over his body and around him there are many white men.

So I think it was common to strip slaves naked to degrade and punish them. But if they where hold naked every day?
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I was thinking of female slaves, where they are kept naked or topless as a form of sexual objectification rather than just degradation. Not necessarily sex slaves, but slaves who perform domestic labor. They don't perform a sexual role, but they are still naked for visual appeal.
 
Dauphin said:
Well in pictures of ancient Egypt or Greece we often see half-nude or nude slaves. Male and female slaves in sexual and non-sexual context.

But we cannot be sure is this a picture of the reallity or is it made by artists to underline the degradation of that people.

For instance there are reliefs where we can see a Pharao whipping a group of bound and naked negro men. We know they were prisoners of war who were sold in slavery. The relief is made to show the power of the Pharao.

I also remember a foto of a negro slave who was captured after he run away from his master. The young male slave is shown nude, his hands are handcuffed in front of his body. We see wounds all over his body and around him there are many white men.

So I think it was common to strip slaves naked to degrade and punish them. But if they where hold naked every day?
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It is established, that the Pharaoh made a public masturbation, at a festival, to fertilise the nile. So I do not see a degradation to be nude, if the CEO masturbate in the public But just my opinion.
 
There's no doubt that in many human societies, women having breasts bare was considered quite normal and acceptable, as shown for example in the art of ancient Egypt (at least and certain periods - the term covers a huge length of time), and at least girl dancers, acrobats and athletes in Minoan Crete, Greece, Etruria, etc. - no need to suppose they were experiencing humiliation or sexual exploitation. And bear in mind that, in societies where nudity, or indeed showing almost any part of the female body, was frowned on, it wasn't necessarily the woman who was 'humiliated' if she was exposed, there was often a sense that those who saw her, especially the men, would be polluted by the sight.
 
Eulalia said:
There's no doubt that in many human societies, women having breasts bare was considered quite normal and acceptable, as shown for example in the art of ancient Egypt (at least and certain periods - the term covers a huge length of time), and at least girl dancers, acrobats and athletes in Minoan Crete, Greece, Etruria, etc. - no need to suppose they were experiencing humiliation or sexual exploitation.
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Not to mention all of those tribes featured in National Geographic...
 
And there is always ancient India (prior to Mogol and Turk invasions) where it was customary for the high society women to go topless as a sign of respect in respectable company--while the maids and slavegirls were required to cover themselves up. I recall a story from the early Buddhist sutras where a princess was receiving someone highly esteemed but had to come out wearing a top because of a skin rash or something. At some point during the meeting, she felt obliged to bear her breasts in order to make sure proper respect was paid to the honored guest.

Now that's definitely a custom we should revive in our pursuit for cultural diversity!
 
MahaShiva said:
And there is always ancient India (prior to Mogol and Turk invasions) where it was customary for the high society women to go topless as a sign of respect in respectable company--while the maids and slavegirls were required to cover themselves up. I recall a story from the early Buddhist sutras where a princess was receiving someone highly esteemed but had to come out wearing a top because of a skin rash or something. At some point during the meeting, she felt obliged to bear her breasts in order to make sure proper respect was paid to the honored guest.

Now that's definitely a custom we should revive in our pursuit for cultural diversity!
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I think it is already changing that "high-society" can be nude, while slaves have to cover themselves, even not allowed to show their face.
 
Eulalia said:
There's no doubt that in many human societies, women having breasts bare was considered quite normal and acceptable, as shown for example in the art of ancient Egypt (at least and certain periods - the term covers a huge length of time), and at least girl dancers, acrobats and athletes in Minoan Crete, Greece, Etruria, etc. - no need to suppose they were experiencing humiliation or sexual exploitation. And bear in mind that, in societies where nudity, or indeed showing almost any part of the female body, was frowned on, it wasn't necessarily the woman who was 'humiliated' if she was exposed, there was often a sense that those who saw her, especially the men, would be polluted by the sight.
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windar said:
Not to mention all of those tribes featured in National Geographic...
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And it's not always parts like the breasts that are "problematic". In parts of Melanesia, as I understand it, it is traditional for women and girls to go topless, but they wear long-ish grass skirts because women showing leg above the knee is considered indecent.
 
Eulalia said:
There's no doubt that in many human societies, women having breasts bare was considered quite normal and acceptable, as shown for example in the art of ancient Egypt (at least and certain periods - the term covers a huge length of time), and at least girl dancers, acrobats and athletes in Minoan Crete, Greece, Etruria, etc. - no need to suppose they were experiencing humiliation or sexual exploitation. And bear in mind that, in societies where nudity, or indeed showing almost any part of the female body, was frowned on, it wasn't necessarily the woman who was 'humiliated' if she was exposed, there was often a sense that those who saw her, especially the men, would be polluted by the sight.
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Did the Romans have topless domestic slaves like in Spartacus?
I like the idea of slaves and servants who even though don't serve a sexual role, are still kept naked or partially naked as a form of objectification.
MahaShiva said:
And there is always ancient India (prior to Mogol and Turk invasions) where it was customary for the high society women to go topless as a sign of respect in respectable company--while the maids and slavegirls were required to cover themselves up. I recall a story from the early Buddhist sutras where a princess was receiving someone highly esteemed but had to come out wearing a top because of a skin rash or something. At some point during the meeting, she felt obliged to bear her breasts in order to make sure proper respect was paid to the honored guest.

Now that's definitely a custom we should revive in our pursuit for cultural diversity!
Click to expand...
This is like the reverse, where lower caste Hindu women were taxed for covering there breasts years later
 
MahaShiva said:
And there is always ancient India (prior to Mogol and Turk invasions) where it was customary for the high society women to go topless as a sign of respect in respectable company--while the maids and slavegirls were required to cover themselves up. I recall a story from the early Buddhist sutras where a princess was receiving someone highly esteemed but had to come out wearing a top because of a skin rash or something. At some point during the meeting, she felt obliged to bear her breasts in order to make sure proper respect was paid to the honored guest.

Now that's definitely a custom we should revive in our pursuit for cultural diversity!
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This absolutely needs to become a thing again.
 
Baron Von Sade said:
This absolutely needs to become a thing again.
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I think we will get crucified before that happens. I was growing up in the 1970s in Europe. And that time there was more and more nudity. There were streakers at sport events ( males and females running nude over a soccer field or alike), at bathing place the bathing suits get shorter, there were more bikinis, when time goes on female didn't used the upper part anymore. I also noted that males, not the females, did some swim trunk changes without going to changing rooms. So I figured out, that probably around 2000 we would all swim naked, but that did not happen.
 
I suppose it's another case where fantasy and reality diverge. As many of you probably would know, I have a very strong preference for such a fantasy which involves extreme objectification and degradation of women. But even in this niche community, it's not something unanimously agreed upon by all our members, not to mention of people outside CF.

As such, I doubt if there was a historical form of slavery in which most of the slave owners had a particular interest in objectifying or humiliating their female slaves. I suppose it'd be more reasonable to assume that they had a more or less similar proportion of those who have this particular kinks as we have in our contemporary society, in which case they would have preferred to don their female slaves according to their "vanilla" taste, or practical needs.
 
fallenmystic said:
As such, I doubt if there was a historical form of slavery in which most of the slave owners had a particular interest in objectifying or humiliating their female slaves. I suppose it'd be more reasonable to assume that they had a more or less similar proportion of those who have this particular kinks as we have in our contemporary society, in which case they would have preferred to don their female slaves according to their "vanilla" taste, or practical needs.
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Yeah, I agree with you.

Of course its a great imagination that slaves were hold naked. That they was forced to show the most private parts of their body to every man. Like today the girls in sexclubs need to offer their naked bodys to the customers. There are wonderful places like that in Thailand, the Filipines or other asian hotspots for sextourists. There the men can check the naked girls and buy them like real slaves.

So maybe in roman brothels we can expect the same. For sure when the roman upper class enjoyed sex orgies they used naked servants for pleasure. We know that very young slaves had to perform public sexshows at the roman theaters. I heard about in Arles in the South of France where we find a big theater from roman times.

But in private houses the slaves had to work hard. I cannot imagine that roman women enjoyed all the time to see wonderful young slave girls naked around the house. And why a slave owner should risk that his best slave girls were raped by other slaves or free men?
 
MahaShiva said:
And there is always ancient India (prior to Mogol and Turk invasions) where it was customary for the high society women to go topless as a sign of respect in respectable company--while the maids and slavegirls were required to cover themselves up. I recall a story from the early Buddhist sutras where a princess was receiving someone highly esteemed but had to come out wearing a top because of a skin rash or something. At some point during the meeting, she felt obliged to bear her breasts in order to make sure proper respect was paid to the honored guest.

Now that's definitely a custom we should revive in our pursuit for cultural diversity!
Click to expand...
Depends on how attractive the breasts and women are!!
 
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