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Roman Soldiers Doing the Cruxing

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In many of our stories (I've done it myself) and our art we have the Legionaries doing the cruxing.

As I mull over hsitorical records in my mind I think I am starting to doubt how involved the regular Roman army may have been in cruxing on a daily basis.

Think about it. Augustus established the strength of the Roman Legions at 28 shortly after being proclaimed Emperor. Most of those he posted to the borders of the Empire (and then promptly lost three of them in 9 BCE).

Now the borders are way out of the way of most of the population.

Even those posted in 'civilized' territory had a maximum of 5,000 Legionaries (at full strength). Even for a small country like Palestine that's not a lot of men spread out over a significant amount of territory. Then you have to subtract from that number because nobody from centurion on up is going to do the manual labor involved in cruxing someone.

To complicate the matter the Romans didn't invent cruxing (many med cultures had used it for centuries: ex: the Phonicians) and the Arabs used it as a form of execution until about 922 BCE so the 'knowledge' necessary to do the job was pretty wide spread.

So basically I've come to the conclusion that your local law enforcement guys and auxilaries are getting short changed in credit due for cruxing most of the victims in the Roman Era.

Thoughts anybody?

Kisses

willowfall
 
willowfall said:
So basically I've come to the conclusion that your local law enforcement guys and auxilaries are getting short changed in credit due for cruxing most of the victims in the Roman Era.

Thoughts anybody?

Kisses

willowfall

Willowfall, it probably wasn't even The Authorities who did most crucifixions. There were no police in the modern sense, and until the second century C.E. slaves had no legal protections at all.

Attached find an advertisement, found carved in stone from around 100 C.E. You will note the contractor ". . . is to set up crosses and supply without charge nails, pitch, wax, tapers and anything else that is necessary for this in order to deal with the condemned man."

Nails I understand. But what the heck were they going to do wth pitch, wax, and tapers?

Bad Things, of course. But it really does sound like an over-the-top BDSM scene, with nary a safe word in sight.

In any case, I think Yusebby gets it right with his brutal yet whimsical drawings. No Military Might Of Rome types, just some working stiffs doing a job. A job they've done so often that they're blasé about a naked girl nailed to a cross.
 

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Apostate dear you are such a love.

But you need to increase your knowledge of how the Roman Empire actually functioned.

Of course there wasn't a 'police' force.

The way Rome kept control of most of the empire was through client rulers. Local men of authority (for example Herod the Great) who used local military forces to keep control of the situation.

So for example the local armed men responsible for keeping the peace in Jeruselum woul dhave been jews (or non-jewish Palestinians) armed and equipped according to local custom. There would not have been enough of them to represent a serious threat to Roman rule (althought they could form the nucleus of a popular revolt) but there would have been enough of them to keep the peace and enforce the authority of the local ruler.

As a further example, Zenobia of Palmyra had enough local troops on hand, due to Palmyra being a border region, to form two legions worth of soldiers (about 10,000 men).

It is these forces that spent most of their time executing criminals.

Now slaves were a different issue. A disobedient slave was not a municiple problem but a personal problem for the owner. he would have had to deal with them himself. Thus the 'ad' for a local contractor.

I'm quite sure form time to time it was also expedient for a local muncipality to hire a contractor for a politically sensitive job.

kisses

willowfall
 
The Romans also made heavy use of what they called "auxiliary" forces--foreign soldiers from, say, Syria, who would be stationed in Jerusalem. Any crucifixion resulting from a court-ordered sentence of death would have a small military presence to run things, but the auxiliaries--who also functioned as a police force in conquered territories--would do the actual job. So it wouldn't be out of place to depict the Roman military in the act of crucifying someone. This auxiliary force would be something like the French Foreign Legion--members can come from anywhere, but they are never posted in their home countries, and they always have French officers. It would be the same way with the Romans.
 
Hammerlock said:
The Romans also made heavy use of what they called "auxiliary" forces--foreign soldiers from, say, Syria, who would be stationed in Jerusalem. Any crucifixion resulting from a court-ordered sentence of death would have a small military presence to run things, but the auxiliaries--who also functioned as a police force in conquered territories--would do the actual job. So it wouldn't be out of place to depict the Roman military in the act of crucifying someone. This auxiliary force would be something like the French Foreign Legion--members can come from anywhere, but they are never posted in their home countries, and they always have French officers. It would be the same way with the Romans.


true but most of the auxilliary forces (Italian Troops being an exception) were armed and equipped on a 'native' model.

Thus Syrian troops would be armed and dressed like Syrians not Romans. Or Greeks like Greeks, etc.

Also the troops belonging to the local rulers (like Herod the Great) would be armed and dressed as Palestinians (not everybody in Palestine was a Jew).

We have to consider that the New Testament accounts were cleaned up some to prevent anybody local from looking bad in favor of the big bad central government. Also since the Empire periodical launched pogroms against the Christians it was easier to make them look like the long standing villian instead of the local boys.

kisses

willowfall
 
apostate630 said:
willowfall said:
So basically I've come to the conclusion that your local law enforcement guys and auxilaries are getting short changed in credit due for cruxing most of the victims in the Roman Era.

Thoughts anybody?

Kisses

willowfall

Willowfall, it probably wasn't even The Authorities who did most crucifixions. There were no police in the modern sense, and until the second century C.E. slaves had no legal protections at all.

Attached find an advertisement, found carved in stone from around 100 C.E. You will note the contractor ". . . is to set up crosses and supply without charge nails, pitch, wax, tapers and anything else that is necessary for this in order to deal with the condemned man."

Nails I understand. But what the heck were they going to do wth pitch, wax, and tapers?

Bad Things, of course. But it really does sound like an over-the-top BDSM scene, with nary a safe word in sight.

In any case, I think Yusebby gets it right with his brutal yet whimsical drawings. No Military Might Of Rome types, just some working stiffs doing a job. A job they've done so often that they're blasé about a naked girl nailed to a cross.

Apostate, I googled the phrase "is to set up... condemned man" and found in google books "Roman Household: A Sourcebook" which includes this very language as part of a regulation for undertakers and execution contractors! Nails, pitch, wax and tapers were part of the required standard equipment. From this I may have just figured out the construction of most cornus: the tapers were wooden pegs of varying heights and diameters each with a convex curve tapering to a (probably rounded) point; the wax was used to provide a smooth surface to prevent internal damage thereby extending the condemned's time on the crux; and the pitch was used for lubricant. They didn't have rubber dildos or modern lube back then so the method I described would be an effective way of sexually humiliating the condemned by sparking and sustaining his or her physiological sexual response. And the crowds would just eat it up!
 
No idea what the candles, wax and pitch might have been for, perhaps for tortures accompanying crucifixion or simply for light while guarding the victims during the night while they still lived on the cross. Pitch was used for torches, after all. This link: http://www.ostia-antica.org/regio1/13/13-6.htm has a line-by-line translation of the original Latin inscription with its accompanying English. The Latin word that is in question is "candelas". My Latin is pretty rudimentary, but it sure looks like they're talking about candles.


Jedakk
 
Going up a few posts regarding the soldiers doing the cruxing. I doubt if soldiers did that sort of thing, unless they were going to crucify lots of people on campaign, such as the 70 AD seige of Jerusalem.

Regardless, even if they did, you wouldn't see them wearing armor and helmut. That kinda stuff was probably only worn imediately before combat or in parades. Yet, you see it quite often. I think some of the better artist like Tissot, who portrayed Crucifixion and spet years researching it on location, got it right.

I'm no expert by any means, but it just makes sense to me. GR
 
jedakk said:
No idea what the candles, wax and pitch might have been for, perhaps for tortures accompanying crucifixion or simply for light while guarding the victims during the night while they still lived on the cross. Pitch was used for torches, after all. This link: http://www.ostia-antica.org/regio1/13/13-6.htm has a line-by-line translation of the original Latin inscription with its accompanying English. The Latin word that is in question is "candelas". My Latin is pretty rudimentary, but it sure looks like they're talking about candles.


Jedakk
My Latin is pretty rudimentary, too, Jedakk. Thank you! You are right about the nighttime guarding (my bad!). Candelas does look like it could mean candle although it could also be a wax-light or a taper ( http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/mor ... elas&la=la ). Considering that the contractor also has to bring the wax, I am leaning in favor of the wax-light and candles, not any wooden taper that would serve for the cornu (facepalm!).

And I think pitch definitely would be used for torches to keep the bugs away from the guards! Who cares about the crucified, was the attitude, he'll be dead anyway! And using pitch for torture is a possibility; the ancients mentioned the use of fire for torturing those condemned to ride the cross. Slap some pitch on the skin and use a candle to set it alight. Ouch!

I'm glad this inscription was found. Another piece of the slim non-literary archaeological evidence that Romans crucified people for punishment. Thanks for the link!
 
Pitch was also used to cover wounds and stop bleeding, in some cases up into the mid-19th century that I've read. That could be another reason they would need to have it handy, in case the executioners needed to stop a bleeding wound that might otherwise cause the victim to expire before suffering sufficiently. An example might be where they would castrate a victim and then need to patch the wound, although in my experience removing testicles doesn't cause really serious bleeding. It could also be used to coat the base of a stipes where it went into the ground to prevent rotting and termite damage, but I think that is pretty unlikely. Pitch, as used by the Romans, was a mixture of boiled pine sap and powdered charcoal.

I'm still stymied by the need for wax. The only thing I can think of is for waxing the ropes used to raise the patibulum and victim so they would slip more freely over whatever rigging they were using for lifting. Another possibility would be to lubricate wooden pulleys if they used those.


Jedakk
 
jedakk said:
Pitch was also used to cover wounds and stop bleeding, in some cases up into the mid-19th century that I've read. That could be another reason they would need to have it handy, in case the executioners needed to stop a bleeding wound that might otherwise cause the victim to expire before suffering sufficiently. An example might be where they would castrate a victim and then need to patch the wound, although in my experience removing testicles doesn't cause really serious bleeding. It could also be used to coat the base of a stipes where it went into the ground to prevent rotting and termite damage, but I think that is pretty unlikely. Pitch, as used by the Romans, was a mixture of boiled pine sap and powdered charcoal.

I'm still stymied by the need for wax. The only thing I can think of is for waxing the ropes used to raise the patibulum and victim so they would slip more freely over whatever rigging they were using for lifting. Another possibility would be to lubricate wooden pulleys if they used those.


Jedakk
Yes, they could have used wax to was the ropes for the reason you stated and also to keep the rope from fraying. It may have been that ropes were used over and over not only to lift a patibulum up onto the stipes of a crux immissa with the condemned attached to it but also to raise really tall crosses (empty stipes or fully assembled and "occupied" crosses)
 
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The captured slave pair



The catcher in the tavern of Claudius Palo


The door of the tavern on the road to Capua, was energetically open. Heavy footsteps entered the Legionaries five exhalations laden with dining room. Unusual silence reigned once. The ground still noisy exuberance was suddenly given way to paralyzing terror. That could mean anything good. The Legionaries dominated the room with their superior self-confidence, their vast power and no peremptory violence. They held massive stick in her large hands, the swords were in their sheaths.


"Everyone stays in its place!" seized the commanding sergeant the word. Unnecessary, because all the guests was so moved at the onset of the Legionaries of fright in the limbs, that they escaped not a word, apart from a drunken buffoon, who received the Legion with exaggerated politeness. "Welcome brave centurion! The subjects of the emperor pleased ...." He got no further. At a sign from the sergeant a stick whizzed on the shoulder of cheeky drunkard. With a chuckle, declined taken to the ground.


"Just to clarify, here you have to collect only the word when one is asked," the sergeant said gruffly.


"Who is the owner of that smelly dive bar?"


Submissive, a man approached in dirty clothes.


"Claudius Palo, at your service, Sergeant!"


"To hear Claudius Palo, the aediles was reported that two young runaway slaves to stay in your tavern., I'm here to see that."


"There are few foreigners present Lord."


"You will understand that I have the check yet exactly."


At a sign from the sergeant down, wiped one of the legionnaires on the closest to the table. The two seated men in mind, just could not save the wine jug and their cups. Plate and bowl flew to the ground. The Legionnaires attacked the table and placed it next to the front door.


"Will no one to offer the venerable Principalis Pliny Humanus a place?" asked one of the Legionaries in the room.


The closest fitting guest got up quickly and handed his stool toward the table.

Honored took the Principalis the gesture of submission note.


"We will now undergo all present a check here. And because you have no more seats, you get the privilege that we start with you."


One of the Legionaries had a large round basket with flat bottom parked beside the table, behind which the Principalis had taken place. At his side a legionnaire took up a position, a guard the door and the two remaining dominated with their clubs inside the tavern.


"If zoom!"


"Carus, the load carrier, born free. Principalis At your service!"


"Off", succinctly rang the command of Principalis.


"Uh, what? Here in front of everyone?"


Without any warning, the stick of the Sentinel from behind rushed to the back of Carus.


"Obey you scoundrel!"

Carus let out the air from the lungs, so he could not cry out. The pain was yeasty and he slumped briefly together and fell to his knees.


"High with you," he heard as if through a fog. He was close to fainting, but so far in his senses that he groaning rose and took off his belt on the table. The assistive Legionnaire checked it and found inside it a few older coins from the Republican period.


"What have we here? A Republican?"


"No, sir, these are my savings."


"Nevertheless, there are invalid instrument, which are subject to confiscation."


With a practiced flick of the coins disappeared into the bag of Principalis.


"Next, we do not want to stay here forever!"


Carus took off his tunic and was only in a loincloth wearing front of the table. The audit revealed no findings of the garment. She landed in the basket, as the belt also.


"Now come on!"

Coy was Carus slide the skirt down.


"Ha, Jew, or what?" exclaimed the Principalis when looking at the trimmed element of Carus. Bright shone his exposed glans from the table.


Giggle was heard from the room. A woman appeared to have never seen a circumcised penis.


"Quiet!"


At the moment there was silence again.


"Arms high and turn, but not so fast!" Came a harsh command, which followed Carus immediately.


The wizard examined his body after fire painting, how it burned slaves to the skin. Neither on the chest, shoulder, upper arm or buttocks there were fire sign. Only the back was red and swollen where the stick had hit him.


"Alright. The is clean." was heard the assistant.


"Snap your things and get out with you!"


Carus that could not be told twice, even though he had to step naked into the street, where already a group had gathered funny-looking rascals and idlers. The people rejoiced and amusing themselves, to the shame of the beaten Carius.


"Next!"


So six further guests the dive were controlled. Everyone followed on's word commands. The lesson, which was issued Carus, scored their impact at all the others. Every now and then stroked the Principalis one a few coins. Further, nothing special happened.


Now came the turn of the giggling woman. From outside you could look good in the tavern, because the door was open. They needed yes to search for slaves painting the light. Now they all pressed, just to see as much as possible to get. The strongest men conquered the best seats.


The cheeky woman was middle-aged but by no means unattractive. She was lavishly built, how many men liked it. As you had filed belt and tunic, staring at the gaping crowd to its full, low hanging tits. Principalis Pliny Humanus clucked his tongue. he found the lush woman quite attractive. He noticed as he got a hard on and threatened to overwhelm him with lust. He tried to hide it, but also noted that it was similar to his legionaries. The investigation was not as superficial as in the men so far. They wanted to enjoy some, too, if one has already been used for such unpopular services. To see naked men who likes that? But this buxom wench, which was a pleasant change of pace. The woman seemed on the one hand to be ashamed of, on the other hand, there seemed to arouse too. She demurred, let down the skirt. Pliny Humanus made a gesture, which understood the woman. She untied the ribbon and the wide skirt slid down. He bared a powerful, well-formed buttocks and a dark pubic hair. She stood naked, with gesektem head before the legionaries, the eyes exposed to the onlookers. Their attempts to cover the breasts with their wide long hair should not succeed. The assistant handed her a short rope and ordered: "hair tie up".


The woman did not dare to contradict. Wordlessly, she obeyed the command. Those present considered her naked body. She could during the hair high binding, cover neither breast nor shame. When raising the arms to the lush chest heaved. A spectacle worth seeing. Unfortunately, the hair was tied up too quickly, found legionaries and the mob.


"Name?" Asked the assistant.


"Livilla Demus, daughter of Livy, Sattler, here in the city, 35 years, widowed."


It pushed the impression that they are so fast hersgte the full data because they wanted to abbreviate the Prozdere.


"What does an honorable citizen in such a tavern and in the early afternoon?" Pliny Humanus asked with interest.


"It is a coincidence that I'm here. My father has asked me to look here a leather supplier. He received a large order of the Legion and need for skins."


"And found, supplier?"


"Yes, he left shortly before your arrival the tavern and rushed to his camp."


"Very well. Raise your arms so that we can look for slaves painting!"


Pliny Humanus took the opportunity to carry out the control of Livilla itself. He took this time.


"Arms rotate up and slow!" Rang out again by the statement.


Livilla turned, noted a certain excitement. You could also volunteer delivered the stately Principalis. Secretly she wanted to be touched by his strong hands.


Pliny Humanus tried in the fire and his lust to suppress the extent that the bystanders mitbekamen nothing about it. In vain, he could not hide his pleasure. But he was so much respected person that none of the mob of Legionnaires dared to let fall a word about it. With envy and often with open mouths, they pursued the inspection of Livilla's body.


Pliny Humanus srich a few rebellious hair up, which could not bind with the top. When stroking her neck, Livilla shuddered in pleasure and she shivered with excitement. They overcame the desire, the hands, which she held folded over her head to let slide down over her breasts to shame. The nipples of the full breasts were unusually hard and firm. Of all the unnoticed, swelled, hidden under her lush pubic hair, the clitoris to. The institution sent in their signals, commands, which they did not dare to follow. The suppression, led to even more horny and wet pussy gave off a few drops, which sparkled like spring thaw on the black Mösenhaar. Pliny Humanus could not resist the temptation to lift the heavy breasts and weigh in his strong hands. So a clean Prachtweib, that was something else, as the unkempt, smelly, dressed in skins, barbaric German girl of the last campaign.


The hair of the Livilla verströmeten an irresistible scent, as his mouth to her ear approached. At the same time he enjoyed the delicacy and softness of her breasts.


"A stool!" Commanded Pliny Humanus.


It was an instant passed. The control of the upper body of Livilla was completed without Pliny found a Sklavenmal. He was relieved, because he was very sorry to have to crucify this Prachtweib. That was the usual punishment for runaway slaves. He wanted to possess this woman. However, his sense of duty commanded him thoroughly continue the inspection.


At a sign out Livilla ascended the stool and began to spin again. It would have been beneath the dignity of Principalis a Roman Legion, to bow down.


Pliny stroked the taut buttocks, squeezing them apart and looked into the exposed anus of Livilla. Then he turned it on and examined her pussy, while striking out the hair and put apart. Nowhere is the dreaded Sklavenmal was discovered. Pliny was relieved. With surprise he noticed the humidity of Livilla's pussy as the drops wetted his fingers. In a casual movement he touched her clit and Livilla burst from a pleasurable sigh. Thus Pliny was clear that Livilla was just as horny as he.


"Down come!" He commanded in a firm tone.


"I order you to report you tonight at the guard the barracks!"


"Yes sir." Breathed Livilla.


"Get dressed and go, I have to continue in control."


Ignoring the Gaffer to Livilla dressed and left the place in lustful excitement. Your thoughts focused on the Principalis, his strong hands and what was hidden under his leather apron. She knew she had found a man. The stunned gawkers on the street, they could pass unmolested.

The bar-room had emptied, only in a corner crouched fearfully two crouching figures.


"You there, come here!" Barked Pliny, strive to continue to come out of the tavern. A visit to the spa finally stood on so that he could in the evening fresh, relaxed and fragrant meet the Livilla widow. The anticipation of her soft flesh aroused the desire to get away here. The two still investigating and the case would be settled. Again a false information of a greedy informer. These kinds spy information has been Well, yes only rewarded with success. In case of wrong information there was ever a flogging or caning for the shabby creatures. "The biggest scoundrel in the whole country, is and remains the informer." Pliny thought.


Well, he was in a good mood and wanted to bring the latest research quickly across the stage.


The two figures were approached with heads bowed to the table.


Pliny saw two young people. A man, so maybe early twenties and a younger girl. Apparently scared she clung at hand. They did not look Italic or latinisch. The boy could well have come from beyond the Alps, while the girl made a North African feel. Perhaps an Egyptian.


In the background of the host Claudius Palo was heard. "These are strange gentleman., You have not paid for food and drink."


"Shut up when I do an investigation. Understand?" Pliny barked at the shabby host.


"So you two, name, whence and whither?"


The young people were silent, as if they do not understand him. He still spoke loud and clear. With a wave of Pliny under tied a stick bat Guardsman. He was just voted to be in a good mood for such violence and extremely mild.


He tried it with a smattering of Coptic, which he had in Egypt from his time in memory.


The girl replied on Coptic ". Patra Together with my husband, on the way to Egypt."


Pliny had to laugh. On the way to Egypt. How could this have-nots wanted to get across the sea? But then darkened his mood. He got the first inkling that the two who wanted slaves of the estate were Pisoll.


With a gesture he made it clear that the two should move out. They understood and took off their tunics. Next they had nothing on his body, only old sandals.


Before Pliny was a young man, well built, strong with a wide chest, on which no hair grew. The blond hair around his big drooping and uncircumcised penis were as tender and fluffy as those in the face. His skin was white, on the back scarred Streimen a flagellation. The young man had thus already been in contact with the Roman justice.


The girl was of wonderful regularity, slightly smaller as her companion. The body had the outline of an hourglass, the skin was ruddy, and of indescribable youthful tenderness. The breasts, although large, were taut from like the pyramids of the Pharaohs, topped by upright magnificent nipples on small dark brown nipples. Their shame was carefully depilated as he knew it from the courtesans of Alexandria. A being created, and obviously intended to provide sexual services.


Emblazoned on the right upper arm of the boy, bright red, a bunch of grapes. The character of the estate Pisoll. On his neck there was a slight difference in color of the skin was noticed. The sign that a collar prevented here because the sun to color the pale skin.


The buttocks of the girl also graced the grape. White Hades why the identification of slaves is not standardized? wondered Pliny. Again and again in his soldier's life Various kinds of markings came before him. Burn marks or scars in the most diverse parts of the body. Sometimes different if the slave had changed their owners. Scars of iron neck, wrist or ankle cuffs, it could also often seen with a sure eye runaway slaves.


Pliny had caught the sought Sklaben. When thoughts on the upcoming formalities, his good mood darkened visibly. While he was pleased to sexual climaxes with Livilla, was the discovery of a slave couple, their life as good as over. He and his legionaries could not escape the captured slaves. They were discovered, captured, and thus condemned so young, painfully die on the cross. He would be inclined to let themselves escape lovers apparently. But those who help slaves to escape, threatened the same punishment as the fugitive slaves.


Pliny suppressed his sympathy and comforted by the fact that the slaves indebted their own destiny, to every slave is aware of the penalty for escape.


"Dressed, captivate, dissipate," were his brief instructions that both the captured slaves, and the legionaries followed assiduously.


"But sir, the people have food and drink not yet paid." Objected the host.


"Shut up! You idiot! Do not you see that those who have no money? Do you think that I aufkomme it? Do not you know what the penalty is to support fugitive slaves?"


"I really did not know ..."


"Snout, or we take you the same!"


According to Klein, the host hid behind the counter.


"March!" Commanded Pliny and the group began to move through a lane gaping mob.
 
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